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Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

* Funny how relatively few PIM Howe got, though. From his rep, I'd have expected more just from fights.
His rep actually kept the number of fights down. Few wanted to tangle with him...
Maybe somebody like the Elias Sports Bureau has already done this, but if not, I think it'd be interesting for someone with access to all the old box scores to go back and see how many Gordie Howe Hat Tricks he actually had over the course of his career.

Edit to add: Of course someone has already done this. Only twice, according to the CBC.
 
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Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

Maybe somebody like the Elias Sports Bureau has already done this, but if not, I think it'd be interesting for someone with access to all the old box scores to go back and see how many Gordie Howe Hat Tricks he actually had over the course of his career.

Once when he was playing for the Houston Aeros (at age 47) somebody had Mark Howe (age 16) down on the ice. Gordie skated over and suggested the guy let Mark up. When his request went unfulfilled, Gordie put his fingers in the guy's nostrils and pulled him up off the kid! Rule Number 1: don't mess with Gordie Howe (or his kid), period.

Howe, like Gretzky, made it look nearly effortless. Like a champion chess player several moves ahead of everybody else.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

It depends on what you mean by "special." In the early part of his career, Mikita was as likely to shove his stick up your azz as look at you. Somewhere along the line he changed his outlook and actually won the Lady Byng. All of the guys you named were special, of course, but Bobby Hull brought something to the party that set him apart.

Hull had two seemingly contradictory aspects to his game. He was the fastest skater of his day--certainly one of the fastest skaters ever. And he had the heaviest shot: 120mph slapper, 105 mph wrister. Also among the most powerful shots of all time. Couple that with matinee idol looks and the flowing blond hair (of which there is much less these days) and you had something special. Has anybody else been the fastest skater and had the heaviest shot? I can't think of anybody.

The sight of Hull scooping up the puck behind his net and racing up the ice at full speed, shedding checkers like Ralphie, the Colorado buffalo, was something to see. The crowds (Chicago or anywhere else) would let out a sustained "oooooh" as he zoomed toward the far blue line, then an "aahhh" when he let loose with a shot. Goalies admitted they were afraid of him because they couldn't see his slapper coming. One goalie of the day told Sport Magazine that Hull once took an unscreened slapper from the blue line, he brought his glove up to make the catch, and it hit him IN THE BACK OF THE GLOVE! Already coming out.

Howe was in a league apart and a guy who would rip your heart out. And he wouldn't necessarily respond immediately. He'd wait, skate by your bench and butt end you. A nasty piece of work. But look at that career.

Hull, on the other hand, often said he couldn't score from the penalty box. And he was routinely double teamed for most of his career. Another guy on the ice with him whose sole job was to follow Bobby around, try to deny him the puck, then hook, hold and trip him when he did get it. The Red Wings gave that job to the appropriately named Brian "busher" Watson. Hull rarely got into fights, but when he did it was like a John Wayne movie, with guys flying out of the barroom windows. On one memorable occasion Hull had had enough of Watson and just kayoed him, dragged him half conscious to the Wings box, dropped him off like a bag of mail, then took his seat in the Blackhawk box. He once kayoed John Ferguson of the Canadiens, a guy known as the "heavyweight champion of the NHL." Hull had broken his jaw somehow, and the first chance he got, Ferguson applied an elbow. Then his lights went out.

The guys you mentioned were better players, better on defense, who had mastered all of the nuances of the game. But Bobby Hull wasn't about nuance. He was about skating like the wind and firing that howitzer somewhere in your general direction. Not only was he the most popular player in the league by a mile (remember, only 6 teams) he was the face of the NHL, the one guy casual fans would know in non-NHL cities.

One year the Hawks were out of the playoffs and NBC (?) hired Bobby to do commentary. As the network came out of a break, the camera followed Bobby in the Boston Garden as he was making his way back to the press box. And the Boston fans were giving him a standing O. Oh yeah, he was way special.

Great analysis OP --- these younguns don't know what they missed not seeing the old 6-team NHL. Those guys were tougher than nails, especially the goalies.

I talked to Johnny Bower on a number of occasions -- he pretty much confirmed what you wrote about the fear of goalies back then.

As for Hull, I saw him at the 2000 All Star game in Toronto. During a media scrum he absolutely ripped into a reporter who asked him a smart-arse question about his off-ice issues.

Hull looked like he was ready to pummel the scribe and dump him somewhere like he did to "Bugsy" Watson. :eek: The rest of us took the cue and stuck to talking hockey with the Jet! ;)
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

One of the best things about being in the DC hockey market -- ok, the only good thing about being in the DC hockey market -- is being able to watch Ovechkin 50-60 times a year. He's insanely entertaining.

That said, I'd managed to ignore Crosby up until the Olympics, but he was fun to watch there. I agree the media has crawled up his caboose to build a nest, but that's just them and the league trading back rubs to sell pork and beans. It was the same with Orr, Espo, Lafleur, Gretz, Mario, Bourque, Forsberg... there's always That Guy the league builds its image around and god help you if you say one word askance. Seems to me Crosby's just the latest, and I hope Taveras will be the next.

Taveras has been night and day with the Isles this year. Very similar to Stamkos' first with the Lightning and now look what he's doing.

Stamkos and Taveras are the next "it" players but Ovechkin and Crosby are going to dominate for much of Stamkos and Taveras' careers.

The next "It" player is 10 years old right now and hopefully he's skating on a pond in Minnesota or the Northeast right now.:cool:
 
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Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

I don't see how Drew Doughty doesn't become the next "it" defenseman.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

Great analysis OP --- these younguns don't know what they missed not seeing the old 6-team NHL. Those guys were tougher than nails, especially the goalies.

I talked to Johnny Bower on a number of occasions -- he pretty much confirmed what you wrote about the fear of goalies back then.

As for Hull, I saw him at the 2000 All Star game in Toronto. During a media scrum he absolutely ripped into a reporter who asked him a smart-arse question about his off-ice issues.

Hull looked like he was ready to pummel the scribe and dump him somewhere like he did to "Bugsy" Watson. :eek: The rest of us took the cue and stuck to talking hockey with the Jet! ;)

The old Chicago Stadium officially held something like 17K, but in the box scores in the paper, they'd just estimate 20K. 20,000 people and about two water fountains! But the Hawks--two of the greatest stars ever, Hull and Mikita. And a goalie named Glenn Hall. What was his record for consecutive starts, 500 some? Unbelievable. He was customarily introduced in the Stadium as "Mr. Goalie." One year somebody beefed, and the NHL told 'em to cut it out during the Playoffs. They also had a defensive pair that skated together for many years: Pierre Pilot (the smalled d-man in the NHL) and Elmer "Moose" Vasko (the biggest d-man). You can't make this stuff up.

The year that Toronto's "Big M" made a run at the 50 goal record (he wound up with 47, IIRC) he had only about six goals against the Hawks because Eric "Elbows" Nesterenko was on him like a cheap suit. Elbows played Rob Lowe's father in Youngblood and wasn't a goon like Bryan Watson, he had a 200 goal career.

In that "legends of hockey" video I mentioned earlier, Johnny Bower said anyone who claimed to be able to see Hull's slapper was "talking through his hat." In a Stanley Cup game against the Red Wings once, Detroit started a backup goalie (very rare in those days). At one point, Hull fired a wicked slapper across the kid's body and he stuck out his glove to make the save. The velocity of the shot took the glove into the cage and tore off two of the kid's fingernails. His hand looked like somebody had been at it with a hammer. It took a brave man to go down to block one of those dudes, I'll tell you.
 
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Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

I can't give Pio rep right now, so I'd like to publicly thank him for the great reminiscences! :)
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

Pio,

Love the stories. Have any good reads to recommend of a similar vein?

Wish I did. There had to have been a quikie cut n paste Hull book or Mikita book (maybe several of them) but I don't recall. In Chicago we got to see a lot of Hawks games because ALL road games were on WGN-TV.

One year, Hawks management decided it wouold be a good idea to put Stanley Cup road games on pay TV in the Stadium. I was there for the last regular season game, 20K people screaming "Norris is a fink" (the owner). They got a couple of hundred for the first road game. Fewer than that for the second game. And the rest of the roadies were back on WGN. Power to the people.

One last annecdote. The people who owned the Stadium also owned the ice show with the great Sonja Henie (sp). And the organist at the Stadium (Al Melgard) wrote a pretty little tune called "My Vision," for Sonja. The Stadium Organ was a beast (videos on You Tube) six manuals and 883 stops.
Anyway, Melgard customarily played "My Vision" sometime during a hockey game. I was there the night it was announceed that Sonja had passed away. And Melgard played "My Vision" one last time in a darkened arena with a spotlight at center ice. I'm choking up writing this.
 
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Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

Stupid question:

Why is Crosby hated so much more than Ovechkin?

I'm not saying it isn't warranted; just asking.


For me, It's the same reason I dislike Tiger Woods and Danica Patrick. No matter what they are constantly be shoved down your throat. I'm just sick of hearing about them. I just get sick of hearing Crosby is the best player in the NHL when an argument can be made that he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Not to mention Crosby is such a weenie pants.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

For me, It's the same reason I dislike Tiger Woods and Danica Patrick. No matter what they are constantly be shoved down your throat. I'm just sick of hearing about them. I just get sick of hearing Crosby is the best player in the NHL when an argument can be made that he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Not to mention Crosby is such a weenie pants.

IMO, I hate being told that i have to like somebody without any other reason given. I mean, geez, Barbara Walters had an unreasonably fawning interview when he turned pro proclaiming him god upon high before he won a single tournament.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

IMO, I hate being told that i have to like somebody without any other reason given. I mean, geez, Barbara Walters had an unreasonably fawning interview when he turned pro proclaiming him god upon high before he won a single tournament.

JFC!!

this isn't like a michelle wie situation! tiger had won an unprecedented SIX straight usga titles (his available 'super bowls') in the run up to his becoming a professional.

-and Sid has won a stanley cup. took another team to a cup finals before losing to a very good team from Det. he's won the scoring title as a teenager. he's been an mvp (i know, voice - not reading). he's won a gold medal in the olympics (and scored the gwg in ot!). and he's still only 22 yo.

the praise both of them got, and get, for their play is warranted.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

IMO, I hate being told that i have to like somebody without any other reason given. I mean, geez, Barbara Walters had an unreasonably fawning interview when he turned pro proclaiming him god upon high before he won a single tournament.

Are you kidding me? Tiger was hyped, yes - but deservedly so. And as far as golf goes, he's lived up to the hype, too. That's rare.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

For me, It's the same reason I dislike Tiger Woods and Danica Patrick. No matter what they are constantly be shoved down your throat. I'm just sick of hearing about them. I just get sick of hearing Crosby is the best player in the NHL when an argument can be made that he isn't even the best player on his own team.

Not to mention Crosby is such a weenie pants.

I understand your point, but Danica Patrick is a work in progress while Woods is on a plane by himself. She's evidently a good driver but hasn't shown yet that she's among the best. Maybe someday she'll win Indy but so far hasn't. Woods, on the other hand, has won everything there is to win, repeatedly. When he had his little press announcement the other day it was covered live in the same way the media would cover announcing the name of the grassy knoll shooter. He had broken no laws, yet this announcement was treated world wide as bona fide news. I can't imagine any other private citizen in a similar situation being treated that way.

I think it was ABC that began this business of building up selected athletes as the greatest thing since sliced bread. They did it with Ali (politics a major part of it, of course, the war, stripping him of his title, his refusal to be inducted, "I ain't got nothing against no Viet Congs," with Cosell lending his considerable reputation to the project. Next on their list was Ray Leonard.
I listened to the first Leonard/Duran fight in Houston. And the local radio guy was repeating the blow by blow descriptions from an AP reporter at ringside. Duran was pounding Leonard, round after round, and the AP guy's analysis reflected that reality. It finally got so bad for the dude in Houston he said "I don't believe it." Really? From your vantage point a thousand miles away? With no video? This clown had been completely taken in by ABC's efforts to portray Leonard as invincible and just coudn't believe that anyone could mess up his hairdo.

Whatever his shortcomings as a person, Tiger Woods is one of the few figures who has delivered, has, in fact, exceeded the hype.
 
Re: Part VI of the XXI Winter Olympiad: USA!! USA!! USA!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHnLYOviXA



Don't mean to come across as obsessed. But here's a fight sequence from Hull's days in the WHA. Mostly it's an ordinary dust up in which Bobby pounds the snot out of Reggie Fleming. But in the first few seconds watch the guy who has both arms wrapped around Hull. Bobby literally kayos him with an elbow to the jaw and leaves the dude face down on the ice. As I posted earlier, it was not a good idea to cross the line with Bobby. You could get badly hurt.
 
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