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Favorite US Military General?

Re: Favorite US Military General?

Old Pio said:
Yes, but despite his faults he managed to turn Lee into his houseboy. Again, I recommend J.F.C. Fuller's "Grant and Lee." Some of the Lee hagiography melts away. Grant apparantly wasn't much good at anything except commanding an army in the field. But at the time, that was a skill in great demand.
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Grant more or less realized that the North had more people and resources than the South, and that to win they had to throw them towards Richmond until it worked. Which may not seem like the most sophisticated strategy, but it sure beat every previous general's plan of acting so cautious that it took them two years to get any real win in the east. So it got results.

What was it they called General McClellan? The Virginia Creeper? Grant did no creeping.
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McClellan being one of those generals more happy with preening and waiting than actual doing anything. I think we can all agree that the wrong answer to this thread would definitely be McClellan.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

I think Lee is a little over-rated. He had 2 total studs working under him, Jackson and Stuart, and he deligated to and relied on them quite a bit. Jackson being killed was a huge blow to him. Lee didn't have Stuart @ Gettysburg for the time up to the battle or during the first 2 days, and it cost him. Lee was constantly lamenting Stuarts absence @ Gettysburg. Lee also often times wrote ambigous orders for his Generals. Jackson seemed to always interpet the orders as Lee would have wanted, while other Generals struggled with the ambuguity of the orders. This is very apparent @ Gettysurg. (I am currently reading "Gettysurg".)
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Old Pio said:
Exactly. Other countries call these guys Field Marshalls, and for that reason, we know exactly what they're all about. Eisenhower brought certain skills to the table (mostly tolerating Montgomery), but he probably wouldn't have been a great field commander. MacArthur seemed to be able to do both. Remember, he went against all the "best military advice" and master minded the landings at Inchon--thought to be impossible. Plus he was shogun of Japan who successfully helped them transition from militarism to democracy.
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Unfortunately he also wanted to nuke Beijing to end the Korean War. Definitely un-PC.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Timothy A said:
I think Lee is a little over-rated. He had 2 total studs working under him, Jackson and Stuart, and he deligated to and relied on them quite a bit. Jackson being killed was a huge blow to him. Lee didn't have Stuart @ Gettysburg for the time up to the battle or during the first 2 days, and it cost him. Lee was constantly lamenting Stuarts absence @ Gettysburg. Lee also often times wrote ambigous orders for his Generals. Jackson seemed to always interpet the orders as Lee would have wanted, while other Generals struggled with the ambuguity of the orders. This is very apparent @ Gettysurg. (I am currently reading "Gettysurg".)
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The whole tide of battle at Gettysburg turned on the phrase "if practicable." Lee said to "Take Cemetery Hill, if practicable." What he meant was "Take that damm hill" but what General Ewell heard was, "Take that hill if you feel like it" and he didn't feel like it.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Hopkinja said:
Unfortunately he also wanted to nuke Beijing to end the Korean War. Definitely un-PC.
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Definitely off the rails a bit at the end, no doubt. There's a famous picture of MacArthur and Ike (when Ike was his adjutant or something) MacArthur's wearing an enormous amount of ribbons. Ike appears to have his "tent neatness" and "good conduct" awards and not much else. William Manchester's book "American Caeser" gives a good portrait of the guy. Huge ego? Of course. Prima Donna? In spades. One of the most remarkable military men we've ever produced? Absolutely.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Hopkinja said:
Unfortunately he also wanted to nuke Beijing to end the Korean War. Definitely un-PC.
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Read someplace years ago that if we had told Mao, etc. that we had no designs on China and were stopping @ the Yalu, the PRC probably would have stayed out and the Korean Conflict would have been over by Christmas.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

joecct said:
Read someplace years ago that if we had told Mao, etc. that we had no designs on China and were stopping @ the Yalu, the PRC probably would have stayed out and the Korean Conflict would have been over by Christmas.
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Keep in mind that Mao supported, and in turn got a lot of support from, United States sources during World War II - the People's Republic of China and the Soviet Union were never exactly good friends. With that in mind, Mao might have decided to abide by the United Nations' wishes, try to gain a seat at the UN table to oppose the USSR, and pour influence into a united Korea to remove it as a threat.

On the other hand, by 1950 China had a huge army with nowhere to go but across to Taiwan or down the Korean peninsula. Meanwhile, the United States had plenty of leaders like MacArthur that would have found any excuse to plow right through the Yalu on their ways to Beijing, Vladivostok and eventually Moscow.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Priceless said:
The whole tide of battle at Gettysburg turned on the phrase "if practicable." Lee said to "Take Cemetery Hill, if practicable." What he meant was "Take that damm hill" but what General Ewell heard was, "Take that hill if you feel like it" and he didn't feel like it.
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That is exactly right. If Stonewall was there's he'd have taken the **** hill. He wasn't, and that was the official beginning of the end.
 
Timothy A said:
That is exactly right. If Stonewall was there's he'd have taken the **** hill. He wasn't, and that was the official beginning of the end.
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Even more importantly, Jackson may have convinced Lee to not even fight at Gettysburg. Confederates move towards DC, Philly, or Baltimore, threatening to cut off DC. Force the union army to engage on far less adventagious terrain then that at Gettysburg and the war may have ended in spite of the events in the west.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Almington said:
Even more importantly, Jackson may have convinced Lee to not even fight at Gettysburg. Confederates move towards DC, Philly, or Baltimore, threatening to cut off DC. Force the union army to engage on far less adventagious terrain then that at Gettysburg and the war may have ended in spite of the events in the west.
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Neither side was deliberately aiming for Gettysburg - the Confederacy had picked Cashtown, PA for an engagement, and the Union had their own preferred location closer to Hanover (I forget where.) They ended up in Gettysburg because their flanks happened to meet there.
 
Beer Pong Horn said:
Neither side was deliberately aiming for Gettysburg - the Confederacy had picked Cashtown, PA for an engagement, and the Union had their own preferred location closer to Hanover (I forget where.) They ended up in Gettysburg because their flanks happened to meet there.
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Right. I know Lee wasn't thrilled with where they ended up. He could see that the Union had the better ground, and knew that Meade would know what he was going to throw at him.
 
Beer Pong Horn said:
Neither side was deliberately aiming for Gettysburg - the Confederacy had picked Cashtown, PA for an engagement, and the Union had their own preferred location closer to Hanover (I forget where.) They ended up in Gettysburg because their flanks happened to meet there.
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The major battle didn't have to happed at Gettysburg.

Day 1 would have happened regardless but it was little more than a fierce skermish, but Lee could have made a march towards one of the northern cities the union would have been forced to engage in battle on ground the confederates would have been able to choose and the defensive was a far stronger position to have during the war given the tactics and technology employed.

Gettysburg was at best going to be another strategic draw for the confederacy even if they had carried the field. After day 2 the Confederates would have been in no position to press any advantage given the resources they used in the battle.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

I think Lee was highly upset that JEB Stuart got out of touch with him and Lee was groping blind according to historian Shelby Foote. Lee relied greatly on Stuart and I think not having his intel cost him at Gettysburg.
 
Re: Favorite US Military General?

Timothy A said:
That is exactly right. If Stonewall was there's he'd have taken the **** hill. He wasn't, and that was the official beginning of the end.
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Can you, in your wildest imagination, see Patton issuing an order with the words 'if practicable" in it? Or Rommel? Or MacArthur? Or any great field commander, for that matter?
 
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