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The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

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Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Point taken. However, I would say that wasn't an engineer so much as it was a designer. Big difference between the two.
Yeah, we all picked up something and wondered what they were thinking when they made it.

As long as you didn't design the Wakota Bridge in South St. Paul. :D
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Yeah, we all picked up something and wondered what they were thinking when they made it.

As long as you didn't design the Wakota Bridge in South St. Paul. :D

Haha, nope. I'm a chemical and process engineer. I don't touch structural stuff. (although those structural beams were terribly out of place today :( )
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Haha, nope. I'm a chemical and process engineer. I don't touch structural stuff. (although those structural beams were terribly out of place today :( )

Otherwise I was thinking you drove a train. :D
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Otherwise I was thinking you drove a train. :D

Haha, I wish. What a job.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

How the hell do you manage to nearly ruin Oh Canada?

This. I'm watching my recording of the Opening Ceremonies and was dismayed to see this chick American Idol-ize Oh Canada. Painful.

And Dirty - I was thinking the exact same thing when watching Tom Brokaw's piece on Canada and the Canadian people. I said "And they also boo the National Anthem" to the TV. Heh.

Has there been any word on what happened to that fourth pillar of the cauldron that didn't work?
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Doubling down on stupid

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news?slug=ap-lug-lugerdies&prov=ap&type=lgns

you know, we know its the driver's error... but christ, the point is to design to reasonably minimize issues resulting from those errors.

I wouldn't want to be the next one down...The video is awful and I don't need to see it ever again.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Maybe I was too reactionary to the video. I don't know. My reaction basically went like this:

1. Oh, my God.
2. What the hell are those steel posts doing there?

exact same response.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Doubling down on stupid

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news?slug=ap-lug-lugerdies&prov=ap&type=lgns

you know, we know its the driver's error... but christ, the point is to design to reasonably minimize issues resulting from those errors.

Un-freakin-believable. Way to throw the guy who died on the track under the bus IOC, way to go. :mad:
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

http://sports.espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2010/luge/news/story?id=4911258

I love it how they said the course wasnt at fault BUT they are changing the start so its further down the hill (so the speed won't be as fast), making the turn higher, and adding a wooden wall where the pillars are.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

http://sports.espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2010/luge/news/story?id=4911258

I love it how they said the course wasnt at fault BUT they are changing the start so its further down the hill (so the speed won't be as fast), making the turn higher, and adding a wooden wall where the pillars are.

I was just going to post that. The track looks a hell of a lot better now...
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I assume most of us only pay attention to the sliding sports during the Olympics. However, over the years I've seen quite a bit of luge (really got tired of Georg Hackl winning the gold every freakin' time) and I've never seen an accident like that. Usually, the rider and the sled part company and both slide down the track 'till the rider is able to stop. The biggest concern is always whether the sled's gonna hit the rider. Bumps, bruises, the occasional tendon or ligament damage, but not this. I've never seen an accident where the slider is thrown up and off the track like that. And neither, apparantly, have any of the other sliders.

Speaking of Hackl, he says the course is safe. And I think it's not quite honest to make references that the sliders "were concerned about safety." They were concerned about accidents, to be sure, but not what we saw yesterday.

You guys evidently believe that the changes made to the course are an acknowledgment that there were flaws in the design. I respectfully disagree. I believe these changes (including moving the start line) came significantly in response to the pressure "to do something" in the wake of this horrible accident--a "one in a million" accident. And I believe the young man was overmatched by this track, and probably other tracks as well. Obviously I'm not blaming the victim, but we should not ignore his evident lack of experience as contributing significantly to this tragedy.

And a reminder, whatever changes were made to the track were the responibility of the sports federations working with the Vancouver officials. The IOC probably showed an "interest" in whatever they decided to do, but the IOC does not run these competitions--the sports federations do.
 
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Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Why did they pick a town that averages 44 degrees and rain every day in February to host the Winter Olympics?
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Why did they pick a town that averages 44 degrees and rain every day in February to host the Winter Olympics?

THAT's a very good question.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I assume most of us only pay attention to the sliding sports during the Olympics. However, over the years I've seen quite a bit of luge (really got tired of Georg Hackl winning the gold every freakin' time) and I've never seen an accident like that. Usually, the rider and the sled part company and both slide down the track 'till the rider is able to stop. The biggest concern is always whether the sled's gonna hit the rider. Bumps, bruises, the occasional tendon or ligament damage, but not this. I've never seen an accident where the slider is thrown up and off the track like that. And neither, apparantly, have any of the other sliders.

Speaking of Hackl, he says the course is safe. And I think it's not quite honest to make references that the sliders "were concerned about safety." They were concerned about accidents, to be sure, but not what we saw yesterday.

You guys evidently believe that the changes made to the course are an acknowledgment that there were flaws in the design. I respectfully disagree. I believe these changes (including moving the start line) came significantly in response to the pressure "to do something" in the wake of this horrible accident--a "one in a million" accident. And I believe the young man was overmatched by this track, and probably other tracks as well. Obviously I'm not blaming the victim, but we should not ignore his evident lack of experience as contributing significantly to this tragedy.

And a reminder, whatever changes were made to the track were the responibility of the sports federations working with the Vancouver officials. The IOC probably showed an "interest" in whatever they decided to do, but the IOC does not run these competitions--the sports federations do.

I guess I don't buy the lack of experience part but that's fine, it probably did play a larger role than I'm giving it. Which makes the engineering argument that much stronger if you ask me. When I'm at work, I have to design a process around what could possibly happen if situation XYZ arose, even if it's not likely to happen. Obviously they can't design around every possible situation but this seems like quite the oversight with the beams there.

The more dangerous the process, the more scrutiny I must give to the process as a whole.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I assume most of us only pay attention to the sliding sports during the Olympics. However, over the years I've seen quite a bit of luge (really got tired of Georg Hackl winning the gold every freakin' time) and I've never seen an accident like that. Usually, the rider and the sled part company and both slide down the track 'till the rider is able to stop. The biggest concern is always whether the sled's gonna hit the rider. Bumps, bruises, the occasional tendon or ligament damage, but not this. I've never seen an accident where the slider is thrown up and off the track like that. And neither, apparantly, have any of the other sliders.

Speaking of Hackl, he says the course is safe. And I think it's not quite honest to make references that the sliders "were concerned about safety." They were concerned about accidents, to be sure, but not what we saw yesterday.

You guys evidently believe that the changes made to the course are an acknowledgment that there were flaws in the design. I respectfully disagree. I believe these changes (including moving the start line) came significantly in response to the pressure "to do something" in the wake of this horrible accident--a "one in a million" accident. And I believe the young man was overmatched by this track, and probably other tracks as well. Obviously I'm not blaming the victim, but we should not ignore his evident lack of experience as contributing significantly to this tragedy.

And a reminder, whatever changes were made to the track were the responibility of the sports federations working with the Vancouver officials. The IOC probably showed an "interest" in whatever they decided to do, but the IOC does not run these competitions--the sports federations do.

I certainly see your point and it does sound like he was a little inexperienced. Couple that with speeds reaching 95 mph when the usual luge speeds are in the mid 80's...you have a disaster waiting to happen.

But, how is a luger supposed to get experience on a track like Whistler when Canada would only allow their own athletes to compete on the track?
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I guess I don't buy the lack of experience part but that's fine, it probably did play a larger role than I'm giving it. Which makes the engineering argument that much stronger if you ask me. When I'm at work, I have to design a process around what could possibly happen if situation XYZ arose, even if it's not likely to happen. Obviously they can't design around every possible situation but this seems like quite the oversight with the beams there.

The more dangerous the process, the more scrutiny I must give to the process as a whole.

We're all just so shocked and saddened that this boy lost his life, it seems venal to suggest that he played a role in this tragedy. I understand that, and agree completely.

I would imagine the sliding federations will review every major track in the world, to see if it's even possible this kind of catastrophic accident can occur, and where safety measures can be applied to guard against it.

Sadly, as always, these retro-active changes will come too late for the person who showed the necessity of making them.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I certainly see your point and it does sound like he was a little inexperienced. Couple that with speeds reaching 95 mph when the usual luge speeds are in the mid 80's...you have a disaster waiting to happen.

But, how is a luger supposed to get experience on a track like Whistler when Canada would only allow their own athletes to compete on the track?

Another good point. The home team always has an advantage, and access to the venues is right up there. However, it should be a simple matter in the runup to the games, to require equal access to the competitors at some point. And I'm wondering if there's a track in Georgia. We've got at least two, Salt Lake City and Lake Placid.
 
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Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

We're all just so shocked and saddened that this boy lost his life, it seems venal to suggest that he played a role in this tragedy. I understand that, and agree completely.

I would imagine the sliding federations will review every major track in the world, to see if it's even possible this kind of catastrophic accident can occur, and where safety measures can be applied to guard against it.

Sadly, as always, these retro-active changes will come too late for the person who showed the necessity of making them.

I suppose again, as an engineer I'm all too familiar with retroactive changes (basically everything in the NFPA, OSHA 119, and other codes are retroactive). Especially with regards to explosions anf loss of life event.
 
Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

Re: The Official Thread of the Run-Up to the XXI Olympic Winter Games, Vancouver, Canada

I suppose again, as an engineer I'm all too familiar with retroactive changes (basically everything in the NFPA, OSHA 119, and other codes are retroactive). Especially with regards to explosions anf loss of life event.

Naturally I defer to your expertise. But what persuades me that whatever flaws exist on this track weren't obvious is that the track is two years old and has hosted a world championship. Now, if there were obvious, potentially fatal flaws, you would have expected someone to have noticed during hundreds or perhaps thousands of training and competitive runs. And if it turns out somebody did, well then that's a horse of a different color.

Honestly, this situation reminds me of putting in the stop sign after the school kid is run over. It's just so sad.
 
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