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The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
The SUNYAC has built in advantages to the regular season.

The ECAC East and the NESCAC do not other than home ice basically. All eight Division III ECAC East teams make the playoffs and the only advantage is home ice. The NESCAC two teams miss the playoffs but after that, no advantage other than home ice.
Click to expand...

Personally, I love playoff systems with byes built into them. Really makes the regular season meaningful for the top teams. I love the NFL system and would love if the NBA/NHL would adopt the top 6 in each conference (which they understandably won't with the money that more games bring in). With the expansion of the College Football Playoffs, I hope they expand to 6 teams instead of 8 teams.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

A couple of observations:

1. USCHO.com still hasn't posted the NCAA rankings.

2. Pool C is a necessary evil for the continuance of conference tournaments. If Pool C weren't a possibility, I think most conferences would do away with the post season tourney and send their best team to the NCAAs. Pool C encourages the excitement of conference tourneys, while allowing a coveted second chance to someone that didn't win the post season tourney. I like Pool C, even if it generates lots of grief and acid indigestion every year around this time.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Ozz said:
Personally, I love playoff systems with byes built into them. Really makes the regular season meaningful for the top teams. I love the NFL system and would love if the NBA/NHL would adopt the top 6 in each conference (which they understandably won't with the money that more games bring in). With the expansion of the College Football Playoffs, I hope they expand to 6 teams instead of 8 teams.
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying I liked/disliked the ECAC East/NESCAC format as opposed to the SUNYAC. Just stating fact that not all conference reward the regular season the same as others do.
 
Re: Sir Skepticism

Re: Sir Skepticism

Dyce said:
He did prove it. He provided examples. Two of them. And in any case, the onus should not be on him to disprove what amounts to a conspiracy theory. Show me one example of a team that was, in all probability, left out due to its location. One. Ever. Hell, throw in the old DII championships as well if that helps (it doesn't). Nobody, in the 15 years this ridiculous claim has bounced around the forum, has ever managed to do it, and yet somebody seriously argues for it every. single. year.
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This is the reason that I spend a truly foolish amount of time on this site every year at this time.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I would argue about your opinion that the SUNYAC has built in advantages. In fact, I see it the other way as teams like Norwich get a cream puff game in the 1st round (and possibly the 2nd) as a huge advantage in the L25 criteria while Oswego/Plattsburgh don't get that gift "W". I'd rather have no buys in the 1st round and play a Potsdam for the freebie and wipe the Geneseo loss from the L25 slate. That extra game can be an easy win as well as change the L25 from 6-1 to 7-0.


PrezdeJohnson09 said:
The SUNYAC has built in advantages to the regular season.

The ECAC East and the NESCAC do not other than home ice basically. All eight Division III ECAC East teams make the playoffs and the only advantage is home ice. The NESCAC two teams miss the playoffs but after that, no advantage other than home ice.
Click to expand...
 
Cards81 said:
I would argue about your opinion that the SUNYAC has built in advantages. In fact, I see it the other way as teams like Norwich get a cream puff game in the 1st round (and possibly the 2nd) as a huge advantage in the L25 criteria while Oswego/Plattsburgh don't get that gift "W". I'd rather have no buys in the 1st round and play a Potsdam for the freebie and wipe the Geneseo loss from the L25 slate. That extra game can be an easy win as well as change the L25 from 6-1 to 7-0.
Click to expand...

Fair point.
 
elbojpb said:
IIRC ... Stevens Point were left out a few years back when their resume was much stronger than an Eastern team.
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Wrong again. In 2000 Stevens Point was left out when Concordia-Moorhead won the MIAC Tournament. St. Thomas got the only at-large in the tournament that year. UWSP hadn't been an NCAA contender again after that until last year.

Nice try though.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

To be fair, I'm pretty sure elbo's talking about '02, when Bowdoin eked out a berth over the Pointers after both lost in their conference semis. A comparison as close as theirs apparently was that year would understandably sow some resentment, especially since it was DIII's first nine-team tournament, and the NCAA stuck the two Western teams in the play-in (which, once again, is more a confirmation of their tendency to trim travel through matchups than anything else). I've no doubt that the integrity of the field was argued based on that, but it was ultimately a pretty clear case of Bowdoin winning a close comparison.

edit: Thanks to Ed and norm's rediscovery of the Hockey3 archives, I was able to check out the buzz at the time. As far as I can tell, Bowdoin beat UWSP handily in WIN, UWSP torched Bowdoin in SOS, and everybody seemed way more upset at the play-in thing than the Bowdoin pick.
 
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Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Cards81 said:
I would argue about your opinion that the SUNYAC has built in advantages. In fact, I see it the other way as teams like Norwich get a cream puff game in the 1st round (and possibly the 2nd) as a huge advantage in the L25 criteria while Oswego/Plattsburgh don't get that gift "W". I'd rather have no buys in the 1st round and play a Potsdam for the freebie and wipe the Geneseo loss from the L25 slate. That extra game can be an easy win as well as change the L25 from 6-1 to 7-0.
Click to expand...

The L25 criterion is beyond absurd, yes, and for the reasons you either stated directly or alluded-to. But D-3 is full of this utter nonsense.

This thread has been a very fun read (thanks to all for that) but face it fellas, the system is a joke.

The way to eliminate the all howling is to adopt an objective metric applicable to all of D-3 hockey, and we all know this... S#it-can the AQ's, play the tournaments just for fun and to gather more data, and have the results calculable before the committee even shows-up to announce the obvious.

It's very doable.
 
Dyce said:
To be fair, I'm pretty sure elbo's talking about '02, when Bowdoin eked out a berth over the Pointers after both lost in their conference semis. A comparison as close as theirs apparently was that year would understandably sow some resentment, especially since it was DIII's first nine-team tournament, and the NCAA stuck the two Western teams in the play-in (which, once again, is more a confirmation of their tendency to trim travel through matchups than anything else). I've no doubt that the integrity of the field was argued based on that, but it was ultimately a pretty clear case of Bowdoin winning a close comparison.
Click to expand...

Wrong again, somewhat. There were 3 western teams in that year. Superior was at-large and St. Thomas and St. Norbert were automatics. There was no way the west was going to get both at-large berths. Since Superior won the national title that year I'd surmise the committee got it right, even though they had to run a gauntlet to do it.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Whoops, apparently I can't count to nine. Thanks for the correction :)
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
Got to have at larges. Excellent teams shouldn't be punished in a one-game tournament format by a hot goaltender stealing a game from them.

If we went to your scenario, there better be two or three-games series formats instituted.
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I have no objection to a 3 point series or a 2 out of 3 series. But think of the pressure of each conference tournament game knowing that a loss is truly the end of the season.

And then, when we get to the NCAA, we do it all over again. I guarantee that most coaches would be bald or gray by year 4 of their tenure.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Biggest joke of the criteria is RNK.

Hey, let's figure out who to rank. To do that, we need to examine the official criteria. Like record vs. ranked teams. So first, let's figure out who to rank...

That said, it is what it is. I agree, this is a fun read :cool:
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

AC09 said:
Biggest joke of the criteria is RNK.

Hey, let's figure out who to rank. To do that, we need to examine the official criteria. Like record vs. ranked teams. So first, let's figure out who to rank...
Click to expand...

And then, who to un-rank for no accountable reason... Well said.
 
Sir Nubs said:
Wrong again. In 2000 Stevens Point was left out when Concordia-Moorhead won the MIAC Tournament. St. Thomas got the only at-large in the tournament that year. UWSP hadn't been an NCAA contender again after that until last year.

Nice try though.
Click to expand...

And I believe St Thomas was the national runner up that year.
 
Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

PSUChamps2001 said:
For a conference who has how many wins against .575 and higher competition? Keep beating up cream puffs to inflate your win %....
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And, at the same time, deflate your SOS, which is just as significant..? You either don't understand the calculus, or you are being willfully dense. Hard to say from where I sit, but I hope for your sake that it's the latter.

Anyhoo, the puck drops in Oswego in less than 30 minutes. Gonna be a street-fight and I can't wait to watch it. I'd give OSU the edge, maybe by a goal or two (ENG), but nothing much will surprise me. I don't have a dog in the hunt; just expecting a balls-out effort from these rivals, and a great hockey game to watch.
 
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