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TV 19 - Simpsons Did It

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Season three is very good. Not quite as good as season one, but much better than season two. Got some definite Hunt for Red October vibes.

I disagree with this.

I think Season 3 is fine entertainment, and worth the watch, but I think this series has definitely left the vibe of the original Jack Ryan character as written by Clancy, and as played in things like Hunt for Red October.

As written, the character was more cerebral in terms of solving problems, resorting only to hands on violence when forced into it. He wasn't some sort of action hero or character like Ethan Hunt from the MI stories. But this series has gone full on action hero status.
 
I disagree with this.

I think Season 3 is fine entertainment, and worth the watch, but I think this series has definitely left the vibe of the original Jack Ryan character as written by Clancy, and as played in things like Hunt for Red October.

As written, the character was more cerebral in terms of solving problems, resorting only to hands on violence when forced into it. He wasn't some sort of action hero or character like Ethan Hunt from the MI stories. But this series has gone full on action hero status.

This was my problem as well. There is no way the Amazon Jack Ryan is anything like the Baldwin Ryan and certainly not Ford. The point of the character was he WASNT an action hero. They were denigrated for being analysts and writing books. Baldwin even says it about himself in Red October multiple times! This version is just a generic "CIA Superhero" with Jack Ryan's name so Jim from The Office can look like a badazz...same issue with when Chris Pine played him.

Wendell Pierce though is worth the watch. He is always great.

I never read the books but I got the impression he wasn't a superhero in that either.
 
This was my problem as well. There is no way the Amazon Jack Ryan is anything like the Baldwin Ryan and certainly not Ford. The point of the character was he WASNT an action hero. They were denigrated for being analysts and writing books. Baldwin even says it about himself in Red October multiple times! This version is just a generic "CIA Superhero" with Jack Ryan's name so Jim from The Office can look like a badazz...same issue with when Chris Pine played him.

Wendell Pierce though is worth the watch. He is always great.

I never read the books but I got the impression he wasn't a superhero in that either.
“Next you get a bright idea Jack, put it in a d-n memo!”

Jack Ryan is the idealized version of what conservative paper pushers think of themselves as: A quiet, smart, rich person who sits in an office but who can pick up a gun at a moments notice and save the day.
 
“Next you get a bright idea Jack, put it in a d-n memo!”

Jack Ryan is the idealized version of what conservative paper pushers think of themselves as: A quiet, smart, rich person who sits in an office but who can pick up a gun at a moments notice and save the day.

The Ryanverse was another sign, like the Cult of Batman, of the non-ironic Starship Trooperism of America.
 
I disagree with this.

I think Season 3 is fine entertainment, and worth the watch, but I think this series has definitely left the vibe of the original Jack Ryan character as written by Clancy, and as played in things like Hunt for Red October.

As written, the character was more cerebral in terms of solving problems, resorting only to hands on violence when forced into it. He wasn't some sort of action hero or character like Ethan Hunt from the MI stories. But this series has gone full on action hero status.
Sure, but the writing is on the wall for all future shows that involve using old series. Watching current Star Trek shows is watching an action-adventure show. Through the 1990s, those shows were thoughtful and violence was the last recourse. Now it’s the only recourse.

Explosions get eyes and sell tickets or subscriptions.
 
I agree that the Ryan character has been bastardized but that started in S1. fwiw I just thought it's a better story than S2 setting aside the writers getting away from keeping Ryan in his lane.
 
Sure, but the writing is on the wall for all future shows that involve using old series. Watching current Star Trek shows is watching an action-adventure show. Through the 1990s, those shows were thoughtful and violence was the last recourse. Now it’s the only recourse.

Explosions get eyes and sell tickets or subscriptions.

Ummm I'm going to disagree with you on Star Trek...especially Deep Space Nine, Voyager and at least the last half of Next Gen.

TOS was only cerebral cause it had no budget or ability to do real special effects. Next Gen was that way at first but you can definitely see when it got more action oriented and every series since then has followed suit.
 
Sure, but the writing is on the wall for all future shows that involve using old series. Watching current Star Trek shows is watching an action-adventure show. Through the 1990s, those shows were thoughtful and violence was the last recourse. Now it’s the only recourse.

Explosions get eyes and sell tickets or subscriptions.

Yeah, in my opinion it's sort of the lazy way out by the writers. Even Clancy was guilty of it with the later Jack Ryan books.

It's hard to write a series of books involving the same characters where the basic nature of the characters never changes. It's hard because it's difficult to come up with new scenarios so you don't end up repeating things.

The same thing for movies. For instance, I thought the original The Fast and the Furious movie was enjoyable, for what it was. They've become unwatchable at this point, and have literally zero connection with anything associated with the first movie. Why? You can't make nine movies about street racers in L.A. and make them interesting. But, "money" says those movies need to be made.
 
TOS was only cerebral cause it had no budget or ability to do real special effects.

That isn't true at all. Roddenberry came out of the tradition of thinking SF: Asimov, Sturgeon, Ellison, Pohl, Aldiss. He was a cerebral idealist. Blam blam boom boom was just a way to broaden the show for the smooth brains so he could keep it on the air as long as he somehow managed to.

TOS actually has a scintilla of integrity. Bigger budgets nearly always result in pablum, as the money people get involved because there's too much at stake to risk on stories that are too intelligent and anger/confuse the average viewer.
 
This was my problem as well. There is no way the Amazon Jack Ryan is anything like the Baldwin Ryan and certainly not Ford. The point of the character was he WASNT an action hero. They were denigrated for being analysts and writing books. Baldwin even says it about himself in Red October multiple times! This version is just a generic "CIA Superhero" with Jack Ryan's name so Jim from The Office can look like a badazz...same issue with when Chris Pine played him.

Wendell Pierce though is worth the watch. He is always great.

I never read the books but I got the impression he wasn't a superhero in that either.

NOT ford? did you watch him go into the jungle to help clark save the platoon?

the books now are almost unreadable. the kid lays a different broad every mission, only now looking for a serious gf with the former/current colleague who lost an arm in a gunfight (but still turns away leering offer'ers)
 
NOT ford? did you watch him go into the jungle to help clark save the platoon?

the books now are almost unreadable. the kid lays a different broad every mission, only now looking for a serious gf with the former/current colleague who lost an arm in a gunfight (but still turns away leering offer'ers)

He is an old man who can barely stop from falling. Mookoe is out to lunch...
 
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Too bad, too, because Red October is excellent.

The rot set in when he disappeared up Shrub's rhizome. He, Card, and Scott Adams all sit together at the derp table now.
 
He is an old man who can barely stop from falling. Mookoe is out to lunch...

dude. he was made to moove like a pro in the ambush getting the secret service out of that alley. a well trained pro.

then being the suave double agent with the tobacco/coke kingpin.

mookoe is sitting at the head table eating dinner ;-)
 
The penultimate episode that season setting up Two Cathedrals (18th and Potomac) is just a gut punch. The series settled in and hit its stride in season two, and carries that into season five.

Favorite episodes from Season Three:
The Indians in the Lobby
Bartlett for America
Hartsfield Landing
Posse Comitatus

Favorites from Season Four.
20 Hours in America (pt1 and pt2) ** Best Episodes Ever
College Kids ** You will rage about this great episode
Election Night ** Best opener to the entire series
 
Yeah, the seasons where Sorkin left starting in season 5, while ok by normal television standards, were definitely a notch below seasons 2-4, though the last season picks back up a bit.

The one that gets me every time is the end of season 3.
 
“Game On” is a personal favorite of mine.

”$12.6 billion dollars out of a budget of $50 billion. I’m supposed to be using this time to ask a question so here it is: can we have it back?”
 
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