BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

don't expect anything from TTT, he's still trying to align fantasy with reality

Not that far from the truth. I just hate thinking about this game.

Blackbeard -- RE: Carpenter, no, I don't think anything was wrong. She was neutralized. Minnesota's players are pretty decent, don't you think? She looked fine to me, she just didn't score. She's not going to be head and shoulders above everyone on the ice when she's playing against a team like Minnesota that's stacked with as many Olympians as BC is.

Joe did a story earlier this year looking at the games between BC and NU in which he was talking about how good players can neutralize good players. When Coyne and Carpenter were both on the ice, it was really even and both teams' chances decreased. When Carpenter was on without Coyne, BC had the advantage. When NU had Coyne on without Carpenter, NU had the advantage.

It's obviously pretty intuitive but the end analysis of it all is that good players against good players can often stalemate. Look at USA vs. Canada yesterday -- there were 0 goals in 60 minutes of regulation. Does that mean that all of the best players in the world failed to show up?

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Not that far from the truth. I just hate thinking about this game.

Blackbeard -- RE: Carpenter, no, I don't think anything was wrong. She was neutralized. Minnesota's players are pretty decent, don't you think? She looked fine to me, she just didn't score. She's not going to be head and shoulders above everyone on the ice when she's playing against a team like Minnesota that's stacked with as many Olympians as BC is.

Joe did a story earlier this year looking at the games between BC and NU in which he was talking about how good players can neutralize good players. When Coyne and Carpenter were both on the ice, it was really even and both teams' chances decreased. When Carpenter was on without Coyne, BC had the advantage. When NU had Coyne on without Carpenter, NU had the advantage.

It's obviously pretty intuitive but the end analysis of it all is that good players against good players can often stalemate. Look at USA vs. Canada yesterday -- there were 0 goals in 60 minutes of regulation. Does that mean that all of the best players in the world failed to show up?

OK, thanks for the response.

Yes, I get that there obviously would have been an effort to neutralize her and Skarupa as I've already mentioned. But Skarupa did not lack intensity, (her effort caused her to stand out in that game, your opponent's skill can't prevent your effort from being expended, it can only prevent it from being successful), nor did I notice anyone on either team last night lacking it either, and that was my point...not that she didn't score. You lay it all out in a championship game, you pour it on because there's no tomorrow. She appeared to me to be either "holding back" or didn't have much to lay out in the first place which caused me to start asking the question about what was causing this.

If I'm in a minority of one thinking that that's what I saw, then so be it. It struck me as being glaringly obvious...apparently it wasn't...or others weren't paying as much attention to her play.

 

[ARM]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

If I'm in a minority of one thinking that that's what I saw, then so be it.

I know what you're saying. I had similar thoughts after her two previous FF appearances.

 

[zoofer]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Hey Grant, The NC game was great! And I concur with your points above on the best team that day winning......the only thing I'll mention is the early goal being the difference. Anyone who has played any sport knows that the early score happens and that there's plenty of time left.....I highly doubt that BC changed anything, (forecheck, centerzone, or D-play) due to that goal......if they came out in the second with a different strategy, that's something else......just a thought

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Hey Grant, The NC game was great! And I concur with your points above on the best team that day winning......the only thing I'll mention is the early goal being the difference. Anyone who has played any sport knows that the early score happens and that there's plenty of time left.....I highly doubt that BC changed anything, (forecheck, centerzone, or D-play) due to that goal......if they came out in the second with a different strategy, that's something else......just a thought

I don't think folks can compliment BC any more than they have.

But your general point is really the difference. A team down by a goal might not have implemented a new strategy or bring adjustments. A totally equal team down by a goal really should take over play. Motivation for a team being behind by a single goal is significant...and the tightening of a team trying to protect a single goal is pretty significant also. With those motivations working each team, a team that is exactly equal really and is behind by a goal should be able to carry more than half of play.

 

[bceaglesalum]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Anyone blaming Crowley for us losing in the final is an idiot. That's my #strongtake for the day.

Tony- tell yourself whatever makes you feel better- you're not a "give everyone a participant ribbon" type are you? The 40-0 season further adds to the bitter reality that Crowley can't and never will win the game that matters. She had the 'dream team" , arguably Skarupa could have been a Patty Kaz winner, and BC had the strongest 3rd line in the country. Take Crowley off the bench and let Skarupa/Carp lead the team and we would most likely have had a different outcome. Ask the players what 40-0 means to them, ask UNC what it feels like to have a golden season, but lose in the last 5 seconds, ask Clemson Football Team how a 12-0 season without a National Championship feels to them. At the end of the day the goal is a Stanley Cup, a Super Bowl Championship and a national Championship for BC Women's hockey. I don't have a beef with Kinger as you have alluded, I just don't think she is a good coach and clearly cant win a National Championship. Players go to BC because it is an elite University, with a tradition of academic excellence , a school that opens up the doors to their business future- ask the players, they don't go to BC because of Coach King. Signed Idiot!

 

[Leather helmet]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Tony- tell yourself whatever makes you feel better- you're not a "give everyone a participant ribbon" type are you? The 40-0 season further adds to the bitter reality that Crowley can't and never will win the game that matters. She had the 'dream team" , arguably Skarupa could have been a Patty Kaz winner, and BC had the strongest 3rd line in the country. Take Crowley off the bench and let Skarupa/Carp lead the team and we would most likely have had a different outcome. Ask the players what 40-0 means to them, ask UNC what it feels like to have a golden season, but lose in the last 5 seconds, ask Clemson Football Team how a 12-0 season without a National Championship feels to them. At the end of the day the goal is a Stanley Cup, a Super Bowl Championship and a national Championship for BC Women's hockey. I don't have a beef with Kinger as you have alluded, I just don't think she is a good coach and clearly cant win a National Championship. Players go to BC because it is an elite University, with a tradition of academic excellence , a school that opens up the doors to their business future- ask the players, they don't go to BC because of Coach King. Signed Idiot!

Wow, not sure where to start. BC was fast, talented, and deep; so was Minnesota. Recall that Minnesota had a former PKaz winner, and a couple more who have made the final 10 multiple times. They had the national ROY and a goalie who ranks #4 all-time in wins. I don't think it's true that all BC had to do was show up and not screw up.

If they played the final game 10 times, with Scotty Bowman coaching both sides, each team would win 5 times. If you think the world is full of coaches who can win 40 games, but there are only a few who can win 41, then I don't want you doing my annual job evaluation. Being a coach of any sport, at any level, means being second-guessed by people with various levels of information and perspective. This board is a useful place for some of the low-information second-guessers to air their grievances, and a good place for some of the people with perspective to get a chuckle.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

call me whatever you want, but I don't think either coach made a difference in the outcome DURING the game
both these teams are highly disciplined, trained, and motivated, they have to be to get to this point in the season, the coaches can be given credit for that
the coaches have their biggest affect in preparing for the game, what happens during the game is mostly beyond their control
sure they have a timeout, and can try to match lines, and make some lineup changes
but their main influence is what happens getting to the game, once it starts, there is not a lot they can do to influence the outcome (although they can easily screw it up, which I don't think Crowley did)
in fact, can anyone think of a final or a semi where the coach either won the game or lost it?
I can't

 

[ARM]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

in fact, can anyone think of a final or a semi where the coach either won the game or lost it?

In 2008, after the semifinals one coach claimed to have spotted a flaw in the upcoming opponent for the finals. After her team went on to win, she was asked if her team had been able to exploit that weakness, and if so, what was it. The answers were, "Yes," and something to the effect of she wouldn't say because they wanted to be able to take advantage of it again in the future. If her own testimonial wasn't enough evidence of her coaching superiority, then surely donning a shiny jacket to loosen up her team in the 2010 final was.

Frost has on more than one occasion admitted that he got out coached in the 2008 quarterfinal loss to UW. He started overtime with his first, then second, and then third lines. The Badgers rolled the first, the second, and the first, scoring on the third shift of OT. Or maybe he should have worn a sparkly jacket.

 

[D2D]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Or maybe he should have worn a sparkly jacket.

Throwing a few water bottles might have helped too.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

In 2008, after the semifinals one coach claimed to have spotted a flaw in the upcoming opponent for the finals. After her team went on to win, she was asked if her team had been able to exploit that weakness, and if so, what was it. The answers were, "Yes," and something to the effect of she wouldn't say because they wanted to be able to take advantage of it again in the future. If her own testimonial wasn't enough evidence of her coaching superiority, then surely donning a shiny jacket to loosen up her team in the 2010 final was.

Frost has on more than one occasion admitted that he got out coached in the 2008 quarterfinal loss to UW. He started overtime with his first, then second, and then third lines. The Badgers rolled the first, the second, and the first, scoring on the third shift of OT. Or maybe he should have worn a sparkly jacket.

LOL, that pretty much sums up the difference between the two coaches

you gotta admire Miller's talent for setting it up so that if the team wins, it was her perceptive eyes that saw the weakness, and her superior intellect that developed the strategy to take advantage of it
if they lost, the team just didn't execute her brilliant game plan

funny how those types have a long list of people who used to work for them
they take the credit, others take the blame

 

[zoofer]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Hey Grant and Fellow Eaglers, Question from out of the blue, but I'm curious as how other schools do things.....given that we're all "boosters" by NCAA definition, do you go to the senior's-end of the year banquet for the team?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Hey Grant and Fellow Eaglers, Question from out of the blue, but I'm curious as how other schools do things.....given that we're all "boosters" by NCAA definition, do you go to the senior's-end of the year banquet for the team?

Joe and I don't personally, and neither does wwhyte... I'm not sure what BC does for access to its banquet but I wouldn't feel like I belong there anyway; I'm just a fan.

Joe does go to the men's banquet but it's also a member of Pikes Peak (on the board, actually). So I guess that comes back to how you originally worded your question of if there was actually a BCWH booster club, whether we would go or how we would go... and my answers are "probably not" and "I'm not sure how we do it."

Roundabout answer, sorry haha

 

[zoofer]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Interesting, so there is no actual BC Women's Hockey Friends group, or Club that the raises money for the team, puts together get-togethers? Doesn't the men's team have a club with different levels, which offer coaches talks or team meetings the higher the level of joining?

 

[wwhyte]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Interesting, so there is no actual BC Women's Hockey Friends group, or Club that the raises money for the team, puts together get-togethers? Doesn't the men's team have a club with different levels, which offer coaches talks or team meetings the higher the level of joining?

Nope, no friends of BCWIH. We've talked about putting it together and might manage to make something happen this summer.

AFAIK the end-of-season banquet is team (and family?) only, no fans/boosters.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Doesn't the men's team have a club with different levels, which offer coaches talks or team meetings the higher the level of joining?

I don't know about levels (Joe would) but yeah the men's team has the Pike Peak Hockey Club. I don't know too many details though as I'm not a member.

 

[zoofer]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Thanks guys for the insight....you're aware of what went down up here, and while I respect the team and family having a chance to celebrate, many of us here who have been with the team and supported the team when the University didn't, would also have liked to have the chance to honor the players and teams accomplishment......according to the AD and Assoc. AD, we're family! Unfortunately it's a totally different situation on the men's side......

 

[Veritas]

Re: BC Women's Hockey, 2015-2016: Embrace The Cupcake Diet

Wow great story! I like how you went from one player babysitter to another haha.

Also didn't know they used to play with six skaters on the ice. When did that end?

I think around 1920. I know my dad played with six skaters at Boston Latin (1919) and with 5 skaters at Bates (1925)