Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

[bakdraft21]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I am not sure it this topic has been approached yet here but if UC gets into the SUNY's and Canton looking to maybe get in too how will the teams fair for getting new travel partners? Will UC hook up with Genny, or Morrisville. Will Potsdam and Canton travel and where will this leave the Cards or will Oswego and Potsdam hook up. But it will be all good for the SUNYAC will be getting a high quality team which will only make the conference better. Wouldn't it something if NY brought back the old NYState league, sorry RIT fans. I'm sure Bakdraft would mind seening that league again.
Oswego '89

Well RIT was a great opponent, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from when I got cursed out in sign laungage when I got a penalty.......also got crushed against RIT behind the net, had my head down......The bottom line is that anything that makes the schedule ezr as far as travel is great, and I think Utica will be GREAT for the sunyac, it will push recruiting for sure ......AS for Canton they seemed to have their act together back in the 80's, and we at Oswego got many transfers from them when they where done with their soph yr, so I think they would also be a nice addition for the sunyac, but the recruiting pot will be stressed for sure, and as I said b4 diversity will have to be the name of the game.....

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Even those played on on-campus sites of the higher seeds,as opposed to being at a NCAA regional somewhere..?

Every single national playoff game in every single sport in every single location.

Of course, this also means the NCAA keeps the ticket revenues from all those games...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

When there was a "Greater" NY conference there wasn't 2 divisions I don't think. From the old ECAC league there was RIT, Canisius, Hobart, Hamilton, Union, EC, and the SUNAYC teams. Plus if there was 2 divisions that would extend the conference playoffs by one more week for the overall championship. And would the NCAA place 2 AC bids in such a large conference with 2 divisional winners?? In the 70's & 80's there use to be the SUNY playoffs followed by the NY State League followed by the NCAA's. The "Greater" NY league was just an idea for thoughts and comments.
Oswego '89

The AQ system was a lot different back then, so nobody cared how large a conference was.

The NCAA would not at all place two AQs in that "new" conference no matter how large it is. That's what NUProf was talking about which is why it is not at all to the SUNYAC advantage to absorb the ECAC West.

BTW, when the NYCHA existed, it existed within the ECAC West, almost a division within a division. Then the SUNYAC started existing within that before they went off on their own. The whole set up was really bizzare, but we all loved it.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The AQ system was a lot different back then, so nobody cared how large a conference was.

The NCAA would not at all place two AQs in that "new" conference no matter how large it is. That's what NUProf was talking about which is why it is not at all to the SUNYAC advantage to absorb the ECAC West.

BTW, when the NYCHA existed, it existed within the ECAC West, almost a division within a division. Then the SUNYAC started existing within that before they went off on their own. The whole set up was really bizzare, but we all loved it.

But Russell,

What if two new conferences are created with seven teams in each? Would that work.

They can be seperate in name and play every team in their league twice and then every team in the other division once to create an Interlock of sorts for all the New York schools.

12 Division games
7 cross division games that count for league points
6 OOC....

looks pretty nice on paper if they can actually do it and get two autobids out of it.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

But Russell,

What if two new conferences are created with seven teams in each? Would that work.

They can be seperate in name and play every team in their league twice and then every team in the other division once to create an Interlock of sorts for all the New York schools.

12 Division games
7 cross division games that count for league points
6 OOC....

looks pretty nice on paper if they can actually do it and get two autobids out of it.

If the administration of the one league was not part of the SUNYAC, it would work. They could have an interlock between the ECAC W and the SUNYAC as you described it. There would have to be tangible separation between the two leagues to avoid the "umbrella" clause.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Game at campus sites are considered NCAA regional games. The NCAA rents the site from the host, and pays all expenses.
The procedure is the same for all DIII sports. You can't change it just for hockey without the approval of the NCAA's DIII governance structure. As far as DIII is concerned, all sports are created equal.

Interesting.I had no idea it worked that way.(I'm used to seeing playoff games held at more or less neutral sites,in D-1.)The plot thickens yet again.

Does the NCAA get the gate revenue and the school's usual slice of the concession $ as part of the deal?

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Interesting.I had no idea it worked that way.(I'm used to seeing playoff games held at more or less neutral sites,in D-1.)The plot thickens yet again.

Does the NCAA get the gate revenue and the school's usual slice of the concession $ as part of the deal?

They get the gate - set the ticket prices, control everything - don't know about concessions, but Utica would not sell beer per NCAA rules.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

They get the gate - set the ticket prices, control everything - don't know about concessions, but Utica would not sell beer per NCAA rules.

On the concessions end, no school specific souvenirs – such as clothing, trinkets, etc after quarterfinals. Though the NCAA does supply for sale (at a MINIMAL margin) official NCAA gear. On a side note, Plattsburgh’s concessions always improves on generic Cardinal souvenirs when Wesleyan comes to town – for example, we nearly sold out during the 2004-05 Cardinal Classic

 

[joecct]

Interesting.I had no idea it worked that way.(I'm used to seeing playoff games held at more or less neutral sites,in D-1.)The plot thickens yet again.

Does the NCAA get the gate revenue and the school's usual slice of the concession $ as part of the deal?

You know D-I is thinking about returning to campus sites for a 2 out of 3 quarterfinals??

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

You know D-I is thinking about returning to campus sites for a 2 out of 3 quarterfinals??

Didn't know that,but nothing those shameless money-grubbers do surprises me.D-1 has routinely held Regionals on-campus at Minnesota,Michigan,etc. in the past.Now that NUProf has enlightened me as to the gate situation,the reason behind this travesty is clear.(BTW,do you have a link?)

As much as I like to complain about the D-3 process,at least they hold on-campus playoff games at the higher seed...In D-1,the host-school is sited on their home ice even if they are the lowest seed in the field.That's incredibly cynical,and it makes the NCAA look absolutely ridiculous when they sanctimoniously mete out penalties to programs that are similarly looking to bolster their bottom-lines without regard for equity.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Didn't know that,but nothing those shameless money-grubbers do surprises me.D-1 has routinely held Regionals on-campus at Minnesota,Michigan,etc. in the past.Now that NUProf has enlightened me as to the gate situation,the reason behind this travesty is clear.(BTW,do you have a link?)

As much as I like to complain about the D-3 process,at least they hold on-campus playoff games at the higher seed...In D-1,the host-school is sited on their home ice even if they are the lowest seed in the field.That's incredibly cynical,and it makes the NCAA look absolutely ridiculous when they sanctimoniously mete out penalties to programs that are similarly looking to bolster their bottom-lines without regard for equity.

The NCAA DIII 2011 Men's Ice Hockey Championship Manual Everything you wanted to know and more...

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Yes,indeed...Much more!

I didn't think hockey at this lowly level could possibly be so Byzantine...A perfect example of how middle-level bureaucrats,if they're wiley enough,can create and sustain a completely BS system that exists just to further the status-quo,and to keep the paychecks coming.(To themselves.)

Pretty sad state of affairs at its face,but one of our founding fathers had it right:"Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity."

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Yes,indeed...Much more!

I didn't think hockey at this lowly level could possibly be so Byzantine...A perfect example of how middle-level bureaucrats,if they're wiley enough,can create and sustain a completely BS system that exists just to further the status-quo,and to keep the paychecks coming.(To themselves.)

Pretty sad state of affairs at its face,but one of our founding fathers had it right:"Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity."

The women's document is similar, except that, due to the 1:6.5 rule, the field is seven teams - pairings are geographical, the final four is at a campus site, but not necessarily hosted by the team that is given the bye. This year Norwich got the bye, RIT hosted. The Norwich bye was not due to seeding, but due to the fact that the other six teams matched up better geographically.

That's DIII in all sports.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

...

That'$ DIII in all $port$.

Fixed your post

 

[altazo]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Yes,indeed...Much more!

I didn't think hockey at this lowly level could possibly be so Byzantine...A perfect example of how middle-level bureaucrats,if they're wiley enough,can create and sustain a completely BS system that exists just to further the status-quo,and to keep the paychecks coming.(To themselves.)

Pretty sad state of affairs at its face,but one of our founding fathers had it right:"Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity."

Sounds like you're over it. Maybe time to stick to D1...

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Jeez-oh-Pete,thanks so much for the suggestion,but last I checked the NCAA oversees D-1 as well.(You can look that up.)

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The women's document is similar, except that, due to the 1:6.5 rule, the field is seven teams - pairings are geographical, the final four is at a campus site, but not necessarily hosted by the team that is given the bye. This year Norwich got the bye, RIT hosted. The Norwich bye was not due to seeding, but due to the fact that the other six teams matched up better geographically.

More great stuff,thanks!(How "NCAA" is that scenario..?)

I'm even starting to embrace their cynicism,re: the way they manage to successfully dance the facts past the public."The Emperor's New Clothes" comes to mind yet again.It's actually kind of funny,in a perverse sort of way.

To state the obvious:seeding is nowhere near as important as siting,when home-ice is in the mix for certain,fortunate teams.I'm sure that any team in the nation would happily accept whatever seed given them,no matter how crappy,provided they could play at home.Truly a no-brainer,but it apparently flies,somehow.Amazing.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

With Nazareth adding a team, does that decrease Utica's interest in the SUNYAC?


Powers &8^]

 

[norm1909]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

With Nazareth adding a team, does that decrease Utica's interest in the SUNYAC?


Powers &8^]

I don’t think so. Aside from perhaps realizing that they might loose some “sympathy” votes (i.e. stuck in a conference with a bleak AQ future and while their interest in the SUNYAC might not substantially decrease, the willingness of the SUNYAC to “mess-up” their playground is.). The ECAC-West isn’t going to qualify for an AQ until after they get to seven teams which wont happen until some ELSE joins, MAYBE Canton, and they might bring the conference to seven by as a late 2018. Nazareth joining a couple years ago might have helped keep LVC.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I don’t think so. Aside from perhaps realizing that they might loose some “sympathy” votes (i.e. stuck in a conference with a bleak AQ future and while their interest in the SUNYAC might not substantially decrease, the willingness of the SUNYAC to “mess-up” their playground is.). The ECAC-West isn’t going to qualify for an AQ until after they get to seven teams which wont happen until some ELSE joins, MAYBE Canton, and they might bring the conference to seven by as a late 2018. Nazareth joining a couple years ago might have helped keep LVC.

But, you're leaving out the factor that someone else could form a hockey team. And if this someone else is already an NCAA memmber, it will be a lot quicker than waiting for Canton. And now that Nazareth has jumped the gun, it may get another school considering a hockey program to also start making a move.