BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

[ARM]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Ha

I feel shame.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

I feel shame.

Well with me saying MILL-ick-uh and puh-TOE-mick all year, you're allowed a couple name slip-ups lol

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

BC was every bit as good as Minnesota and Wisconsin this year but was not better on that day. If you played this game 10 times, BC would have won 5.

Wisconsin swept the Gophers in the season opening series this year. They were every bit as good as Minnesota this year but were not on those particular days. If you played those games 10 times Wisconsin would have won 5.

You can disagree with that all you want -- and you have your hardware so congratulations. But when you play one game between two teams that are equals, only one team can win.

The better team does not always win. They were the better team on this day, the day that matteed, but they were not "a better team" than BC over the course of the season. These teams were equals and frankly, yes, this game was closer than a lot of you are letting on. This game plays out differently if the Gophers don't jump ahead 13 seconds in. But they did jump ahead 13 seconds in and they won.

Hockey.

I'm shocked...shocked that in all the conversations here since the final game that I'm the only one that has asked the question, twice, with respect to what happened to Carpenter in that game. And even more shocking is that no one has ventured an opinion...the most valuable player on BC and no one has a word about her play in that game and why she seemed to be such a non factor. Obviously UM would try to neutralize her, (and Skarupa), but I thought she was invisible in the first period and not much more of a factor during the rest of the game whereas Skarupa made her presence known throughout. I even posed the question "illness"? Or possibly an injury that she played through?

So, with no one else thinking that this Patty Kaz final 3 contender warrants any discussion about her influence or lack thereof in the Championship Game I'll pose the question to you...the source of wisdom with respect to BC...what is your opinion with respect to why she was such a non factor in the game?

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

but it isn't clear to me whether that is because BC improved or the two teams that caused problems, BU and Harvard, were worse. Clearly, the second part of that is true, as neither came close to its ranking of the prior season.

Except that rankings are relative judgments/assessments...against teams whose ranking position is all relative as well. It's a perpetually moving target with every piece in motion relative to every other moving piece so it's nothing but guesswork regardless of all the mathematical models that can/are employed and discussed here endlessly in the last half of every season.

So, based on your parameter, the rankings, maybe they were not as good as the previous season as you say and on the other hand maybe they were but with other teams in their league showing more improvement.

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

BC was every bit as good as Minnesota and Wisconsin this year but was not better on that day. If you played this game 10 times, BC would have won 5.

Wisconsin swept the Gophers in the season opening series this year. They were every bit as good as Minnesota this year but were not on those particular days. If you played those games 10 times Wisconsin would have won 5.

You can disagree with that all you want -- and you have your hardware so congratulations. But when you play one game between two teams that are equals, only one team can win.

The better team does not always win. They were the better team on this day, the day that matteed, but they were not "a better team" than BC over the course of the season. These teams were equals and frankly, yes, this game was closer than a lot of you are letting on. This game plays out differently if the Gophers don't jump ahead 13 seconds in. But they did jump ahead 13 seconds in and they won.

Hockey.

Here is my opinion on this: BC matched up well with both UW and UM at every level, and I think it is true that a 10-game series between BC and either of those teams would be closely divided. However, I think that in most cases, the western teams would win the first game of the series, as it is just too difficult to prepare for the type of pressure the Gophers and Badgers bring. Elite athletes will make the adjustment, but as we saw, it took a good while for BC to figure out how to come up the ice. That seems to me why Frost and Johnson are hesitant to give BC early-season practice against that type of game.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Once Kessel came back, Wisconsin was 1 - 3 with -5 goal differential.

Does not change my point. BC was the third best team at the finals. The had to go to overtime to beat Clarkson, not a bad team but not up to the level of speed & play-making of the other 3. We can argue all day long about Wisconsin v. Kessel-enhanced MN but Wisconsin looked faster and played better against MN than BC showed. BC would not win a best-of-seven against either team despite being a very very good team.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Midwestern elitism is alive and well, even ten years later. <3 USCHO

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Here is my opinion on this: BC matched up well with both UW and UM at every level, and I think it is true that a 10-game series between BC and either of those teams would be closely divided. However, I think that in most cases, the western teams would win the first game of the series, as it is just too difficult to prepare for the type of pressure the Gophers and Badgers bring. Elite athletes will make the adjustment, but as we saw, it took a good while for BC to figure out how to come up the ice. That seems to me why Frost and Johnson are hesitant to give BC early-season practice against that type of game.

This is a thoughtful and accurate post.

 

[ARM]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Except that rankings are relative judgments/assessments...against teams whose ranking position is all relative as well. It's a perpetually moving target with every piece in motion relative to every other moving piece so it's nothing but guesswork regardless of all the mathematical models that can/are employed and discussed here endlessly in the last half of every season.

So, based on your parameter, the rankings, maybe they were not as good as the previous season as you say and on the other hand maybe they were but with other teams in their league showing more improvement.

There's also the eye test; Harvard was definitely less than it was the season before. BU was close to that level when it was playing well, but it was a very inconsistent team.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

That seems to me why Frost and Johnson are hesitant to give BC early-season practice against that type of game.

I don't think there's any conspiracy to not schedule BC to make sure that 'BC stays weak'. So say you're U MN. First, you do have a few options. Recruiting is pretty good in the state and teams want the pub in hot recruiting grounds. And it doesn't hurt having a few banners. So Minnesota has lots of options.

Then every year you have pretty much the #1 SOS in the country (#2 RPI an #1 KRACH this year and I'm pretty sure it was the same last year). Why would you go out of your way to make your schedule any tougher? And travel to do so? I would think you'd want to lighten it up a bit...relatively speaking the WCHA is a grind. And couple this with the general consensus that a tough SOS actually does not help you in seedings in the NCAAs...ask BSU and UND who do not get in with a grueling schedule and whose eastern counterparts do seem to make the tourney.

So Frost has enough scheduling criteria in thinking about what's best for MN's prospects and the team's fans. If I'm Frost, I have no incentive to book a BC for above reasons that have nothing as to whether a series helps or hurts BC. I really believe BC should accept any terms it can to travel west on play under whatever circumstances it can. It will 1) get BC road tested 2) add prestige to an already great program 3) help getting exposure in MN recruiting grounds. BC needs these series, U of MN and probably UW don't really want it for their own reasons.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

I'm shocked...shocked that in all the conversations here since the final game that I'm the only one that has asked the question, twice, with respect to what happened to Carpenter in that game. And even more shocking is that no one has ventured an opinion...the most valuable player on BC and no one has a word about her play in that game and why she seemed to be such a non factor. Obviously UM would try to neutralize her, (and Skarupa), but I thought she was invisible in the first period and not much more of a factor during the rest of the game whereas Skarupa made her presence known throughout. I even posed the question "illness"? Or possibly an injury that she played through?

So, with no one else thinking that this Patty Kaz final 3 contender warrants any discussion about her influence or lack thereof in the Championship Game I'll pose the question to you...the source of wisdom with respect to BC...what is your opinion with respect to why she was such a non factor in the game?

I don't think she was a non factor,
she was kept off the scoreboard
I think the opposing team had something to do with that
note that in the semi, Pankowski, Nurse, Cameranesi, Pannek ... did not score
non-factors? hardly, when the top teams face off, goals are tough to come by

earlier, while fans had a little fun with saying some Gophers were injured, the Badgers had the flu
there is no rematch, so it doesn't really matter

 

[ne7minder]

Midwestern elitism is alive and well, even ten years later. <3 USCHO

Well 15 of 16 national championships may indicate that reality has a Midwestern elitism bias.

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

I don't think there's any conspiracy to not schedule BC to make sure that 'BC stays weak'. So say you're U MN. First, you do have a few options. Recruiting is pretty good in the state and teams want the pub in hot recruiting grounds. And it doesn't hurt having a few banners. So Minnesota has lots of options.

Then every year you have pretty much the #1 SOS in the country (#2 RPI an #1 KRACH this year and I'm pretty sure it was the same last year). Why would you go out of your way to make your schedule any tougher? And travel to do so? I would think you'd want to lighten it up a bit...relatively speaking the WCHA is a grind. And couple this with the general consensus that a tough SOS actually does not help you in seedings in the NCAAs...ask BSU and UND who do not get in with a grueling schedule and whose eastern counterparts do seem to make the tourney.

So Frost has enough scheduling criteria in thinking about what's best for MN's prospects and the team's fans. If I'm Frost, I have no incentive to book a BC for above reasons that have nothing as to whether a series helps or hurts BC. I really believe BC should accept any terms it can to travel west on play under whatever circumstances it can. It will 1) get BC road tested 2) add prestige to an already great program 3) help getting exposure in MN recruiting grounds. BC needs these series, U of MN and probably UW don't really want it for their own reasons.

You pointed out some factors, I pointed out a factor. I think yours are valid as well as mine.

The reason that Bemidji and UND both play the Gophers tough every year is not because they are more talented than BC, because they are not. They play them tough because they know the style they need to play, and they are accustomed to playing it.

If Frost and Johnson are not considering these factors in their non-conference scheduling, maybe they should.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

I don't think she was a non factor,
she was kept off the scoreboard
I think the opposing team had something to do with that
note that in the semi, Pankowski, Nurse, Cameranesi, Pannek ... did not score
non-factors? hardly, when the top teams face off, goals are tough to come by

Thanks for the response.

Sure the opposing team had something to do with keeping her off the scoreboard...I alluded to that, generally, in my post.

But maybe I could have been clearer in making my point. By using the phrase "non-factor" I wasn't necessarily meaning that she was kept off the scoreboard although I suppose that's an extension of it...what I specifically meant was that she was almost invisible during the game. I didn't even remember that she was in the game until half way through the first period...didn't notice her and don't recall hearing her name mentioned by the play by play guy, (as I've previously mentioned, I can't say that about Skarupa in that game...she played with intensity, as you would expect...you couldn't help notice her). Then I started watching her...her body language didn't strike me as though she knew she was in a championship game...meaning she looked to me as though she lacked energy...like she was going through the motions as best she could but that this was not her usual level of play, never mind a Championship Game. This is why I asked about an illness or possibly an injury.

Maybe T-Cubed failed to answer my question because he misunderstood it, thinking that I was being sarcastic or rude which was certainly not the case. I was asking a serious, sincere question of BC's most prolific fan on this site and of one who is knowledgeable about the sport...especially since no one else seemed to have an opinion on the topic...I thought that certainly he would.

Then again, maybe I'm the only one who watched the game who thought she looked like there was something wrong...like her tank was empty from the get go...like she wasn't playing at the level of intensity that one would expect from a super elite player...and in The Championship Game to boot. This was not a dig at Carpenter. It was the exact opposite. Something didn't look right to me and I was just wondering what it was that was causing it.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

I would think you'd want to lighten it up a bit...relatively speaking the WCHA is a grind.

In 28 WCHA regular season games, Minnesota won 11 by more than 5 goals.

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

In 28 WCHA regular season games, Minnesota won 11 by more than 5 goals.

There were 3 teams over 12 games, plus 3 more games in tournament play, that had a legitimate chance to beat the Gophers this year from the WCHA. I would call that a fair amount of grind.

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

In 28 WCHA regular season games, Minnesota won 11 by more than 5 goals.

The WCHA has organized itself into 4 tiers. If the tiers were vacation destinations, they would be:

Tuscany (UM, UW),
Disney World, but during spring break (UND, BSU),
The Mitchell Corn Palace (UMD, SCSU, OSU),
Your In-Law's House (MSU)

Games between the top tiers are competitive. That is the relatively grindy part.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

You pointed out some factors, I pointed out a factor. I think yours are valid as well as mine.

The reason that Bemidji and UND both play the Gophers tough every year is not because they are more talented than BC, because they are not. They play them tough because they know the style they need to play, and they are accustomed to playing it.

If Frost and Johnson are not considering these factors in their non-conference scheduling, maybe they should.

Yes, they know how to play the Gophers...and they do have enough talent also.

In 28 WCHA regular season games, Minnesota won 11 by more than 5 goals.

UW, BSU, UND and often UMD are all typically tests. Even though they often schedule an additional challenging NC series, they just don't need any more. MN and UW have challenges built into their schedule...and due to tourney results, the schedule seems to work for them as is. BC does not have challenges...and there is a decent chance that there are implications come Frozen Four time. BC needs the change...MN and UW do not. If I were BC, I'd take any terms. I'm not saying that from disrespect...but rather from reality of each teams' plight.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Thanks for the response.

Sure the opposing team had something to do with keeping her off the scoreboard...I alluded to that, generally, in my post.

But maybe I could have been clearer in making my point. By using the phrase "non-factor" I wasn't necessarily meaning that she was kept off the scoreboard although I suppose that's an extension of it...what I specifically meant was that she was almost invisible during the game. I didn't even remember that she was in the game until half way through the first period...didn't notice her and don't recall hearing her name mentioned by the play by play guy, (as I've previously mentioned, I can't say that about Skarupa in that game...she played with intensity, as you would expect...you couldn't help notice her). Then I started watching her...her body language didn't strike me as though she knew she was in a championship game...meaning she looked to me as though she lacked energy...like she was going through the motions as best she could but that this was not her usual level of play, never mind a Championship Game. This is why I asked about an illness or possibly an injury.

Maybe T-Cubed failed to answer my question because he misunderstood it, thinking that I was being sarcastic or rude which was certainly not the case. I was asking a serious, sincere question of BC's most prolific fan on this site and of one who is knowledgeable about the sport...especially since no one else seemed to have an opinion on the topic...I thought that certainly he would.

Then again, maybe I'm the only one who watched the game who thought she looked like there was something wrong...like her tank was empty from the get go...like she wasn't playing at the level of intensity that one would expect from a super elite player...and in The Championship Game to boot. This was not a dig at Carpenter. It was the exact opposite. Something didn't look right to me and I was just wondering what it was that was causing it.

so was Dani Cameranesi also a non factor in the title game?
if you are not watching in person, a lot of what happens is missing

Bigger to me, in the final 3 games of the season, between the 3 best teams, 9 goals were scored, 5 by freshmen, it could be argued at this point in the season, they are not freshmen any more. Why so many goals by freshmen?
The Shaver & Potomak goals were from stiff forechecking and then converting their own turnover.
Williamson, Potomak, & Newkirk were from being in the right place at the right time (where you are supposed to be) to receive the fruits of a team mates labor.

don't expect anything from TTT, he's still trying to align fantasy with reality

 

[EastFan1]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Yes, they know how to play the Gophers...and they do have enough talent also.



UW, BSU, UND and often UMD are all typically tests.

Minnesota was +34 in 12 games against BSU, UND and UMD with an average margin of victory at 2.833 goals.

Against its non-conference opponents, Penn State (4th CHA) and Yale (9th ECAC), Minnesota was +13 with an average margin of victory of 3.25.