PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
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Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
- Thread starter PrezdeJohnson09
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Somebody kindly remind me why it's impossible to just expand the field to 16,which would leave no team with legitimate championship potential out in the cold..?
I forget.
Somebody kindly remind me why it's impossible to just expand the field to 16,which would leave no team with legitimate championship potential out in the cold..?
I forget.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Because that would require the NCAA to make an exception to their ratio rule, something they are unlikely to do for any DIII sport, let alone DIII hockey
Because that would require the NCAA to make an exception to their ratio rule, something they are unlikely to do for any DIII sport, let alone DIII hockey
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Right.Thank you.
Still don't understand why that ratio is so sacred,though.Seems like an arbitrary construct to me,and one that serves no real purpose.
Right.Thank you.
Still don't understand why that ratio is so sacred,though.Seems like an arbitrary construct to me,and one that serves no real purpose.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
It is sacred because the NCAA wants to use the same rules for all team sports for consistency. To modify it would require spending more money on all DIII championships, which they don't want to do. If they spend more than 3% of the NCAA budget on DIII championships, they would offend the DI programs.
It is sacred because the NCAA wants to use the same rules for all team sports for consistency. To modify it would require spending more money on all DIII championships, which they don't want to do. If they spend more than 3% of the NCAA budget on DIII championships, they would offend the DI programs.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
The teams that MAKE the championship are the ones left in the cold
The teams that MAKE the championship are the ones left in the cold
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Showing my ignorance here (again),but wouldn't the schools themselves foot the bills for the additional,on-campus,games played?
Showing my ignorance here (again),but wouldn't the schools themselves foot the bills for the additional,on-campus,games played?
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I don't believe any school with a legitimate chance was left out last year.
I don't believe any school with a legitimate chance was left out last year.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I think people would argue Castleton and Utica.
I think people would argue Castleton and Utica.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I think the fans of Eau Claire, Middlebury, Geneseo, and MSOE also believe that if their team got in they could run the table, but I guess that's why they play a regular season?
I think the fans of Eau Claire, Middlebury, Geneseo, and MSOE also believe that if their team got in they could run the table, but I guess that's why they play a regular season?
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Particularly in the case of Castleton, the committee would have been completely justified in putting them ahead of UWS. The numbers could have been used either way, simple as that. Castleton's rgular season earned them a spot in the tournament. So did UWS'. Problem is, there was only 1 spot available... one of them had to get the screw. That's what the people calling for expansion are talking about.
Unfortunately, I don't foresee expansion doing much to alleviate the situation... it will just shift the "bubble" where teams get screwed down a few rungs in the regional rankings.
Particularly in the case of Castleton, the committee would have been completely justified in putting them ahead of UWS. The numbers could have been used either way, simple as that. Castleton's rgular season earned them a spot in the tournament. So did UWS'. Problem is, there was only 1 spot available... one of them had to get the screw. That's what the people calling for expansion are talking about.
Unfortunately, I don't foresee expansion doing much to alleviate the situation... it will just shift the "bubble" where teams get screwed down a few rungs in the regional rankings.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
You miss the point.
Not every team plays in a conference that recieves an AQ,and some conferences' 2nd- (and maybe even 3rd-) place teams are more deserving than another conference's AQ champion...Ergo,in some cases,the field is not determined by what happens on the ice.There are just too many AQs for such a small field,clearly.
I'm not declaring that any team left out last year was NC material,but one of them surely might have been.The inclusion of 5 additional deserving teams would've absolutely made for a more fair (and more fun) tournament for all involved.
You miss the point.
Not every team plays in a conference that recieves an AQ,and some conferences' 2nd- (and maybe even 3rd-) place teams are more deserving than another conference's AQ champion...Ergo,in some cases,the field is not determined by what happens on the ice.There are just too many AQs for such a small field,clearly.
I'm not declaring that any team left out last year was NC material,but one of them surely might have been.The inclusion of 5 additional deserving teams would've absolutely made for a more fair (and more fun) tournament for all involved.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
No. The NCAA picks up all expenses for all national playoff games.
No. The NCAA picks up all expenses for all national playoff games.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I absolutely agree that UWS was as "on the fence" as many other teams, and had the national semi finals been held in the east it would have been Castleton in that last Pool C.
I certainly agree that more teams (16) would make for a more fun and interesting tourney, but that ratio the NCAA goes off applies to all the sports they sponsor a championship for, so it is what it is.
The only conference that doesn't have an AQ for next season is your ECAC-W. They haven't had an AQ for a while now, yet they are always well represented in NCAA's with usually two and sometimes three teams getting in. Now how those teams have represented their conference in the tourney, well that's another story (with the notable exception of Neumann in '09.) I know you're angling for Utica, and they did have a fine season. If the tourney started in early Feb. they would have been a lock. But, as has been said a number of times before and I know you don't want to hear it again, they couldn't get past a Neumann team (that got beat by Bowdoin in the tourney) in 4 attempts. Hate to say it but, the NCAA committee just may have got it right this season.
I absolutely agree that UWS was as "on the fence" as many other teams, and had the national semi finals been held in the east it would have been Castleton in that last Pool C.
I certainly agree that more teams (16) would make for a more fun and interesting tourney, but that ratio the NCAA goes off applies to all the sports they sponsor a championship for, so it is what it is.
The only conference that doesn't have an AQ for next season is your ECAC-W. They haven't had an AQ for a while now, yet they are always well represented in NCAA's with usually two and sometimes three teams getting in. Now how those teams have represented their conference in the tourney, well that's another story (with the notable exception of Neumann in '09.) I know you're angling for Utica, and they did have a fine season. If the tourney started in early Feb. they would have been a lock. But, as has been said a number of times before and I know you don't want to hear it again, they couldn't get past a Neumann team (that got beat by Bowdoin in the tourney) in 4 attempts. Hate to say it but, the NCAA committee just may have got it right this season.
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Not angling for anyone in this instance,believe it or not..I didn't lose a single night of sleep over how things played out last season.D-3 hockey is as small-potatoes as small-potatoes can get.It's a cottage-industry that serves the very few.Yet,that doesn't excuse the way it operates.In fact,it's rather ironic that the selection process for (supposedly) liberal-minded D-3 is opaque at best,while cynical,evil,old D-1 lets every team know where they stand,in real time,all season long.
And to respond to your personal comment:Utica certainly didn't deserve to get in before NC this past year on the basis of the HTH criterion,but looking at PWR as a whole,they would surely should have made the field over some other teams who did (including NC,I think.)Not gonna bother to look it up.
It's all about the AQs.They mess this thing up each and every year.
Not angling for anyone in this instance,believe it or not..I didn't lose a single night of sleep over how things played out last season.D-3 hockey is as small-potatoes as small-potatoes can get.It's a cottage-industry that serves the very few.Yet,that doesn't excuse the way it operates.In fact,it's rather ironic that the selection process for (supposedly) liberal-minded D-3 is opaque at best,while cynical,evil,old D-1 lets every team know where they stand,in real time,all season long.
And to respond to your personal comment:Utica certainly didn't deserve to get in before NC this past year on the basis of the HTH criterion,but looking at PWR as a whole,they would surely should have made the field over some other teams who did (including NC,I think.)Not gonna bother to look it up.
It's all about the AQs.They mess this thing up each and every year.
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Even those played on on-campus sites of the higher seeds,as opposed to being at a NCAA regional somewhere..?
I'm sure you know what you're talking about,but it amazes me that ANY school would balk at the chance to host a post-season game on their own dime,given the opportunity to do so.
The system needs a lot of work,IMO.The cart and the horse are miles apart.
Even those played on on-campus sites of the higher seeds,as opposed to being at a NCAA regional somewhere..?
I'm sure you know what you're talking about,but it amazes me that ANY school would balk at the chance to host a post-season game on their own dime,given the opportunity to do so.
The system needs a lot of work,IMO.The cart and the horse are miles apart.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Game at campus sites are considered NCAA regional games. The NCAA rents the site from the host, and pays all expenses.
The procedure is the same for all DIII sports. You can't change it just for hockey without the approval of the NCAA's DIII governance structure. As far as DIII is concerned, all sports are created equal.
Game at campus sites are considered NCAA regional games. The NCAA rents the site from the host, and pays all expenses.
The procedure is the same for all DIII sports. You can't change it just for hockey without the approval of the NCAA's DIII governance structure. As far as DIII is concerned, all sports are created equal.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
I am not sure it this topic has been approached yet here but if UC gets into the SUNY's and Canton looking to maybe get in too how will the teams fair for getting new travel partners? Will UC hook up with Genny, or Morrisville. Will Potsdam and Canton travel and where will this leave the Cards or will Oswego and Potsdam hook up. But it will be all good for the SUNYAC will be getting a high quality team which will only make the conference better. Wouldn't it something if NY brought back the old NYState league, sorry RIT fans. I'm sure Bakdraft would mind seening that league again.
Oswego '89
I am not sure it this topic has been approached yet here but if UC gets into the SUNY's and Canton looking to maybe get in too how will the teams fair for getting new travel partners? Will UC hook up with Genny, or Morrisville. Will Potsdam and Canton travel and where will this leave the Cards or will Oswego and Potsdam hook up. But it will be all good for the SUNYAC will be getting a high quality team which will only make the conference better. Wouldn't it something if NY brought back the old NYState league, sorry RIT fans. I'm sure Bakdraft would mind seening that league again.
Oswego '89
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
Every fan in the ECAC West is clamoring for that league to be reborn. Unfortunately, without two automatic bids being formed from the league, I don't see it happening. It doesn't benefit the SUNYAC at all to absorb the five ECAC West teams unless two conferences are created.
Every fan in the ECAC West is clamoring for that league to be reborn. Unfortunately, without two automatic bids being formed from the league, I don't see it happening. It doesn't benefit the SUNYAC at all to absorb the five ECAC West teams unless two conferences are created.
Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column
When there was a "Greater" NY conference there wasn't 2 divisions I don't think. From the old ECAC league there was RIT, Canisius, Hobart, Hamilton, Union, EC, and the SUNAYC teams. Plus if there was 2 divisions that would extend the conference playoffs by one more week for the overall championship. And would the NCAA place 2 AC bids in such a large conference with 2 divisional winners?? In the 70's & 80's there use to be the SUNY playoffs followed by the NY State League followed by the NCAA's. The "Greater" NY league was just an idea for thoughts and comments.
Oswego '89
When there was a "Greater" NY conference there wasn't 2 divisions I don't think. From the old ECAC league there was RIT, Canisius, Hobart, Hamilton, Union, EC, and the SUNAYC teams. Plus if there was 2 divisions that would extend the conference playoffs by one more week for the overall championship. And would the NCAA place 2 AC bids in such a large conference with 2 divisional winners?? In the 70's & 80's there use to be the SUNY playoffs followed by the NY State League followed by the NCAA's. The "Greater" NY league was just an idea for thoughts and comments.
Oswego '89