The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Trust me, I enjoy the "Obummer" and "His Panderness" cracks too. You won't find me voting for his pathetic arse in November. Kepler's brand of smug, arrogant trolling is just as entertaining as your equally overused "drunk uncle at a family reunion" schtick.

It's all method acting, since I don't drink. Dana Carvey's Ross Perot just popped into my head.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

No answer from FF on this point, I see. Oh well.

Protesters in Cairo tried to breach the Saudi embassy back in April. The Saudis! According to the FF theory, no one would mess with the Saudis, 'cause they freaking cut your head off if they catch you -- and right downtown for the world to see. FF, your theory (or, more accurately, your passive assigning of a theory to "others") is a crap theory.

Perhaps FF may have been talking about the days of mass hostage taking in Beirut. An Israeli newspaper reported that four ranking Soviet "diplomats" had been kidnapped. One was murdered, the others released with no explanation. Evidently, the KGB took the head kidnapper's uncle captive, turned him into a capon, then had the extraneous bits delivered to his nephew. That was the only kidnapping of Soviet "diplomats"during that period.

Bob Woodward reported on that incident, too:

"But Russian victimization came to an abrupt end. In his book "Veil," Bob Woodward explained why.

Hezbollah had kidnapped four Soviet diplomats from Beirut during the fall of 1985. One they murdered straightaway. The others they held in captivity.

In response, the KGB seized the relative of a Hezbollah leader. As part of Moscow's anti-terrorism policy, the KGB "castrated him, stuffed his testicles in his mouth, shot him in the head and sent the body back to Hezbollah. The KGB included a message that other members of the Party of God would die in a similar manner if the three Soviets were not released."
(Jonathon Gurwitz, World Jewish Review)

And though there have been some kidnappings by Chechen "rebels" since, IIRC the Russians usually kill them.

I think the SEALS performed magnificently when they clipped two Somali pirates, with head shots, from bobbing small boats. That's really amazing shooting. And the message, of course, is: there's more where that came from.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Meanwhile, Jimmy Janos, one of the world's premier attention whores, claims the CIA may be responsible for the violence in the Middle East. One thing to remember, however, this lying sack of sh*t was NOT a SEAL. But a SEAL did knock him on his a*s for mouthing off about the SEALS. Jimmy obviously needs another lesson.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/15/jesse-ventura-suggests-us-may-be-behind-middle-east-violence/

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Our extremists don't blow up buildings because 500 years of secularism has toned down the fanaticism of religion in the West. Islamic extremists are the reductio ad absurdum of what our Santorums would wish upon us: a return to the "good old days."

Christianity already had its 16th century. We learned that tolerance and separation of church and state are requirements for a free society. That's what keeps our nutbars from strapping on the suicide vests and waddling into Bryant–Denny Stadium.

Anything that erodes that and begins a backslide towards literal religious fundamentalism is a danger to civilization.

Religion's great as long as you remember it's a metaphor. When you start heading into butterfly net territory, you're on the road to the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre.

Close but not quite.

This doesn't have to do with religion. This has to do with historic tribalism (of which this strain of Islam is also an outcome).

Long story short it is about angry regressive extremist conservatism. (uh oh, I stepped in it now.) Forget your longstanding labels...this is not about Buckly's definition of pride in private ownership 'conservatives' or FF's suprisingly liberal 'conservatives' or even 'fiscal conservatives'.

Its about the extremist core of conservatism - 'retaining traditional social institutions and opposing modernism and seeking a return to "the way things were"'. This is as said about inherent tribalism. I am and have always been of the opinion that we put these losers on an island with our Ted Nugent losers...give them all a spork and let them fight it out. The rest of us...secularists, Christians and Muslims...would have a great time.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

It seems our response so far is totally missing the point big time.

We keep saying that people are upset about the movie. That is totally wrong: the Arab protesters are NOT upset about the movie, they are upset because we did not prosecute the people who made the movie. Huge difference.

They know the world is full of jerks; they probably have a few jerks over there as well. They don't blame us because we have jerks here too; they blame us because we don't rein them in the way they do.



On a related matter, maybe some of you Obamaphiles can help me out here? I was trying to say some supportive things about him, and I'm not very good at it, and I didn't know how to respond to something in a conversation.

I was saying that this is a huge opportunity for Obaba to completely put the election away: part of his shtick is that he wants the US to be friends with the Arab people; he merely needs to say that he understands that the Arab street is being manipulated by dangerous militant extremists, and as he's proved by taking out OBL, he knows how to deal with people like that! My friend said that Obama claimed that with OBL's death, the war on terror was over and we won, and so he can't now say that terrorists are behind the riots. I was dumbfounded, first, because I never heard any statements like that attributed to him; second, because I don't think he's that vain: he wouldn't acknowledge an obvious truth because by doing so he would contradict something he said earlier, would he? It also would be a great way for him to pivot: I learned to make adjustments to respond to threats against the US overseas; that proves I also can make the adjustments needed to respond to threats to the US economy as well.

My friend insists that Obama is too stubborn ever to admit he was wrong; I disagreed; I said that as President with his country in danger, he'd do what he thought was right to protect the US before he protected his own vanity.

So help me out here guys...

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

No answer from FF on this point, I see. Oh well.

Protesters in Cairo tried to breach the Saudi embassy back in April. The Saudis! According to the FF theory, no one would mess with the Saudis, 'cause they freaking cut your head off if they catch you -- and right downtown for the world to see. FF, your theory (or, more accurately, your passive assigning of a theory to "others") is a crap theory.

So let me add one word: no one successfully takes hostages from these guys a second time. That addendum should fix it.

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

So let me add one word: no one successfully takes hostages from these guys a second time. That addendum should fix it.

It fixes it, all right: It changes it from what you originally claimed to the exact opposite.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

So I saw an article saying that the Obama admin has asked Google to review whether the "Innocence of Muslims" trailer posted on YouTube violates the sites Terms of Service, with the obvious hope that it did so that YouTube would pull it. Setting aside the inappropriateness of that request for a moment, I was curious whether YouTube had done anything about it, so I searched for it, and watched it.

Or, more correctly, watched as much of it as I could stomach. Holy cow, what a steaming pile of crap. I'm not even Muslim and it definitely made me want to kill people - namely the producer, director, actors, camera operators, title effects supervisors, caterers, drivers, janitors, and anyone else in any way involved in the production of the film. I've seen elementary school plays with higher production values, more compelling dialog, and better acting. Out of kindness to you, dear reader, I am not going to embed the clip to spare you the temptation of actually clicking on it. Just. Don't.

That said, they have an unalienable right to produce as many steaming piles of crap as they like, and anyone who uses that film as an excuse for acting out his underlying rage and violating others' rights deserves 100% of the blame for his own actions.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

If they had started protesting over "America making bad movies", I might have joined in with a sign saying "Down with Battleship" or something.

 

[DaveStPaul]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Perhaps FF may have been talking about the days of mass hostage taking in Beirut. An Israeli newspaper reported that four ranking Soviet "diplomats" had been kidnapped. One was murdered, the others released with no explanation. Evidently, the KGB took the head kidnapper's uncle captive, turned him into a capon, then had the extraneous bits delivered to his nephew. That was the only kidnapping of Soviet "diplomats"during that period.

Bob Woodward reported on that incident, too:

"But Russian victimization came to an abrupt end. In his book "Veil," Bob Woodward explained why.

Hezbollah had kidnapped four Soviet diplomats from Beirut during the fall of 1985. One they murdered straightaway. The others they held in captivity.

In response, the KGB seized the relative of a Hezbollah leader. As part of Moscow's anti-terrorism policy, the KGB "castrated him, stuffed his testicles in his mouth, shot him in the head and sent the body back to Hezbollah. The KGB included a message that other members of the Party of God would die in a similar manner if the three Soviets were not released."
(Jonathon Gurwitz, World Jewish Review)

And though there have been some kidnappings by Chechen "rebels" since, IIRC the Russians usually kill them.

Sure, and well done, Russia! I've got one for you, too: Syria in '82, literally bulldozing an entire town and its 20,000+ inhabitants straight into the ground. Which successfully squelched the troubles they'd been having, then and since.

Rebuttal #1 -- This is who you're saying we should be more like? China, Russia, and Syria?!?

Rebuttal #2 -- When was the last time Norway's embassy was attacked? Or Sweden's? They're as wimpy as it comes, on the international, non-military, we-should-have-a-conference scale. Using your China/Russia/Syria logic, those Scandinavian embassies should be rubble by now. Because no one fears them!

Come on, it's a crap theory. You (me, whoever) can vent with pronouncements like that when something enraging happens, looking for answers; but that theory doesn't hold up to 30 seconds of thinking.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Using the same logic found in certain parts of the Islamic world and the West, Hitler invaded France because of "The Great Dictator".

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Sure, and well done, Russia! I've got one for you, too: Syria in '82, literally bulldozing an entire town and its 20,000+ inhabitants straight into the ground. Which successfully squelched the troubles they'd been having, then and since.

Rebuttal #1 -- This is who you're saying we should be more like? China, Russia, and Syria?!?

Rebuttal #2 -- When was the last time Norway's embassy was attacked? Or Sweden's? They're as wimpy as it comes, on the international, non-military, we-should-have-a-conference scale. Using your China/Russia/Syria logic, those Scandinavian embassies should be rubble by now. Because no one fears them!

Come on, it's a crap theory. You (me, whoever) can vent with pronouncements like that when something enraging happens, looking for answers; but that theory doesn't hold up to 30 seconds of thinking.

You really ought to pay occasional attention to what I'm saying. It's not my theory. And I'm not advocating that we be more like "China, Russia or Syria." Just pointing out a discreet example where an application of tough measures ended a hostage taking and evidently convinced the hostage takers to look elsewhere for victims.

Speaking of "not holding up for 30 seconds of thinking,"your analysis is terribly flawed. The reason why Islamists haven't invaded the embassies of the countries you mentioned is because nobody on the world stage gives a sh*t about them. In this context, any comparison between the United States and Sweden or Norway is the kind of thing you'd hear in a freshman survey course for slow students. And gives ignorance a bad name.

As long as you're going to offer non sequitor examples of why the United States is an "evil empire" if it takes steps to avoid taking take nine inches of sandpaper dik everytime a mob of Islamist takes it into their heads to punish us, why not mention Lidice?

We have clipped numerous Islamists using drones and shot the biggest Islamist of all in the face. Are we "more like China, Russia and Syria" as a result?

 

[walrus]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Maybe he thinks he's the world's greatest, smartest, most intellectual troll, having a good laugh at the expense of less well developed morons like me. On the other hand, he could just be a libstain a*shole.

Why can't he be both?

 

[Rover]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

This whole conversation brings home what a timewarp older conservatives still live in. Longing for the days of the Cold War, they now want to start a war with somebody, anybody in the middle east even if the govt of those countries has nothing to do with the terrorist acts (and I will label the embassy attacks terrorism whether they turn out to be organized or not). They'd even go so far as to outsource foreign policy to a tired old Israeli leader who really should talk less and solve more problems on his own. I mean, I never recall Ariel Sharon asking the US to do his dirty work for him.

One could point out all the terrorst attacks during the Carter (Iranian hostages), Reagan (Beirut bombing, kidnapping, CIA chief murder, Berlin bombing, Lockerbie), Clinton (USS Cole, African embassies), or BushII (9/11) Presidencies and a theme emerges. Terrorists are constantly trying to hit us with all they've got, and they occiasionally and unfortunately will break through. Watching a chickenhawk pampered rich boy claim that this wouldn't have happened if he was President is the height of stupidity, and then watching his pathetic followers attempt to justify it is even more laughable. Think about it: if a "robust" response to terrorism solves all problems, why did Lockerbie happen AFTER Reagan ordered Tripoli bombed in 1985?

Its a dangerous world people. Obama has put AQ in its place on a scale not seen in decades. Mittens reaction to this current incident shows just how out of touch he and his movement really is. Neo-conservatism, better known as neo-conartistism, is dead. It died in Iraq and it ain't coming back. The sooner you knuckledraggers learn that the sooner you'll be competitive in national elections again.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

So I saw an article saying that the Obama admin has asked Google to review whether the "Innocence of Muslims" trailer posted on YouTube violates the sites Terms of Service, with the obvious hope that it did so that YouTube would pull it. Setting aside the inappropriateness of that request for a moment, I was curious whether YouTube had done anything about it, so I searched for it, and watched it.

Or, more correctly, watched as much of it as I could stomach. Holy cow, what a steaming pile of crap. I'm not even Muslim and it definitely made me want to kill people - namely the producer, director, actors, camera operators, title effects supervisors, caterers, drivers, janitors, and anyone else in any way involved in the production of the film. I've seen elementary school plays with higher production values, more compelling dialog, and better acting. Out of kindness to you, dear reader, I am not going to embed the clip to spare you the temptation of actually clicking on it. Just. Don't.

That said, they have an unalienable right to produce as many steaming piles of crap as they like, and anyone who uses that film as an excuse for acting out his underlying rage and violating others' rights deserves 100% of the blame for his own actions.

Well said! And i give you credit-i did not make it that far into watching that piece of turd.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

This whole conversation brings home what a timewarp older conservatives still live in. Longing for the days of the Cold War, they now want to start a war with somebody, anybody in the middle east even if the govt of those countries has nothing to do with the terrorist acts (and I will label the embassy attacks terrorism whether they turn out to be organized or not). They'd even go so far as to outsource foreign policy to a tired old Israeli leader who really should talk less and solve more problems on his own. I mean, I never recall Ariel Sharon asking the US to do his dirty work for him.

One could point out all the terrorst attacks during the Carter (Iranian hostages), Reagan (Beirut bombing, kidnapping, CIA chief murder, Berlin bombing, Lockerbie), Clinton (USS Cole, African embassies), or BushII (9/11) Presidencies and a theme emerges. Terrorists are constantly trying to hit us with all they've got, and they occiasionally and unfortunately will break through. Watching a chickenhawk pampered rich boy claim that this wouldn't have happened if he was President is the height of stupidity, and then watching his pathetic followers attempt to justify it is even more laughable. Think about it: if a "robust" response to terrorism solves all problems, why did Lockerbie happen AFTER Reagan ordered Tripoli bombed in 1985?

Its a dangerous world people. Obama has put AQ in its place on a scale not seen in decades. Mittens reaction to this current incident shows just how out of touch he and his movement really is. Neo-conservatism, better known as neo-conartistism, is dead. It died in Iraq and it ain't coming back. The sooner you knuckledraggers learn that the sooner you'll be competitive in national elections again.

The Ex-Lax seems to be working.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Well said! And i give you credit-i did not make it that far into watching that piece of turd.

Right. Perhaps it's time to remind ourselves the "movie" appears to have been a pretext. Hard to imagine a "spontanous" demonstration to which demonstrators bring RPG's and mortars. Plus, these "spontaneous" demonstrators, filled with Muslim rage for the insults to their pig diddling "prophet", also seem to have known the location of our safe house in Benghazi. Hmmm.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Just pointing out a discreet example where an application of tough measures ended a hostage taking and evidently convinced the hostage takers to look elsewhere for victims.

Why?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Why?

Oh, surely even you knows that answer to that one.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Oh, surely even you knows that answer to that one.

So no reason then.