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Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I know everyone is thinking NCAAs but I was just thinking about this the other day.
Has anyone heard anything new about any of these schools?
Utica is still May. But has anyone heard anything else from the other four teams? I heard Manhattanville is looking to at the possibility of D1 but I am skeptical about them being able to. Elmira and Hobart, I have no idea what they could possibly do. while SUNYAC seems to be the obvious decision, I don't think they could do it along with Utica since Utica is on the bubble as it is. Then Neumann....are even worse off due to location than the others because going to Aston from any other D3 school is a long trip. Anything, anyone has heard would be great.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Hockeyfan2113 said:
I know everyone is thinking NCAAs but I was just thinking about this the other day.
Has anyone heard anything new about any of these schools?
Utica is still May. But has anyone heard anything else from the other four teams? I heard Manhattanville is looking to at the possibility of D1 but I am skeptical about them being able to. Elmira and Hobart, I have no idea what they could possibly do. while SUNYAC seems to be the obvious decision, I don't think they could do it along with Utica since Utica is on the bubble as it is. Then Neumann....are even worse off due to location than the others because going to Aston from any other D3 school is a long trip. Anything, anyone has heard would be great.
Click to expand...

I have been asking Utica "insiders" about this all season,and they all say that UC will probably not get into the SUNYAC,though it won't be official one way or the other until May.

I agree with you about Neumann.Taking a 5-hour bus ride to Aston is gonna be a tough sell to any conference.It would be sad to see that terrific program die,especially considering they won it all so recently,but I can see that happening.

D-3 hockey just doesn't look after itself.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Hockeyfan2113 said:
I heard Manhattanville is looking to at the possibility of D1 but I am skeptical about them being able to.
Click to expand...
If it is just moving the hockey program(s) to Division 1, forget about it. The NCAA has a moratorium on play-ups and pending legislation that you can only play up if your current level (D2) does not have a national championship AND you get to join an established multi sport league.

Guess how many multi sport leagues there are in the Division 1 hockey?

None though in a few years, we get the Big 10 hockey conference. So, in my guess, unless Manhattanville wants to move the whole athletic program to Division 1 (a very long, drawn out process) it just not happening.

BTW, did you see that UConn lost $1.6 million on their bowl game?? Wonder where that $$ is going to come from?
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

joecct said:
If it is just moving the hockey program(s) to Division 1, forget about it. The NCAA has a moratorium on play-ups and pending legislation that you can only play up if your current level (D2) does not have a national championship AND you get to join an established multi sport league.

Guess how many multi sport leagues there are in the Division 1 hockey?

None though in a few years, we get the Big 10 hockey conference. So, in my guess, unless Manhattanville wants to move the whole athletic program to Division 1 (a very long, drawn out process) it just not happening.

BTW, did you see that UConn lost $1.6 million on their bowl game?? Wonder where that $$ is going to come from?
Click to expand...

The NCAA want to protect their revenue stream at all costs - money from TV rights is distributed only to DI schools, and even though play-ups are excluded from revenue sharing, and from playing basketball - they want to insulate DI from the "corrupting" influence of non-DI programs. It dilutes the brand. Heaven forbid that a St. Lawrence or Clarkson get too much publicity from their achievements in a DI sport. It would make the concept of DI look bad.

As for football - sure shows how well the Bowl system works doesn't it? Go to a bowl game - you have to buy a certain number of tickets and resell them. If you don't you eat them. Great incentive.

If only the NAIA or some other competitor were a more viable alternative, the NCAA might change some of its practices.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

joecct said:
If it is just moving the hockey program(s) to Division 1, forget about it. The NCAA has a moratorium on play-ups and pending legislation that you can only play up if your current level (D2) does not have a national championship AND you get to join an established multi sport league.
Click to expand...

Not to highjack, but do you have a link to an article or the legislation that spells this out? It came up in a D-I board argument last week and my Google-skills didn't yield anything very relevant to this wave of play-up legislation.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Hockeyfan2113 said:
There is no link, this is from someone I have talked to. In reference to Manhattanville, they are looking to take hockey teams and most likely lacrosse.
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Teams, plural? Regardless of whatever the current wording of the moratorium is, you only get to play up in one sport per gender (not counting National Collegiate sports, of course). Mercyhurst, somewhat famously, had to lower lacrosse back to D-II when they started playing up in hockey.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Hockeyfan2113 said:
There is no link, this is from someone I have talked to. In reference to Manhattanville, they are looking to take hockey teams and most likely lacrosse.
Click to expand...

Rhett is right. If you are hearing multiple sports, then your sources definitely cannot be trusted because it's obvious they don't know what they are talking about or there is a miscommunication going on.

Now, you can have the one men's sports team and one women's sports team be different sports, but only one per gender can play up. Period. No exceptions.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Russell Jaslow said:
Rhett is right. If you are hearing multiple sports, then your sources definitely cannot be trusted because it's obvious they don't know what they are talking about or there is a miscommunication going on.

Now, you can have the one men's sports team and one women's sports team be different sports, but only one per gender can play up. Period. No exceptions.
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I don't know the rules but from what he said they were looking to do both mens and womens hockey. And if they could do it both lacrosse. Though he added they were looking to take everyone to D1 but he mentioned that he did not think they would be able to.

This is going to be very tough for all five teams. Especially after this season, despite what people are saying about the strength of the conference, all five received votes by the end and for the most part of the season four were ranked with the other in the next 5 in votes. Manhattanville went 12-0-1 out of conference including beating Norwich but stumbled in conference, Elmira after thanksgiving has been one of the best in D3, Utica had a rebirth and had a very good season, and Hobart went 10-2-1 out of conference and beat Oswego and Hamilton.
 
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Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Hockeyfan2113 said:
I don't know the rules but from what he said they were looking to do both mens and womens hockey. And if they could do it both lacrosse. Though he added they were looking to take everyone to D1 but he mentioned that he did not think they would be able to.
Click to expand...

Well, the rules are clear. Their options are:

1) Pick ONE of the men's sports, and ONE of the women's sports, and hope this "no play-ups" legislation doesn't get passed before they do it.

2) Move everything to DI, and hope this "13-year" legislation doesn't get passed before they do it.

3) Remain as-is.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Utica's SUNYAC Application Moves Forward, Pool B Eliminated

By Scott Biggar and Russell Jaslow • ECAC West/SUNYAC Columnists • Monday, May 23, 2011

Utica has taken the next step in the application process for its men’s team to join the SUNYAC during that league’s spring meetings.

Administrators from the school last week made a presentation to the SUNYAC committee.

After review, the league decided to proceed with a site visit to the college, scheduled to occur this fall.

The Pioneers play in the ECAC West, but last year applied for admission to the SUNYAC after that league changed its charter to allow non-State University of New York schools.

Meanwhile, NCAA assistant director of championships Sherard Clinkscales recently confirmed that starting next season, the Division III men’s tournament will no longer award a Pool B bid. Those had been reserved for teams in leagues not eligible for an automatic qualifier bid from Pool A.

Entering the 2011-12 season, only the five remaining teams in the ECAC West would have been eligible for Pool B. The NCAA requires that a minimum of seven teams be included in Pool B to award a bid from that category of teams.

An extra bid will be added to Pool C to maintain the current tournament size of 11 teams.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh said:
An extra bid will be added to Pool C to maintain the current tournament size of 11 teams
Click to expand...

However, the number of Pool C bids will remain the same, due to the addition of the MASCAC as a conference qualifying for a Pool A bid.

The net result one less at large bid. My guess is that the ECAC West will get at least one of the Pool C bids. This means that there will be more teams scrambling for the other two Pool C bids. Maybe this will encourage teams to schedule their playoffs in a way the maximizes the opportunity for the top team to win the title instead of trying to game the Pool C criteria in a way that gives a faltering league leader a better shot at Pool C. (Faint hope, I know, but the SUNYAC and NCHA used to do it right.)
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

NUProf said:
However, the number of Pool C bids will remain the same, due to the addition of the MASCAC as a conference qualifying for a Pool A bid.

The net result one less at large bid. My guess is that the ECAC West will get at least one of the Pool C bids. This means that there will be more teams scrambling for the other two Pool C bids. Maybe this will encourage teams to schedule their playoffs in a way the maximizes the opportunity for the top team to win the title instead of trying to game the Pool C criteria in a way that gives a faltering league leader a better shot at Pool C. (Faint hope, I know, but the SUNYAC and NCHA used to do it right.)
Click to expand...

The ECAC West won't be guaranteed anything if the teams don't have good records and they falter OOC to the SUNYAC etc.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

NUProf said:
However, the number of Pool C bids will remain the same, due to the addition of the MASCAC as a conference qualifying for a Pool A bid.

The net result one less at large bid. My guess is that the ECAC West will get at least one of the Pool C bids. This means that there will be more teams scrambling for the other two Pool C bids. Maybe this will encourage teams to schedule their playoffs in a way the maximizes the opportunity for the top team to win the title instead of trying to game the Pool C criteria in a way that gives a faltering league leader a better shot at Pool C. (Faint hope, I know, but the SUNYAC and NCHA used to do it right.)
Click to expand...
Maybe. The ECAC-W of 09-10 would have been hard pressed to grab a Pool C bid. I would hope that the Championships Committee looks at the effect on the SoS of playing a bottom dwelling team in the playoffs and, like our bretheran in D-I, exclude that game if a win lowers your SoS.

So realistically we can figure that Pool C is now down to 2 slots. I'm going to assume that the following conferences have no shot at a Pool C bid:
MASCAC
ECAC-NE
ECAC-E
MCHA
NESCAC

Which leaves the ECAC-W, SUNYAC, MIAC, and NCHA fighting for 2 slots. Next March is going to be SO much fun. A potential wailing and screaming point -- the ECAC-W gets 0 or 2 bids.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

joecct said:
So realistically we can figure that Pool C is now down to 2 slots. I'm going to assume that the following conferences have no shot at a Pool C bid:
MASCAC
ECAC-NE
ECAC-E
MCHA
NESCAC

Which leaves the ECAC-W, SUNYAC, MIAC, and NCHA fighting for 2 slots. Next March is going to be SO much fun. A potential wailing and screaming point -- the ECAC-W gets 0 or 2 bids.
Click to expand...

I dunno, I think the ECAC-E and even the NESCAC are just as strong of conferences as the MIAC.

The MIAC and NESCAC are actually quite similar.
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
The ECAC West won't be guaranteed anything if the teams don't have good records and they falter OOC to the SUNYAC etc.
Click to expand...

I'm speaking historically and logically here. Had this happened this year, We slide the Pool B selection in as one of the Pool C selections, and now one of the three--
Oswego, Neumann, and UWS would not have made the field.

Whose teeth are gnashed the worst?
 
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

joecct said:
I'm going to assume that the following conferences have no shot at a Pool C bid:
MASCAC
ECAC-NE
ECAC-E
MCHA
NESCAC

Which leaves the ECAC-W, SUNYAC, MIAC, and NCHA fighting for 2 slots. Next March is going to be SO much fun. A potential wailing and screaming point -- the ECAC-W gets 0 or 2 bids.
Click to expand...

Really? No shot? Stranger things have happened. The NE got two teams in one year with less bids. Never say never.

If Castleton had won one more game or played one better team, the East most likely would have gotten two this year. The NESCAC had two last year and have gotten two several times. Why do you say no chance? Things can change so quickly from year to year.
 
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