Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Of course, the biggest problem is that nobody outside of the ECAC-West conference (and one might even say some within the conference) gives a cr@p about the teams in the ECAC-West.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Of course, the biggest problem is that nobody outside of the ECAC-West conference (and one might even say some within the conference) gives a cr@p about the teams in the ECAC-West.

You mean like, Utica - who is trying to toss the other 4 teams under the bus?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Of course, the biggest problem is that nobody outside of the ECAC-West conference (and one might even say some within the conference) gives a cr@p about the teams in the ECAC-West.

Why should they?

We live in a me first world with everyone looking out for themselves before anyone else. I don't blame the other conferences for not wanting to bring the ECAC West teams in. Every other conference has an autobid already. (Starting next year when the MASCAC gets it) They don't gain anything by accepting ECAC West teams except a tougher path to get to the NCAA Tournament.

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

You mean like, Utica - who is trying to toss the other 4 teams under the bus?

I did not mention names, but if the shoe fits........

Edit: Of course one might say that Utica was just the first league member to "wake up and smell the coffee."

 

[jconnor]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

You mean like, Utica - who is trying to toss the other 4 teams under the bus?

I think that's it! Utica hasn't been a consistent power in the ECAC-W so maybe they want to become a #3 team in a larger league, makes them look better.

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Why should they?

We live in a me first world with everyone looking out for themselves before anyone else. I don't blame the other conferences for not wanting to bring the ECAC West teams in. Every other conference has an autobid already. (Starting next year when the MASCAC gets it) They don't gain anything by accepting ECAC West teams except a tougher path to get to the NCAA Tournament.

This is an ECAC (parent organization) problem.

It is interesting that when you go to www.ecac.org you find a link to ECACDIIIHOCKEY.COM were the link says "For the latest news, statistics, and results about the five ECAC Division III hockey leagues." (Three men's leagues and two women's leagues.) Taking that link takes you to The Official Site of ECAC Division III Hockey where you find the slogan "It's My ECAC, It's Your ECAC, It's Our ECAC."

The ECAC needs to step up and take care of it. If that requires the ECAC to involve the ECAC member schools who are SUNYAC hockey schools, well OK. But ultimately, the ECAC needs to find a solution.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The ECAC needs to step up and take care of it. If that requires the ECAC to involve the ECAC member schools who are SUNYAC hockey schools, well OK. But ultimately, the ECAC needs to find a solution.

From what I've been told though, they can't. They have no power over alignment.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The ECAC needs to step up and take care of it. If that requires the ECAC to involve the ECAC member schools who are SUNYAC hockey schools, well OK. But ultimately, the ECAC needs to find a solution.

The ECAC has no power whatsoever over the SUNYAC schools.

They belong to the SUNYAC and abide by all SUNYAC rules and regulations. Not the ECAC's.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

To me there's an obvious solution.

Morrisville is a hockey-only member of the SUNYAC as I recall. They could easily join the ECAC W
Canton is transitioning to DIII. They could join the ECAC W, since I think they were planning on the same kind of hockey only status in SUNYAC as Mo'ville has. 5+2 = 7 Bob's your uncle

or am I missing something obvious here?

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The ECAC has no power whatsoever over the SUNYAC schools.

They belong to the SUNYAC and abide by all SUNYAC rules and regulations. Not the ECAC's.

The SUNY schools are, in fact, members of the ECAC. As are Norwich University, Middlebury College and 180 other schools.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

To me there's an obvious solution.

Morrisville is a hockey-only member of the SUNYAC as I recall. They could easily join the ECAC W
Canton is transitioning to DIII. They could join the ECAC W, since I think they were planning on the same kind of hockey only status in SUNYAC as Mo'ville has. 5+2 = 7 Bob's your uncle

or am I missing something obvious here?

Why would Morrisville leave the SUNYAC where they are centrally located and have already established themselves as a legitimate team where they have to basically only deal with Oswego, Plattsburgh, and in some years Geneseo to go to the ECAC West where Elmira, Manhattanville, Neumann, Utica, and Hobart are all top-15 caliber teams.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially when they are in the SUNY system.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Why would Morrisville leave the SUNYAC where they are centrally located and have already established themselves as a legitimate team where they have to basically only deal with Oswego, Plattsburgh, and in some years Geneseo to go to the ECAC West where Elmira, Manhattanville, Neumann, Utica, and Hobart are all top-15 caliber teams.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially when they are in the SUNY system.

Maybe it doesn't make sense for them, but it makes sense for the SUNYAC - get back to an 8 team league, get rid of the oddball schedule that is caused by the odd number of teams, makes the league consist only of full members of the SUNYAC. Throw them under the bus by going back to the in for a penny, in for a pound membership rule.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Why would Morrisville leave the SUNYAC where they are centrally located and have already established themselves as a legitimate team where they have to basically only deal with Oswego, Plattsburgh, and in some years Geneseo to go to the ECAC West where Elmira, Manhattanville, Neumann, Utica, and Hobart are all top-15 caliber teams.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially when they are in the SUNY system.

Maybe it doesn't make sense for them, but it makes sense for the SUNYAC - get back to an 8 team league, get rid of the oddball schedule that is caused by the odd number of teams, makes the league consist only of full members of the SUNYAC. Throw them under the bus by going back to the in for a penny, in for a pound membership rule.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

Why would Morrisville leave the SUNYAC where they are centrally located and have already established themselves as a legitimate team where they have to basically only deal with Oswego, Plattsburgh, and in some years Geneseo to go to the ECAC West where Elmira, Manhattanville, Neumann, Utica, and Hobart are all top-15 caliber teams.

Doesn't make much sense. Especially when they are in the SUNY system.

Hey Prez I see you are looking for Platts season tiks, if ya get'em PLEASE lose the one for the 29th.......thnks

 

[Dyce]

Re: Try this?

Re: Try this?

Would they have to deal with the issue concerning single sport conferences? Seems like that could be an issue

I most certainly agree. The simple "Utica-only" situation isn't a problem, because Utica is officially an "orphan" team when it comes to hockey: The Empire 8 doesn't sponsor hockey, so they're free to go to whomever will take them. It's essentially the same apparatus that lets Morrisville play in the SUNYAC: NEAC hockey doesn't exist, so Morrisville is good to go as a SUNYAC member.

If however, the SUNYAC teams see fit to chop themselves into whatever pieces they'd like, they must remain members of one, multi-sport conference, and therefore offer one AQ for that conference, no matter how many teams or divisions they add. The only way to get around this would be for the SUNYAC to officially renounce sponsorship of hockey, which would allow them to create a pair of (pretty thinly veiled) conferences from the ECAC-West membership and the newly "orphaned" SUNYAC teams. I don't see the SUNYAC commissioner's office being very eager to drop a sport it's sponsored for decades, and I would imagine the NCAA would have more than a few words to say about killing a stable, successful conference in order to create an extra potential AQ for its schools. At least that's my understanding

Also, on the SUNYAC-ECAC relationship: Russell is absolutely right (naturally ). Any conference that uses ECAC officials, or participates in their NIT-style postseason championships in some sports, is listed as a member. Those two things are all that the SUNYAC takes from the relationship; the ECAC has absolutely no administrative influence over the SUNYAC.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Try this?

Re: Try this?

I most certainly agree. The simple "Utica-only" situation isn't a problem, because Utica is officially an "orphan" team when it comes to hockey: The Empire 8 doesn't sponsor hockey, so they're free to go to whomever will take them. It's essentially the same apparatus that lets Morrisville play in the SUNYAC: NEAC hockey doesn't exist, so Morrisville is good to go as a SUNYAC member.

If however, the SUNYAC teams see fit to chop themselves into whatever pieces they'd like, they must remain members of one, multi-sport conference, and therefore offer one AQ for that conference, no matter how many teams or divisions they add. The only way to get around this would be for the SUNYAC to officially renounce sponsorship of hockey, which would allow them to create a pair of (pretty thinly veiled) conferences from the ECAC-West membership and the newly "orphaned" SUNYAC teams. I don't see the SUNYAC commissioner's office being very eager to drop a sport it's sponsored for decades, and I would imagine the NCAA would have more than a few words to say about killing a stable, successful conference in order to create an extra potential AQ for its schools. At least that's my understanding

Also, on the SUNYAC-ECAC relationship: Russell is absolutely right (naturally ). Any conference that uses ECAC officials, or participates in their NIT-style postseason championships in some sports, is listed as a member. Those two things are all that the SUNYAC takes from the relationship; the ECAC has absolutely no administrative influence over the SUNYAC.

My sense is that this would be considered an "umbrella" situation - The ECAC situation is different. The three ECAC hockey leagues have always operated independently, but the proposed solution seems to match pretty much the kind of scheme that the NCAA saw with the attempt of a league to get two Football autobids.

 

[Dyce]

Re: Try this?

Re: Try this?

My sense is that this would be considered an "umbrella" situation - The ECAC situation is different. The three ECAC hockey leagues have always operated independently, but the proposed solution seems to match pretty much the kind of scheme that the NCAA saw with the attempt of a league to get two Football autobids.

Oh, absolutely. The original conception of the separate ECAC conferences made perfect sense from a number of standpoints: geography, level of play (at least originally, in the case of the N/C/S-turned-NE), the sheer number of programs whose primary conference didn't sponsor the sport. Moreover, the leagues were formed close to the inception of Division II/III hockey as a championship sport - now that there was a title to win, there had to be some logical set of multiple conferences to determine who should play for it. The SUNYAC, on the other hand, is a long-standing, multi-sport conference with a committed membership. Any rearrangement that would create an additional AQ for its membership would be pretty glaringly dishonest. The only way for the SUNYAC to split its membership is to offer a single AQ between two divisions containing non-SUNY schools, an option even more unlikely than their bothering to get involved with anything in the first place.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

The SUNY schools are, in fact, members of the ECAC. As are Norwich University, Middlebury College and 180 other schools.

I know.

But that's like saying they are members of the NCAA.

There are only two sports (I think) that the ECAC actively runs conferences in -- hockey and lacrosse. The rest of the schools are in the ECAC just like they are in the NCAA. The SUNYAC schools fall into that latter category. Ergo, the ECAC has no control over where they play.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Try this?

Re: Try this?

I don't see the SUNYAC commissioner's office being very eager to drop a sport it's sponsored for decades,

Plus, the hockey tournament makes more money for the SUNYAC than any other sport.

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Utica to the SUNYAC? - Biggar's Column

I know.

But that's like saying they are members of the NCAA.

There are only two sports (I think) that the ECAC actively runs conferences in -- hockey and lacrosse. The rest of the schools are in the ECAC just like they are in the NCAA. The SUNYAC schools fall into that latter category. Ergo, the ECAC has no control over where they play.

But...the slogan......"It's My ECAC, It's Your ECAC, It's Our ECAC,".....or is that like "everybody's Mary (or Julie, or Connie)?"