Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Nice work,dissecting my post and explaining a few things.You shoulda been a surgeon!

FWIW,I wouldn't mind the weak-sister AQ's as much,if the field was expanded to 16 teams.Too often,really good teams stay at home in the current format,while the Blowman States of the world get a chance to lace 'em up and be cannon-fodder.(And 4-team regionals are really fun,which is otherwise pretty hard to come by here in Upstate in the winter.)

Interesting and informative post.Thanks for taking the time.

But a 16 team field would require a special dispensation for hockey as the 6.5:1 ratio is used for all DIII sports.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

But a 16 team field would require a special dispensation for hockey as the 6.5:1 ratio is used for all DIII sports.

Please explain..?

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Please explain..?

For every 6.5 teams seeking that at-large bid, there is 1 at large bid available. This is the regulation keeping 16-team format from becoming reality, and this is also the regulation that will cause the disappearance of the Pool B bid from DIII hockey after the MASCAC gets its AQ next year, as only 5 (or 4) teams would be vying for it.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

For every 6.5 teams seeking that at-large bid, there is 1 at large bid available. This is the regulation keeping 16-team format from becoming reality, and this is also the regulation that will cause the disappearance of the Pool B bid from DIII hockey after the MASCAC gets its AQ next year, as only 5 (or 4) teams would be vying for it.

Nate - slight correction. For every 6.5 teams sponsoring the sport there is 1 slot in any NCAA D3 tournament. The at large bids are allocated after the Pool A (AQ bids) and Pool B (independent and conferences not qualifying for an AQ) are allowed for. Current the ratio allows 11 teams in the NCAA tournament. The NCAA uses this rule for all D3 sports. 16 might be a nicer number, but the NCAA would have to make a huge exception for hockey - that will not happen. It would be tough to even get to a more balanced bracket of 12 teams. With the departure of LVC, we are currently a half a team under the number required for 11 teams, but the NCAA hasn't taken the 11th team away.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Nate - slight correction. For every 6.5 teams sponsoring the sport there is 1 slot in any NCAA D3 tournament. The at large bids are allocated after the Pool A (AQ bids) and Pool B (independent and conferences not qualifying for an AQ) are allowed for. Current the ratio allows 11 teams in the NCAA tournament. The NCAA uses this rule for all D3 sports. 16 might be a nicer number, but the NCAA would have to make a huge exception for hockey - that will not happen. It would be tough to even get to a more balanced bracket of 12 teams. With the departure of LVC, we are currently a half a team under the number required for 11 teams, but the NCAA hasn't taken the 11th team away.

Golf and tennis have an exception (they have a better ratio), and football has a maximum of 32 teams in the tournament no matter how many schools play the sport.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Golf and tennis have an exception (they have a better ratio), and football has a maximum of 32 teams in the tournament no matter how many schools play the sport.

Golf and tennis are also to a certain extend a hybrid of individual and team sports. Expanding FB beyond a 32 team bracket would force the creation a 6 round tournament in a sport where you can't play more than one game a week, so those exceptions make sense. An exception for men's ice hockey is not gonna happen.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Why does this rule exist?Doesn't make any sense to me...

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Why does this rule exist?Doesn't make any sense to me...

I'm sorry, but comments like that belong in this thread.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I'm sorry, but comments like that belong in this thread.

Thank you!

While I acknowledge that there might well be some logical basis for this particular rule,I gotta say that,in general,the D-3 selection process is convoluted and arcane.I would prefer to see some element of objectivity employed in the process.(To wit,at least a measured use of the PWR.)

 

[joecct]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Thank you!

While I acknowledge that there might well be some logical basis for this particular rule,I gotta say that,in general,the D-3 selection process is convoluted and arcane.I would prefer to see some element of objectivity employed in the process.(To wit,at least a measured use of the PWR.)

It is mostly objective. We know the criteria
Win %
Strength of Schedule (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOWP)
Common Opponents
Head to Head
Record vs. Ranked teams

What we DON'T know is what the weights are.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

It is mostly objective. We know the criteria
Win %
Strength of Schedule (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOWP)
Common Opponents
Head to Head
Record vs. Ranked teams

What we DON'T know is what the weights are.

So,it's pretty much the PWR,which is better than a beauty contest,for sure...

I just object to all the AQ's in such a small field,when,in more years than not,there are several at-large teams that are more deserving of a bid than a few of the "qualifiers".

Thanks for the info,Joe.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

It is mostly objective. We know the criteria
Win %
Strength of Schedule (2/3 OWP, 1/3 OOWP)
Common Opponents
Head to Head
Record vs. Ranked teams

What we DON'T know is what the weights are.

And the fact of the matter is that there is the suspicion that the weights change to make the decisions turn out to match the committee's subjective view. Sometimes it seems to change from week to week as the region rankings evolve.

As a stat guy, I'd prefer total transparency and having the committee announce the weights ahead of time. They'd still have the opportunity to tinker with the seedings and pairings all they want to meet the travel restrictions. Let's at least be able to know how teams got in. Pairings don't really matter - once you are in, you have to beat anybody who shows up on the same sheet of ice as you happen to be on. It matters to the fans, because everybody wants home ice and wants the best chance to get to the frozen four, but from a competitive standpoint, if you get a tough match up in the early rounds and lose, well, you weren't going to win it all anyway.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I don't remember if this has been posted but, when was the last time you saw THIS:

[B]	[U]Conference[/U]	[U]Overall[/U]
Team 	W-L-T	Pct	W-L-T	Pct[/B]
Elmira	3-2-0	.600	9-5-3	.618
Neumann	3-2-0	.600	9-5-3	.618
Hobart	2-2-0	.500	11-4-1	.719
Utica	2-2-0	.500	13-4-0	.765
M'ville	1-3-0	.250	13-3-1	.794

A Few things to point out:
-This is the current conference standings as reported on the USCHO DIII standing page
-Not 1 team under .600 in overall. That is definitely impressive, although many of these will drop once conference play resumes.
-The conference standings are still WIDE OPEN, with everybody within 4 points of 1st. This will probably go down to the wire.
-THe most interesting, though, is this: Look at the overall percentages. Opposite order of Conference Standings. When was the last time you saw this???

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

It'd probably be next to impossible to find that happen in a league of atleast five teams happen again.

Although I'm sure norm is scouring the internet currently to try and find this.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

I don't remember if this has been posted but, when was the last time you saw THIS:

[B]	[U]Conference[/U]	[U]Overall[/U]
Team 	W-L-T	Pct	W-L-T	Pct[/B]
Elmira	3-2-0	.600	9-5-3	.618
Neumann	3-2-0	.600	9-5-3	.618
Hobart	2-2-0	.500	11-4-1	.719
Utica	2-2-0	.500	13-4-0	.765
M'ville	1-3-0	.250	13-3-1	.794

A Few things to point out:
-This is the current conference standings as reported on the USCHO DIII standing page
-Not 1 team under .600 in overall. That is definitely impressive, although many of these will drop once conference play resumes.
-The conference standings are still WIDE OPEN, with everybody within 4 points of 1st. This will probably go down to the wire.
-THe most interesting, though, is this: Look at the overall percentages. Opposite order of Conference Standings. When was the last time you saw this???

Any decent team should be able to win the majority of their games against Utica's and Manhatanvills powerful NC schedule....

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Any decent team should be able to win the majority of their games against Utica's and Manhatanvills powerful NC schedule....

Elmira, Neumann and Manhattanville all have wins over Morrisville, which Plattsburgh cannot say the same.

Hobart and Utica hold wins over Buffalo State, which Plattsburgh cannot say the same.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Elmira, Neumann and Manhattanville all have wins over Morrisville, which Plattsburgh cannot say the same.

Hobart and Utica hold wins over Buffalo State, which Plattsburgh cannot say the same.

....At this time....what's your argument going to be when Plattsburgh walks all over the little Ponies and in the Buff Stateless??

Utica
Franklin Pierce x2
Brockport
Curry
Westfield State
Curry
Cortland
Suffolk
Wentworth
Buff State x2
Oswego x2

At worst should be 8-4/ 9-3

Manhatanville
Potsdam x2
Fredonia x2
Western New England
Amherst
Williams
Conn College
Adrian
Norwich
Cortland
Morrisville
Curry

At worst 9-4

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

....At this time....what's your argument going to be when Plattsburgh walks all over the little Ponies and in the Buff Stateless??

Utica
Franklin Pierce x2
Brockport
Curry
Westfield State
Curry
Cortland
Suffolk
Wentworth
Buff State x2
Oswego x2

At worst should be 8-4/ 9-3

Manhatanville
Potsdam x2
Fredonia x2
Western New England
Amherst
Williams
Conn College
Adrian
Norwich
Cortland
Morrisville
Curry

At worst 9-4

Because of the fact each of them play 12 games against top 15 caliber teams in the country in just their conference, I don't see why they need to schedule ridiculously hard NC games like Plattsburgh, Oswego, and Norwich are forced to do because their leagues are weaker.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Elmira, Neumann and Manhattanville all have wins over Morrisville, which Plattsburgh cannot say the same.

Hobart and Utica hold wins over Buffalo State, which Plattsburgh cannot say the same.

We all know the Plattsburgh had problems early on. So, what does this mean about Norwich who Plattsburgh beat twice?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

We all know the Plattsburgh had problems early on. So, what does this mean about Norwich who Plattsburgh beat twice?

Norwich has had its own issues too? There's no denying that.

Where have I said Norwich was better than Plattsburgh? Clearly we aren't right now with the two losses. If these two teams keep on their path that they are going though right now I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a quarterfinal game involving Wick and Plattsburgh.

Now, the last two weekends they look like they might be starting to put the pieces of the puzzle together. We'll see if there is a let down this weekend in two games they probably should win on paper against Wesleyan and Trinity. But, to tell you the truth, the Wesleyan game scares the crap out of me. They have been playing EVERYONE close this year. They may not be racking up the W's but they are going to battle you for 60-65 minutes tooth and nail in a close game.

I've said my piece about my rankings. Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree on them. However, I put a lot more thought into who has beaten who rather than what their name is or how the USCHO.com poll ranks them.