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BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

A few folks here have said that BC should try to schedule some western teams during the regular season. I think that's a good idea. But they did sweep Minnesota-Duluth in two games at Conte back in October, 4-1 and 4-2. But no one has mentioned that here. UMD is a powerhouse too, and has 5 NCAA titles to their name (Minnesota now has 6, and Wisconsin 4.) I assume it was a down year for UMD since no one mentioned them in the context of BC needing to schedule western talent.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

UMD had a off year, actually have not been ranked for a few years. They improved as year went on but were very weak in Oct, new coach, adjustments to systems etc etc.

pigglegg said:
A few folks here have said that BC should try to schedule some western teams during the regular season. I think that's a good idea. But they did sweep Minnesota-Duluth in two games at Conte back in October, 4-1 and 4-2. But no one has mentioned that here. UMD is a powerhouse too, and has 5 NCAA titles to their name (Minnesota now has 6, and Wisconsin 4.) I assume it was a down year for UMD since no one mentioned them in the context of BC needing to schedule western talent.
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Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

TonyTheTiger20 said:
outside of Minnesota and Wisconsin, there's a case to be made that BC is arguably the most successful women's hockey program in the country over the last 5-10 years or so.
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How quickly we forget and throw a program under the bus...BC's been a very good team for a few years but you might want to brush up on your facts.

UMD: in the last 10 ten years...

NCAA Playoff Appearances: 6 (06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11)

Frozen Four Appearances: 4 (07, 08, 09, 10)

Frozen Four Championship Game Appearances: 2 (08, 10)

Frozen Four Championship Game Wins: 2 (08, 10)

They've also been to the Frozen Four a total of 7 times...advanced to the Championship Game 6 times and won 5 out of those 6 Frozen Four Championship Games...(although over a longer span than 10 years)...

And until yesterday, no team had won more Frozen Four Championships than UMD.

So, please..."the facts ma'am, just the facts."

http://umdbulldogs.com/sports/2013/8/30/WHK-Postseason.aspx?path=whockey
 
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Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

bluffrinkrat said:
Carpenter and Skarupa were on the ice a heckuva lot and appeared gassed by the 3rd period.
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Other than a brief mention of Carpenter's name by wwhyte you are the only poster who has mentioned her and this other than me.

But I mentioned yesterday after the first period that she didn't look right...that I thought she had been in the kitchen making cocktails...in other words, that she had been virtually invisible in the first period and that she needed to make her presence known.

I'm very surprised that until today no one else has even mentioned her name.

Her body language didn't instill confidence. Maybe she was ill.

Am I the only one who thinks that her tank looked empty and that she looked to be functioning on fumes in the first period?...never mind the rest of the game?
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Sorry but that means they have not had success in the past 5 years, NCAA career is only 4 …………….what have yo done for me lately…….reason Shannnon Miller is now unemployed. Just stating the facts !
Blackbeard said:
How quickly we forget and throw a program under the bus...BC's been a very good team for a few years but you might want to brush up on your facts.

UMD: in the last 10 ten years...

NCAA Playoff Appearances: 6 (06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11)

Frozen Four Appearances: 4 (07, 08, 09, 10)

Frozen Four Championship Game Appearances: 2 (08, 10)

Frozen Four Championship Game Wins: 2 (08, 10)

They've also been to the Frozen Four a total of 7 times...advanced to the Championship Game 6 times and won 5 out of those 6 Frozen Four Championship Games...(although over a longer span than 10 years)...

And until yesterday, no team had won more Frozen Four Championships than UMD.

So, please..."the facts ma'am, just the facts."

http://umdbulldogs.com/sports/2013/8/30/WHK-Postseason.aspx?path=whockey
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Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Blackbeard said:
You need to read T-Cubed's post again.
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I did, but I'm not sure you did. He said that you can ". . . make a case . . ." that BC has been the third most successful program over the last ten years, not they clearly have been. That is in no way throwing UMD under the bus, as you claimed. It's pretty easy to see what criterion someone might, quite legitimately, use to put BC ahead of the Bulldogs: that all of UMD's success over the last ten years (which, for what it's worth, no longer includes 2006) was in the first half of that stretch. If you value consistency, BC looks like a much better pick, with eight NCAA invites and five Frozen Four's spread fairly evenly over the whole period. If you prefer the better peak, then it's clearly UMD. BC has won 23 more games over those ten years than UMD has, if you want to look beyond just counting NCAA tournament games.

I'm inclined to take BC over UMD, because I do value entire seasons rather than just the ending, but it's easy to see how someone could go the other way.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

After Minnesota won the 2005 FF, it went six years without winning another tournament, including WCHA. The Gophers had some very good teams in that time, won a couple of season titles, made three Frozen Fours, but they always had an eventual NCAA champ in their league that would come along in the postseason and beat them when it counted most. Most of these Minnesota teams were coached by Brad Frost; the last time in that stretch that UM was knocked out of an NCAA Tournament it was by a BC team coached by Katie somebody. The final score was 4-1, and it really wasn't nearly that close. After that game, it would have been hard to make a case that Frost was out coaching anyone from BC.

There's a lot to be said for belief. At some point during the next season, Minnesota players started to believe that not only could they beat the best team in the country, maybe they were that team. I think they've believed it ever since. Has it always been true? Who knows, but I think they came to this Frozen Four believing they were the best team and were intent on proving it. The Badgers believed they were the best. The Eagles believed they were the best. Who was right? Maybe they all were. The line between winning and losing can be tiny. But there is a line, and for years the Gophers looked across it to see Jessie Vetter, Erika Lawler, Emanuelle Blais, or Meghan Duggan celebrating. Maybe it is more bounces and breaks than anything. But if it isn't, I'd say the biggest single advantage that Minnesota had over Wisconsin and BC was that its players had zero doubt that they could win. Maybe the other teams didn't have any doubt either, but after losing to UM in its three previous NCAA tourneys, Wisconsin must have had a flashback when the Gophers scored early in the 1st and 3rd periods.

As for Crowley, she goes 40-1, and suddenly, she can't coach. Tough crowd. I've never been that perfect, so I envy those of you who are.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Eeyore said:
I did, but I'm not sure you did. He said that you can ". . . make a case . . ." that BC has been the third most successful program over the last ten years, not they clearly have been. That is in no way throwing UMD under the bus, as you claimed. It's pretty easy to see what criterion someone might, quite legitimately, use to put BC ahead of the Bulldogs: that all of UMD's success over the last ten years (which, for what it's worth, no longer includes 2006) was in the first half of that stretch. If you value consistency, BC looks like a much better pick, with eight NCAA invites and five Frozen Four's spread fairly evenly over the whole period. If you prefer the better peak, then it's clearly UMD. BC has won 23 more games over those ten years than UMD has, if you want to look beyond just counting NCAA tournament games.

I'm inclined to take BC over UMD, because I do value entire seasons rather than just the ending, but it's easy to see how someone could go the other way.
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Of course you place a value on a context that fits your argument, season over ending, per say. Not to mention you are a fan of the losing team. So lets say you're a Buffalo Bills fan because they had such a great team and are remembered for their 4 super bowl victories, right? Hmmmmmm...
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Congrats BC on a historic and awesome season. Sorry it did not work out, but anyone who knows sports knows what an incredible season you had.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Eeyore said:
I did, but I'm not sure you did. He said that you can ". . . make a case . . ." that BC has been the third most successful program over the last ten years, not they clearly have been. That is in no way throwing UMD under the bus, as you claimed. It's pretty easy to see what criterion someone might, quite legitimately, use to put BC ahead of the Bulldogs: that all of UMD's success over the last ten years (which, for what it's worth, no longer includes 2006) was in the first half of that stretch. If you value consistency, BC looks like a much better pick, with eight NCAA invites and five Frozen Four's spread fairly evenly over the whole period. If you prefer the better peak, then it's clearly UMD. BC has won 23 more games over those ten years than UMD has, if you want to look beyond just counting NCAA tournament games.

I'm inclined to take BC over UMD, because I do value entire seasons rather than just the ending, but it's easy to see how someone could go the other way.
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Thank you -- all of this sums it up.

As for players she's "coached up" that have had substantial improvement over four years... I mean, geez, are you kidding, I can probably name one or two players a year that made an upperclassman jump. Let's just start and end the list with Meghan Grieves; I'm not going through the last decade of rosters to prove a point. But even aside from that, recruiting is a major part of her job description. I always thought the argument of "She's get gets great recruits therefore she can't coach" was one that made no sense.

There have been legitimate criticisms of Kinger in the past but this year was an extraordinarily impressive coaching job. I don't know how you can possibly say otherwise.

She has people who will always dislike her apparently and it just took a lot longer for the loss to show up to open the door this year I guess.

bceaglesalum, it's very hard having this debate with you because based on your username and the date you joined USCHO, I get the feeling that you are a player that was on the team while I was a student. If that's the case then you're probably someone I like and admire and possibly even know decently well, and as such I feel uncomfortable saying that your comments give the impression of having an axe to grind with your former coach, but that's what your posts come across as.

You can boil down BC's lack of a championship this year to three reasons: (1) is that we had a weak schedule thanks to a crap conference and an out of conference schedule consisting of SLU, Harvard, Cornell, and Duluth, all of whom had uncharacteristic down years at the exact same time, preventing us from being truly battle tested against top competition, and (2) the fact that this is hockey and $#!+ happens, and (3) please take a look at Minnesota's roster, if you thought BC should have been anything more than a slight favorite going into this game (and that's with the most optimistic semi-rational viewpoint possible) based on their 40-0-0 record, then you just aren't right.

I don't know of a single BC fan that thought this game was any better than a coin flip for BC.

Maybe the coach isn't the the reason they lost that one game. Sometimes you just get beat and looking for excuses like "the coach panicked by playing her best players" or "the ice was too wide" is a fool's errand.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

DeadEnd65 said:
Of course you place a value on a context that fits your argument
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Just a comment -- there's no argument over whether or not BC is the 3rd best team of the last 5-10 years. The argument is that "Kinger is probably not a bad coach," with the supporting evidence being "one could present a reasonable argument that BC could be the best team of the past 5-10 years."
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

EastFan1 said:
I didn't watch the game but saw the boxscore and some tweets. Didn't BC hit a couple pipes and weren't the shots pretty even? This thread makes it sound like BC couldn't compete.
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I think we hit 3 total. One in particular, I forget who it was, hit a crossbar on one hell of a little flipped puck over Leveille's shoulder early in the game... I think it was Newkirk.

I personally thought the game was 50/50 all the way, with each team having a similar amount of play going their way over the course of the game (Gophers had the first 10 minutes, then BC had the next 10 minutes, then roll a die the rest of the way), but the Gophers won somewhat handily on the part of the scoreboard that mattered in the end so I haven't bothered to argue otherwise. But I thought the two teams were remarkably similar both in talent level and and style of play. If they played that game 10 times BC would have won 5. Anyone here is free to disagree with me but I just don't have the leftover emotion from this weekend to argue with you about it. If you don't agree with me, fine, you win.

My other hot take I've been keeping to myself is I thought Burt was significantly better than Leveille. Leveille did improve as the game went on and had some tremendous saves, but I have not seen a goalie keep a game a shutout for so long giving up as many rebounds as she did. If only BC could get a couple sticks on them... but they didn't. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a party it would have been in Chestnut Hill last night.
 
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Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

ne7minder said:
So Bert was much superior to Leville and the two teams were even and would split a 10 game series . . . sorry but that makes no sense given the outcome. You can believe one or the other but you can't defend the two together
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Like I said. You win.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

TonyTheTiger20 said:
Thank you -- all of this sums it up.
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If you would have said arguably the most improved women's hockey program in the country over the last 5-10 years or so, I'd say you have a strong case. But that is different than making a case for one of the 3 most successful teams during that same period. Some people might define success as waking up in the morning but I think that most would ultimately need to see the hardware to give the word "success" any real credibility.

If your time frame had been the last few years...no argument from me.

UMD has been down on their luck, to say the least, in the last few years but because they are not presently in the mix you can't just arbitrarily and conveniently erase the last "5-10 or so" (and "or so" might mean 11, 12, 13 or 14yrs?) record book years from your mind and make such a sweeping statement as you made without expecting to be challenged on it with facts and the supporting hardware.

As an aside, I also have found it interesting that UMD before or since their recent slide never seem to shy away from playing the best teams in the east... BC twice that I can recall including earlier this year, BU, UNH when they were experiencing better days. Brad Frost admitted in an interview I read last week the dilemma that WCHA teams seem to have in this regard every year, implying that it is probably a better strategy to avoid such matchups because of the damage they can cause a team in the rankings late in the season. Pretty sad when you have to be thinking about avoiding decent competition because of what it might do to your chances near the end of the season.

I like UMD's attitude...play the best teams you can as often as you can in the annual out of conference games...which they seem to have made a good effort to do...anything less is disingenuous.

(Forgot to mention...very good articles you penned during the tournament...very enjoyable, especially with the looped highlight video clips attached).
 
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Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Blackbeard said:
Some people might define success as waking up in the morning but I think that most would ultimately need to see the hardware to give the word "success" any real credibility.
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A majority of the people who have weighed in on this disagree with you, which I suggest means that, at least, this is much less self-evident than you seem to think. As much as there is a claim that you have to have won championships to be considered one of the three best teams of the last ten years, it's also the case that "the last ten years" at least implies that you have been good across that period of time, and UMD simply hasn't. It's been six years since they won a single game in the NCAA tournament, and five since they've even been in it. They haven't finished higher than 4th in their own conference in five years. UMD fails any test of consistency at least as badly as BC fails any test of hardware.

UMD has been down on their luck, to say the least, in the last few years but because they are not presently in the mix you can't just arbitrarily and conveniently erase the last "5-10 or so" (and "or so" might mean 11, 12, 13 or 14yrs?) record book years from your mind and make such a sweeping statement as you made without expecting to be challenged on it with facts and the supporting hardware.
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Again, what he said wasn't all that sweeping; that's just your imagination at work. A rebuttal was fine; your incredulity is ridiculous.
 
Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Blackbeard said:
Brad Frost admitted in an interview I read last week the dilemma that WCHA teams seem to have in this regard every year, implying that it is probably a better strategy to avoid such matchups because of the damage they can cause a team in the rankings late in the season. Pretty sad when you have to be thinking about avoiding decent competition because of what it might do to your chances near the end of the season.
...

(Forgot to mention...very good articles you penned during the tournament...very enjoyable, especially with the looped highlight video clips attached).
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Thanks for this, I really appreciate that -- although you may take it back when you read the article I wrote earlier in the week about that article you mentioned about Frost... lol

http://www.bcinterruption.com/bosto...ns-hockey-minnesota-gophers-wisconsin-badgers

All I'm going to say is that while the article was slightly more than a little bit tongue-in-cheek, the actual mathematics of it all do make Frost's reasoning a little bit fuzzy at best and flat out wrong at worst.
 
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