The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

[Ozz]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

The last 25% for both teams should be 5-2 after this weekend provided SNC takes care of business. Eau Claire actually has a tougher weekend ahead and could fall to 4-3 in their last 25. I hope they don't because I like our Pool C chances better if River Falls drops both of their games this weekend (SP and EC). At any rate, I don't see why head-to-head wouldn't be the deciding factor in this case.

My guess for the Rankings is just for what will be released today, without prognosticating what the coming weekend's results will be, or future Rankings. Currently, the L25 has Eau Claire better than SNC. Obviously the data changes with each passing weekend.

Also, I spoke on this in a previous post. I understand the criteria used. I just don't agree with it. Last 25% has more to do with who falls on your schedule at the end of the year. If you are playing bottom dwellers and the next guy looses a Pool C bid because their schedule pitted them against ranked teams at the end of the year, that hardly seems like a fair bit of criteria. As it is we have Lawrence this weekend and Eau Claire has River Falls. We are supposed to win those games (I know anything can happen). If EC loses to RF, would it be fair that they are penalized for their last 25% because of the schedule? A stupid criteria. Losses against sub .500 teams is much better. If you can't win the games you're supposed to that is telling for any team.

There are really two seperate conversations; A. What we think the rankings will be based upon the criteria used and B. What we think about the criteria. Hate it or love it, the Last 25% is being used, so that must be taken into account. I actually like the Last 25%, but would prefer it be used as Secondary Criteria for the reasons mentioned. If I had it my way, I would have WIN and SOS be Primary Criteria, RNK (Which I would prefer it be formulated somehow as "Wins vs Top 20" and "Losses vs Bottom 20") and COP be Secondary Criteria, and L25 and H2H be Thirdary (???) Criteria. But I digress...


Does anyone know what time the Rankings are released?

 

[altazo]

The last 25% for both teams should be 5-2 after this weekend provided SNC takes care of business. Eau Claire actually has a tougher weekend ahead and could fall to 4-3 in their last 25. I hope they don't because I like our Pool C chances better if River Falls drops both of their games this weekend (SP and EC). At any rate, I don't see why head-to-head wouldn't be the deciding factor in this case.

Also, I spoke on this in a previous post. I understand the criteria used. I just don't agree with it. Last 25% has more to do with who falls on your schedule at the end of the year. If you are playing bottom dwellers and the next guy looses a Pool C bid because their schedule pitted them against ranked teams at the end of the year, that hardly seems like a fair bit of criteria. As it is we have Lawrence this weekend and Eau Claire has River Falls. We are supposed to win those games (I know anything can happen). If EC loses to RF, would it be fair that they are penalized for their last 25% because of the schedule? A stupid criteria. Losses against sub .500 teams is much better. If you can't win the games you're supposed to that is telling for any team.

I understand where you are coming from, and trust me, I want to see SNC in as much as anybody. But, the second half of this season has not been a good one for SNC. They've got some issues, and I suspect they are the same issues Coghlin was alluding to back when the team was 10-0-1 and ranked 1st in both polls.

Understand, all this talk of SNC and a Pool C would be assuming they lose another game, something I'm not sure they can afford to do. EC and RF (along with Hobart) both have an opportunity to win out the rest of the way and still be in the Pool C discussion should Pool B be awarded to Point.

Yeah, the criteria is confusing and frustrating, but it is what it is and it has historically been pretty kind to SNC. Everything is so tight this season and there are so many good teams, I honestly think it's a waste of time examining the scenarios in which SNC could enter the tournament through the back door. If SNC gets knocked out before the NCHA final I gotta think they're done. If they reach the final and lose to Adrian for a third time, I don't believe they deserve to be in. I think it would be best for SNC to treat the NCHA playoffs as if it is the NCAA tournament, lose and you go home (and I suspect that is exactly what they are doing, although I realize you may have some inside info on that front )

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Does anyone know what time the Rankings are released?

As per Derek's post last week, this week's rankings are postponed until tomorrow.

 

[Ozz]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

As per Derek's post last week, this week's rankings are postponed until tomorrow.

*Sigh* Oh right

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

*Sigh* Oh right

I would expect to see the NCAA rankings tomorrow around 2 or 3 EST

 

[GB Puck Fan]

I understand where you are coming from, and trust me, I want to see SNC in as much as anybody. But, the second half of this season has not been a good one for SNC. They've got some issues, and I suspect they are the same issues Coghlin was alluding to back when the team was 10-0-1 and ranked 1st in both polls.

Understand, all this talk of SNC and a Pool C would be assuming they lose another game, something I'm not sure they can afford to do. EC and RF (along with Hobart) both have an opportunity to win out the rest of the way and still be in the Pool C discussion should Pool B be awarded to Point.

Yeah, the criteria is confusing and frustrating, but it is what it is and it has historically been pretty kind to SNC. Everything is so tight this season and there are so many good teams, I honestly think it's a waste of time examining the scenarios in which SNC could enter the tournament through the back door. If SNC gets knocked out before the NCHA final I gotta think they're done. If they reach the final and lose to Adrian for a third time, I don't believe they deserve to be in. I think it would be best for SNC to treat the NCHA playoffs as if it is the NCAA tournament, lose and you go home (and I suspect that is exactly what they are doing, although I realize you may have some inside info on that front )

I think everyone associated with SNC is thinking the team needs the AQ to get in.

 

[westscout]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

The west will get 4 teams....I would be surprised if they get 5! They will get 4 though....

 

[AC09]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

There are really two seperate conversations; A. What we think the rankings will be based upon the criteria used and B. What we think about the criteria. Hate it or love it, the Last 25% is being used, so that must be taken into account. I actually like the Last 25%, but would prefer it be used as Secondary Criteria for the reasons mentioned. If I had it my way, I would have WIN and SOS be Primary Criteria, RNK (Which I would prefer it be formulated somehow as "Wins vs Top 20" and "Losses vs Bottom 20") and COP be Secondary Criteria, and L25 and H2H be Thirdary (???) Criteria. But I digress...

Tertiary Criteria

This is all too...logical.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

If you are referring to Trinity, I think the committee got that one correct last year. If you are referring to the absence of an ECAC W team in the tourney last season, I think the committee got that correct also. Point deserved last season's Pool B, and I believe the Pool C's were Adrian, Norwich, and either Oswego or Geneseo. They got it right.

Trinity was the only Eastern team in the top-10 KRACH at the end of the RS IIRC. And Trinity was "ranked" #1 in the East by the NCAA before losing their final game, at which point they disappeared from the face of the Earth.

There is really no way to digest the above and still have any respect whatsoever for the process. That was my point.

 

[altazo]

Trinity was the only Eastern team in the top-10 KRACH at the end of the RS IIRC. And Trinity was "ranked" #1 in the East by the NCAA before losing their final game, at which point they disappeared from the face of the Earth.

There is really no way to digest the above and still have any respect whatsoever for the process. That was my point]


I take it you missed Trinity's loss to Bowdoin in the NESCAC playoffs? That was the only Trinity game I watched last year (and perhaps the committee was watching too.) They did not look like a NCAA tourney team on that day...

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

It's about the season as a whole, grasshopper... Any team can look awful on a given day.

 

[joecct]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Trinity was the only Eastern team in the top-10 KRACH at the end of the RS IIRC. And Trinity was "ranked" #1 in the East by the NCAA before losing their final game, at which point they disappeared from the face of the Earth.

There is really no way to digest the above and still have any respect whatsoever for the process. That was my point]


I take it you missed Trinity's loss to Bowdoin in the NESCAC playoffs? That was the only Trinity game I watched last year (and perhaps the committee was watching too.) They did not look like a NCAA tourney team on that day...

Trinity lost to (unranked) Amherst in the NESCAC semis. Bowdoin beat Amherst in a marathon.

 

[Laker28]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Trinity lost to Bowdoin 5-4 I think. Bowdoin took Oswego to the wire in the NCAA's so they were playing well at the end of the year. Either way I am thinking maybe the committee felt that if Trinity couldn't win a pretty weak NESCAC tourney at home then they didn't deserve to be in over Geneseo and Adrian that had similar records against much tougher competition.

 

[spwood]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I take it you missed Trinity's loss to Bowdoin in the NESCAC playoffs? That was the only Trinity game I watched last year (and perhaps the committee was watching too.) They did not look like a NCAA tourney team on that day...

His point, I think (and definitely mine) is that it's hard to respect a process that ranks a team #1 on one week, they lose one game (whether they looked bad or not, no Pool C team wants to be judged by their worst game of the season) and they plummet out of the tournament. If they weren't a "tourney team", they shouldn't have been ranked as one. I totally agree with him on this one.

 

[altazo]

It's about the season as a whole, grasshopper... Any team can look awful on a given day.

Thanks, Sensei.

Regardless of the earlier ranking, I still think the committee got it right last season with the Pool C's being Adrian, Norwich, and Geneseo.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

His point, I think (and definitely mine) is that it's hard to respect a process that ranks a team #1 on one week, they lose one game (whether they looked bad or not, no Pool C team wants to be judged by their worst game of the season) and they plummet out of the tournament. If they weren't a "tourney team", they shouldn't have been ranked as one. I totally agree with him on this one.

Maybe it was "so close" that all it took was one bad loss to plummet them. Let's be honest, I think everyone can agree that Division III hockey has grown to the point where in any given year you could say 20 teams should be playing in the NCAA Tournament. However, only 11 get in with two of them practically having no shot of ever getting far in the tournament.

That means 11 teams that are very good hockey teams are being left home every year.

 

[spwood]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Maybe it was "so close" that all it took was one bad loss to plummet them. Let's be honest, I think everyone can agree that Division III hockey has grown to the point where in any given year you could say 20 teams should be playing in the NCAA Tournament. However, only 11 get in with two of them practically having no shot of ever getting far in the tournament.

That means 11 teams that are very good hockey teams are being left home every year.

You're missing my point. I don't disagree that they didn't deserve to be in the tournament. I would have put Plattsburgh in ahead of them last year (I won't rehash whether Plattsburgh should have been in ahead of Norwich...). My point is that they should never have been ranked as high as they were in the first place, but once they were, they needed to be treated as the #1 team in the east. Without the weekly regional rankings, no one would have said anything about Trinity being left out. The point with their tumble is that all the teams they were being compared to lost as well and their loss wasn't that much worse.

 

[joecct]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

The smoke is clearing and the Ridder Ralph is about to come out of the warming hut and if he sees the rankings, we'll have 6 more weeks of hockey....

AND HERE THEY ARE

NK/REGION	SCHOOL	IN REGION RECORD	OVERALL RECORD	
East				
1	Trinity (Connecticut)	19-2-1	19-2-1	
2	Oswego State	17-1-3	17-2-3	
3	Hobart	18-6-0	18-6-0	
4	Amherst	15-4-2	16-4-2	
5	Norwich	17-3-1	21-3-1	
6	Massachusetts Boston	17-3-1	21-3-1	
7	Plattsburgh State	17-5-1	17-5-1	
8	Nichols	13-3-3	16-3-3	
West				
1	Adrian	19-3-3	19-3-3	
2	Wisconsin-Stevens Point	18-5-0	18-5-0	
3	St. Norbert	17-5-2	17-5-2	
4	Wisconsin-Eau Claire	15-6-2	15-6-2	
5	St. Thomas (Minnesota)	14-5-4	14-5-4	
6	Wisconsin-River Falls	18-4-1	18-4-1

Based on the rankings, Stevens Point gets Pool B (W2 > E3). Pool C is going to be a dogfight!

 

[Ozz]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Hobart!

 

[spwood]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

WOW!!! Norwich #5? Hobart #3? Trinity #1? Nichols ranked at all? The eastern ranking have me scratching my head a little bit. Here you go again, Bantams. #1 and you'd still better win the NESCAC tourney!