The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

[Laker28]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Considering the fact Oswego rolls over the Eastern teams in the NCAA's only to end their season against a Western opponent in the final four I agree with you SNC11. No way any of the 5 are markedly better than Point, Adrian and Eau-Claire, probably even St. Norbert. I am not sold on Falls because of their recent history of failure at the end of the season.

 

[llama]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I just don't understand how the computer ranks Hobart 4th with six losses ! I mean I know the reason....but it still doesn't add up.

I'll put on my "Captain Obvious" cape here...

You "know the reason" because you understand computer rankings are based on pre-defined metrics and there is no gray area for subjectivity to influence the analysis. You think "it doesn't add up" because of your personal bias and/or the facts you look at to guide you. The reality is neither way to rank teams (the black/white computer analysis vs human opinion) is completely reliable...I'm guessing this is why they chose to have a set of pre-defined metrics used to guide a group of "experts" who then infuse a touch of human bias to create the "smoky room". I'm not saying the current system is perfect - I hate that they don't release final rankings or publicize the weighting for each criteria.

BTW- I agree Joe's "compooter" has Hobart ranked higher than they should be at this point.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

i just don't understand how the computer ranks hobart 4th with six losses ! I mean i know the reason....but it still doesn't add up.

Schedule strength married with W%. One means little without the other.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I agree,not that I am big on ranking/polls,but would like to see more of the "top" teams meet during the regular season,but we all know $$$$$$$ talks.

Is there any money involved in D-3 hockey? I haven't seen any evidence of that.

I would be more inclined to blame D-3's selection/ranking inequities on cronyism. I can't divine any other reason for them. It's not as though anybody has any significant bucks to gain from the sport.

 

[joecct]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Is there any money involved in D-3 hockey? I haven't seen any evidence of that.

I would be more inclined to blame D-3's inequities on cronyism. I can't divine any other reason for it.

Whether you like it or not, most schools rank their athletic programs. The ones at the top get the most $$ support -- the others, not so much.

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Whether you like it or not, most schools rank their athletic programs. The ones at the top get the most $$ support -- the others, not so much.

Well, of course, almost all schools pick and choose what sports they're going to emphasize... But I'm pretty sure that bakdraft wasn't talking about that sort of thing at all.

 

[Hockeyfan2113]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

The only money that is involved here is each teams particular budget, teams have to work within a budget and why spend x amount of dollars on bus, hotel, food, etc to go west or east when for y its significantly less to stay in your region?

Theres some other factors in there but money-related thats the only one really.

 

[Cards81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Amherst and Plattsburgh hold advantages (significant in a couple criteria) over Eau Claire (in the other poll) and St. Norbert. Yet both western teams are ranked higher. Hmmmm !

 

[Ozz]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

Amherst and Plattsburgh hold advantages (significant in a couple criteria) over Eau Claire (in the other poll) and St. Norbert. Yet both western teams are ranked higher. Hmmmm !

...because the polls have no criteria...

 

[Cards81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I think most would agree the difference between Oswego and Plattsburgh is very minimal. In fact, if the Cards were to win Friday night I would say they have had a better season than the Lakers.

 

[OSU2010]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

My guess in the East

1)Trinity
2)Oswego
3)Norwich
4)Mass-Boston
5)Amherst
6)Plattsburgh
7)Hobart
8)Williams

 

[spwood]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

My guess in the East

1)Trinity
2)Oswego
3)Norwich
4)Mass-Boston
5)Amherst
6)Plattsburgh
7)Hobart
8)Williams

****, I wanted to argue that Plattsburgh is ranked too low, but I'm not sure I can. Boston and Amherst both have wins over Trinity. Plattsburgh's only good win (thus far) is the win over Norwich. But they also have losses to Norwich, Oswego and Williams. They really need to beat Oswego this weekend. (Captain Obvious alert: ) Better would be a win over Oswego (or anyone else for that matter) March 7th.

 

[OSU2010]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I think most would agree the difference between Oswego and Plattsburgh is very minimal. In fact, if the Cards were to win Friday night I would say they have had a better season than the Lakers.

Plattsburgh Vs. Oswego
Win%: Platty 0.7609, Oz 0.8810. Winner Oz
SOS Platty 14th, Oz 15th. Winner Platty(close)
COP: Platty 13-1-0, Oz 12-1-1. Winner Platty
H2H: Oz 1-0. Winner Oz.
Last 25%: Oz 6-0, Platty 5-1. Winner Oz

RNK: Oz 2-0(Hobart and Plattsburgh), Platty 1-2-1 (Win over Norwich, Losses to Norwich and Oswego, Tie to Amherst, one more loss if Williams gets ranked.) Winner Oz

Right now Oz would win the criteria 4-2. If Plattsburgh wins on Friday, the Criteria will change to 2-2-2. The Committee can weigh the criteria however they like so its hard to say who would be on top, I'd still give it to Oz on their commanding lead in win% and their record vs. Ranked opponents(of course this is assumed ranked opponents). Their COP and SOS are both so close that i think they'd weigh the other criteria higher. H2H and last 25% would be tied.

 

[OSU2010]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

****, I wanted to argue that Plattsburgh is ranked too low, but I'm not sure I can. Boston and Amherst both have wins over Trinity. Plattsburgh's only good win (thus far) is the win over Norwich. But they also have losses to Norwich, Oswego and Williams. They really need to beat Oswego this weekend. (Captain Obvious alert: ) Better would be a win over Oswego (or anyone else for that matter) March 7th.

I really wanted to put Plattsburgh higher but RNK kills them, It's hard to say who #8 will be in the east. I put Williams because they have better RNK and much better SOS than Babson. Their win% is very close to Babson who wins with a slight edge there 0.6905 to 0.6818. Plattsburgh, Norwich, and Babson fans better hope for an Amherst win over Williams on Saturday or it will hurt all of their teams when Williams gets ranked and Babson doesn't.

 

[OSU2010]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

How is SOS determined?

2/3 Opponent win% 1/3 opponent opponent win %(I went off the KRACH, i assume this is how they do it as well)

 

[joecct]

2/3 Opponent win% 1/3 opponent opponent win %(I went off the KRACH, i assume this is how they do it as well)

And it's the AVERAGE of your opponents' %'s. You also need to throw out the games between the two teams when computing the %'s.

 

[Cards81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

That's great info about power play and wins and losses by 3 goals and all that.....but it means absolutely nothing. What DOES mean something is
WIN PCT. : Plattsburgh
SOS: Plattsburgh
LAST25%: Plattsburgh

Are those computer advantages you are referring to? As many have pointed out, the D3 and USCHO rankings have nothing to do with post season bids. But I will say that statistically speaking Plattsburgh and Amherst don't measure up to St. Norbert:

Power Play:
St. Norbert (5)
Amherst (12)
Plattsburgh (34)

Penalty Kill:
St. Norbert (7)
Amherst (25)
Plattsburgh (32)

Team Offense:
St. Norbert (4)
Plattsburgh (8)
Amherst (20)

Team Defense:
St. Norbert (4)
Plattsburgh (5)
Amherst (12)

Wins by 3 or more goals:
St. Norbert (11)
Plattsburth (11)
Amherst (4)

Losses by 3 or more goals:
St. Norbert (0)
Amherst (1)
Plattsburgh (2)

 

[Cards81]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I think Plattsburgh has a reasonably good Pool C shot should they defeat Oswego Friday night, giving them two W's over reigning #1's in the nation. Could have two shots vs. the Lakers should they both get to SUNYAC finals. Cards aren't going to beat many in the Record vs. Ranked anyway.
Either way, Friday is HUGE for Cardinals. Not so much for Lakers as they are most likely already in. So, win Friday and at least make it to SUNYAC final...OR win SUNYAC final win.
Same as last year, that didn't work out too well.

I really wanted to put Plattsburgh higher but RNK kills them, It's hard to say who #8 will be in the east. I put Williams because they have better RNK and much better SOS than Babson. Their win% is very close to Babson who wins with a slight edge there 0.6905 to 0.6818. Plattsburgh, Norwich, and Babson fans better hope for an Amherst win over Williams on Saturday or it will hurt all of their teams when Williams gets ranked and Babson doesn't.

 

[Ozz]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I think Plattsburgh has a reasonably good Pool C shot should they defeat Oswego Friday night, giving them two W's over reigning #1's in the nation. Could have two shots vs. the Lakers should they both get to SUNYAC finals. Cards aren't going to beat many in the Record vs. Ranked anyway.
Either way, Friday is HUGE for Cardinals. Not so much for Lakers as they are most likely already in. So, win Friday and at least make it to SUNYAC final...OR win SUNYAC final win.
Same as last year, that didn't work out too well.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. A loss to Platty Friday and a loss to Platty in a potential SUNYAC final hurts them in WIN and RNK. While I like our chances, I'm not counting our chickens before they hatch. I will say that with two wins this weekend, I would feel very confident in Oswego's chances regardless of what happens in the SUNYAC Tournament.


I'm convinces that if Hobart runs the table the rest of the season, they are a Pool C team. Remember, outside of the WIAC and ECAC-W, anyone else in Pool C consideration has atleast one more loss than what is on their current resume.

 

[OSU2010]

Re: The polls - scratching KRACH, PWC, CoP and robbery! ...---...

I wouldn't be so sure about that. A loss to Platty Friday and a loss to Platty in a potential SUNYAC final hurts them in WIN and RNK. While I like our chances, I'm not counting our chickens before they hatch. I will say that with two wins this weekend, I would feel very confident in Oswego's chances regardless of what happens in the SUNYAC Tournament.


I'm convinces that if Hobart runs the table the rest of the season, they are a Pool C team. Remember, outside of the WIAC and ECAC-W, anyone else in Pool C consideration has atleast one more loss than what is on their current resume.

I think oz is pretty much in even if they lose two games to platty, their RNK would be 2-2-0, and their win% (assuming they beat Pottsdam and whomever in the SUNYAC-Semi-Finals) would still be 0.82 good for 5th best in the East(or tied for top in the west). They would also get a huge boost to SOS by playing platty twice.