What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

PSUChamps2001 said:
The West has 4 wins over teams with a .650 winning %....might be even .550 I don't remember off the top of my head...I've explained it to you a million times, sos means crap when you have a league that racks up wins against mediocre competition. It raises everyone's sos because you then play those same "inflated nc win teams" 3 times.
Click to expand...

You haven't "explained" anything to anybody... The calculation of SOS is all about OW% and- to address your specious logic- OOW%. By definition, you can't have a strong SOS if you play a schedule composed of teams with weak records, whether directly or by proxy. And, of course, SOS does not recognize conference affiliations in any way; it is arrived-at strictly on the basis of the above criteria. What don't you understand about that?

(And, BTW, having looked at the updated KRACH, I think Hobart would get a Pool C if the season ended today, barring one or more surprise AQ's. So there.)
 
Last edited:
PSUChamps2001 said:
The West has 4 wins over teams with a .650 winning %....might be even .550 I don't remember off the top of my head...I've explained it to you a million times, sos means crap when you have a league that racks up wins against mediocre competition. It raises everyone's sos because you then play those same "inflated nc win teams" 3 times.
Click to expand...

I think Hobart is creeping back into the Pool C discussion.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
I think Hobart is creeping back into the Pool C discussion.
Click to expand...


Hobarts pretty much out, no pool C for them. Mark my words
teams that would get in over them:

Oswego or Plattsburgh
Trinity or Amherst
Norwich or Babson
Adrian or SNC

Pool B is going WIAC

If you look at the teams who should be ranked they won't have any wins over any ranked teams
 
Last edited:
OSU2010 said:
Hobarts pretty much out, no pool C for them. Mark my words
teams that would get in over them:

Oswego or Plattsburgh
Trinity or Amherst
Norwich or Babson
Adrian or SNC

Pool B is going WIAC

If you look at the teams who should be ranked they won't have any wins over any ranked teams
Click to expand...

What about a WIAC for Pool C?
 
joecct said:
What about a WIAC for Pool C?
Click to expand...

That's possible as well I'm just listing teams who would get a pool c before Hobart, I got to more than 4 and stopped. Imagine if a Middlebury or Brockport won the pool A in their conference. You'd be looking at two teams in one conference looking for that pool C, both of which would beat out Hobart. The point I'm trying to make is Hobart realistically has very little if no chance of a pool C
 
OSU2010 said:
That's possible as well I'm just listing teams who would get a pool c before Hobart, I got to more than 4 and stopped. Imagine if a Middlebury or Brockport won the pool A in their conference. You'd be looking at two teams in one conference looking for that pool C, both of which would beat out Hobart. The point I'm trying to make is Hobart realistically has very little if no chance of a pool C
Click to expand...

I haven't sat down and figured out what the breakdown is,but one thing to remember is all of the other teams will also have to lose at least one more game. Hobart does not
 
OSU2010 said:
That's possible as well I'm just listing teams who would get a pool c before Hobart, I got to more than 4 and stopped. Imagine if a Middlebury or Brockport won the pool A in their conference. You'd be looking at two teams in one conference looking for that pool C, both of which would beat out Hobart. The point I'm trying to make is Hobart realistically has very little if no chance of a pool C
Click to expand...

I didn't say they were there yet...I said i think they are creeping into the discussion if they keep this up.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

OSU2010 said:
That's possible as well I'm just listing teams who would get a pool c before Hobart, I got to more than 4 and stopped. Imagine if a Middlebury or Brockport won the pool A in their conference. You'd be looking at two teams in one conference looking for that pool C, both of which would beat out Hobart. The point I'm trying to make is Hobart realistically has very little if no chance of a pool C
Click to expand...

Hobart is a longshot, no question about it. I don’t believe they have any chance of taking a Pool C from Oswego, Trinity, Norwich or Amherst...so if more than one of those teams ends up in the mix for Pool C Hobart is done. However, there is still some hockey left to play and there are some scenarios that could unfold that leave them stacking up (in terms of the 5 primary criteria) a little better than you may expect against some of the other teams you list. First and foremost, if they lose their tourney, they’re done. But if Hobart ran the table or only lose one more RS game and won their tourney, they would finish 21-6 or 20-7. IF (big IF) that happens...

vs Babson: Hobart could take win% and SOS...Babson takes RnK and COP....2-2 tie
vs Platty: Hobart could take win % and SOS...Platty would take RnK and COP could be very tight - potential 2-2 tie or 3-1 to Hobart
vs Adrian: Hobart takes SOS and COP, Adrian takes win% and RnK...2-2 tie
vs SNC: Hobart could take win% and SOS, SNC would take Rnk,...2-1 Hobart

Obviously, there are a lot of ifs in all of this. But if Hobart were in the conversation, they'd 15-2 or 14-3 since the new year - which shouldn't amount to anything in terms of criteria but it could help the room get smoky. Also, I assume Stevens Point will take the Pool B but let’s not forget River Falls or Eau Claire could also potentially bounce Hobart for a Pool C if it came down to it.
Don't get me wrong - while this post seems borderline delusional I do know it is not looking good for Hobart. :( My only point is I don’t think they are eliminated just yet.
 
llama said:
Hobart is a longshot, no question about it. I don’t believe they have any chance of taking a Pool C from Oswego, Trinity, Norwich or Amherst...so if more than one of those teams ends up in the mix for Pool C Hobart is done. However, there is still some hockey left to play and there are some scenarios that could unfold that leave them stacking up (in terms of the 5 primary criteria) a little better than you may expect against some of the other teams you list. First and foremost, if they lose their tourney, they’re done. But if Hobart ran the table or only lose one more RS game and won their tourney, they would finish 21-6 or 20-7. IF (big IF) that happens...

vs Babson: Hobart could take win% and SOS...Babson takes RnK and COP....2-2 tie
vs Platty: Hobart could take win % and SOS...Platty would take RnK and COP could be very tight - potential 2-2 tie or 3-1 to Hobart
vs Adrian: Hobart takes SOS and COP, Adrian takes win% and RnK...2-2 tie
vs SNC: Hobart could take win% and SOS, SNC would take Rnk,...2-1 Hobart

Obviously, there are a lot of ifs in all of this. But if Hobart were in the conversation, they'd 15-2 or 14-3 since the new year - which shouldn't amount to anything in terms of criteria but it could help the room get smoky. Also, I assume Stevens Point will take the Pool B but let’s not forget River Falls or Eau Claire could also potentially bounce Hobart for a Pool C if it came down to it.
Don't get me wrong - while this post seems borderline delusional I do know it is not looking good for Hobart. :( My only point is I don’t think they are eliminated just yet.
Click to expand...

But look at who Hobart has beat who could be ranked, none of the other ecac-w teams will be ranked. They've lost to both Trinity and Oswego who will be ranked. The only other team who they've beat who might be ranked is Nichols, and they'll probably only get ranked because they'll most likely win their pool A and have to be ranked in the last secret ranking
 
OSU2010 said:
But look at who Hobart has beat who could be ranked, none of the other ecac-w teams will be ranked. They've lost to both Trinity and Oswego who will be ranked. The only other team who they've beat who might be ranked is Nichols, and they'll probably only get ranked because they'll most likely win their pool A and have to be ranked in the last secret ranking
Click to expand...

No argument there - you are correct and Hobart will concede that point against anyone they are compared against. However, record vs ranked teams is only one of the primary criteria. The "smoky" part is just how heavy the committee will weight that criteria vs the others...
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

And the rankings are weighted at the whim of the committee, not based on any cut-and-dried criteria IIRC, is that right..? If that's the case, it's hard to say who'll be ranked based upon what, but during the last couple of years there seems to be some unspoken attention being paid to the KRACH, in which HC is currently 5th in the East.
 
Last edited:
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

llama said:
No argument there - you are correct and Hobart will concede that point against anyone they are compared against. However, record vs ranked teams is only one of the primary criteria. The "smoky" part is just how heavy the committee will weight that criteria vs the others...
Click to expand...

Smoke generator.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Fishman'81 said:
And the rankings are weighted at the whim of the committee, not based on any cut-and-dried criteria IIRC, is that right..? If that's the case, it's hard to say who'll be ranked based upon what, but during the last couple of years there seems to be some unspoken attention being paid to the KRACH, in which HC is currently 5th in the East.
Click to expand...

Never can tell what the committee is thinking - don't forget last year the last released rankings from the NCAA had Trinity at #1 in the East and then one week later they didn't include them in the tourney! :eek:
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

llama said:
Never can tell what the committee is thinking - don't forget last year the last released rankings from the NCAA had Trinity at #1 in the East and then one week later they didn't include them in the tourney! :eek:
Click to expand...
Trinity's OOC was tenuous at best. Then they lost to an unranked team in the NESCAC semis. Downfall.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

llama said:
vs SNC: Hobart could take win% and SOS, SNC would take Rnk,...2-1 Hobart
Click to expand...

They currently have the same win% and SNC has played against 6 ranked teams (2-3-1) to Hobart's 2 ranked teams (0-2-0). SNC's record against unranked teams is 13-2-1 (both losses to teams that have received votes or been ranked at some point this season). Hobart's record against unranked teams is 16-4 (three of four losses to teams that have not been ranked or received votes at any point this season). Hobart's highest ranking this season was #15. SNC sat at #1 for 10 of 13 weeks this season. Plus, there is the possible "right to defend a national championship" vote that might come into play if teams are on the bubble. I don't see how Hobart has the SOS over SNC, but if that is what the computers say I guess we'll go with that. With all that being said, if SNC drops one of their remaining two to Northland and makes an early exit in the NCHA tournament, I don't see how they can get in.

SNC is currently sitting at 5 losses. If they take care of business in the final weekend and don't win their tournament, the worst that could happen is that they finish with 6 losses on the year. In last year's NCAA tournament six of the eleven teams in the tournament had 6 or more losses on the year. The pool B was Stevens Point (5 losses). The pool C's were Adrian (2 losses), Geneseo (6 losses) and Babson (4 losses). A long shot, but if the teams that are supposed to win, do win their conference tournaments I can see SNC getting a Pool C should they come up short…especially if they make it to the conference championship game.
 
Last edited:
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

snc11 said:
They currently have the same win% and SNC has played against a 6 ranked teams (2-3-1) to Hobart's two ranked teams (0-2-0). SNC's record against unranked teams for 13-2-1 (both losses to teams that have received votes or been ranked at some point this season). Hobart's record against unranked teams is 16-4 (three of four losses to teams that have not been ranked or received votes at any point this season). Hobart's highest ranking this season was #15. SNC sat at #1 for 10 of 13 weeks this season. Plus, there is the possible "right to defend a national championship" vote that might come into play if teams are on the bubble. I don't see how Hobart has the SOS over SNC, but if that is what the computers say I guess we'll go with that. With all that being said, if SNC drops one of their remaining two to Northland and makes an early exit in the NCHA tournament, I don't see how they can get in.

SNC is currently sitting at 5 losses. If they take care of business in the final weekend and don't win their tournament, the worst that could happen is that they finish with 6 losses on the year. In last year's NCAA tournament six of the ten teams in the tournament had 6 or more losses on the year.
Click to expand...
Remember...no one is ranked yet ! The NCAA uses their rankings...not the USCHO poll !
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top