The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

[Rover]

For sure you can't ask the 400,000 Iraqis he imprisoned, tortured, raped and murdered.

How's about we let those Iraqis solve their own problems Old Pio? Or are you on board with losing 5,000 US soldiers and spending a trillion bucks to get rid of a two bit dictator? Funny, Quadaffi who killed a lot more Americans than Saddam (Lockerbie) got eliminated with a lot less effort.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

We could say the same thing about you trying to justify the Vietnam war. IIRC, there was similar backlash.

No, no, no. You don't understand. It's an "historical fact" that JFK signed a document to withdraw all American forces from Vietnam. And he's promised to provide "proof."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

How's about we let those Iraqis solve their own problems Old Pio? Or are you on board with losing 5,000 US soldiers and spending a trillion bucks to get rid of a two bit dictator? Funny, Quadaffi who killed a lot more Americans than Saddam (Lockerbie) got eliminated with a lot less effort.

Apples meet oranges. Mouthy, superficial, intellectually dishonest, bull shiza artist.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Hey I hear ya, but its true. Carter was a bad President because he seemed powerless to stop any of the bad things affecting the country. However, he didn't cause radical Iran, nor the oil embargo, nor the decline in manufacturing. Bush caused the surplus to turn into a massive deficit and caused the war in Iraq. Ergo (Argo? ) he's a far worse President.

You'll get your wish on one thing, as Rand Paul is looking good for the nomination next time around. Only possible person I can see getting in his way is Chris Christie and I'm not saying that's probable, just that its possible.

Dubya caused 9/11. Got it.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Dubya caused 9/11. Got it.

Remember, this is the guy who said his vote against Gerry Studds wasn't because the congressman was cornholing pages (who are we to judge?) but because he'd "lost his effectiveness" on Capitol Hill. What nuance.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

mookie is sending money to stephen lynch's campaign.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

For sure you can't ask the 400,000 Iraqis he imprisoned, tortured, raped and murdered.

March 19, 2003 I was a sophomore in high school. I was all hung ho about the Iraq war, as only a teenager raised in a post-9/11 world could be. I figured it was a just invasion because Saddam was a dictator, had been an aggressor before, and somehow I "just knew" his regime was involved in the 9/11 plot. Oh, and war is fun when you're young and stupid.

It's been a decade, and I'm a lot older. Hindsight is 20/20, and I now care about things closer to home a lot more - America's future and American lives. So, with all due respect for the Iraqis who truly do appreciate the heady ideals of democracy, excuse me for thinking more of my own neighbors and fellow citizens.

 

[Rover]

Dubya caused 9/11. Got it.

What does Iraq have to do with 9/11 flaggy? Can't wait to see this one...

 

[SteveP]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Leave it to that slimeball Reid to politicize the deaths of seven Marines. For Chrissakes, their bodies aren't even cold yet.

<iframe title="MRC TV video player" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.mrctv.org/embed/120478" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

What does Iraq have to do with 9/11 flaggy? Can't wait to see this one...

He's saying 9/11 wasn't GWB's fault therefore the surplus to deficit was not his fault either.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Dubya caused 9/11. Got it.

Even the 9/11 congressional report indicts several previous presidential and CIA administrations in their failure to recognize and respond to the threat of the terrorist network(s) that led to the tragedy of September 11, 2001. For all his faults, GWB was hardly alone in his ignorance of America's terrorist situation. As of late we've have domestic terrorists infiltrating our college campuses, while our terrorist experts focus on concerns abroad. However, the term 'terrorist' seems to be reserved for Islamists, while it could just as easily be applied to these school shooters.

Many (including myself) supported Bush's decision to invade Afghanistan in the events following 9/11. However, support for the Afghani and Iraqi offensive has waned as time wears on, and while I don't wish to cause instability in the region, I believe that with OBL dead, it's time for a withdrawl in Afghanistan similar to the one in Iraq. We should be refocusing our military presence on other areas of the world, including an evaluation of our military budget and needs here at home.

 

[GopherBigGuy911]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Even the 9/11 congressional report indicts several previous presidential and CIA administrations in their failure to recognize and respond to the threat of the terrorist network(s) that led to the tragedy of September 11, 2001. For all his faults, GWB was hardly alone in his ignorance of America's terrorist situation. As of late we've have domestic terrorists infiltrating our college campuses, while our terrorist experts focus on concerns abroad. However, the term 'terrorist' seems to be reserved for Islamists, while it could just as easily be applied to these school shooters.

Many (including myself) supported Bush's decision to invade Afghanistan in the events following 9/11. However, support for the Afghani and Iraqi offensive has waned as time wears on, and while I don't wish to cause instability in the region, I believe that with OBL dead, it's time for a withdrawl in Afghanistan similar to the one in Iraq. We should be refocusing our military presence on other areas of the world, including an evaluation of our military budget and needs here at home.

9-11-01 was NO ONE'S FAULT other than the terrorists and those who planned it. Since 9-11-01 we have gotten superbly lucky, not because we are all that GOOD at stopping terrorists attacks, but because for the most part our enemy is dumb as rocks (numerous "lone wolf" attacks that have failed due to stupidity). But, that being said; there have been numerous WMD's that HAVE made it to our shores. You would be SHOCKED at what we have found coming across both the southern AND northern boards and in our ports and it is just pure dumb luck that we have found them before they went off. I do say that our nuclear detection is second to none, but we have major issues with chemical and bio detection capability.

To be honest it is only a matter of time before we see a real offensive take place here in the US (think Isreal and Beslan) which has been delayed BECAUSE we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. As soon as we pull out of Afghanistan the Jihad will turn back to the Western World. Hundreds of thousands of jihadists no longer fighting us in their back yard, but ours.

If you think Bush expanded the war to Iraq for WMD's alone or oil I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

To be honest it is only a matter of time before we see a real offensive take place here in the US (think Isreal and Beslan) which has been delayed BECAUSE we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. As soon as we pull out of Afghanistan the Jihad will turn back to the Western World. Hundreds of thousands of jihadists no longer fighting us in their back yard, but ours.

If you think Bush expanded the war to Iraq for WMD's alone or oil I have a bridge to sell you.

These two thought processes have nothing to do with each other - the only "terrorists" in Iraq pre-2003 was Hussein. Never mind our presence in Afghanistan doesn't deter these jagoffs from amassing themselves in Iran, Yemen, Pakistan...

(btw this is not an argument against our going into Afghanistan)

 

[GopherBigGuy911]

These two thought processes have nothing to do with each other - the only "terrorists" in Iraq pre-2003 was Hussein. Never mind our presence in Afghanistan doesn't deter these jagoffs from amassing themselves in Iran, Yemen, Pakistan...

(btw this is not an argument against our going into Afghanistan)

Aw, but going after did several things. It got rid of a very bad man, but also forced Al -Queda and other jihadist groups to fight on 2 fronts. Iraq was like a bug zapper on the front porch or moths to flames. saddam was funding terrorists that were killing Isralies. He might not of directly funded operations, but he most certainly was giving rewards to those who committed the acts. Also all of our war plans were based around the fact that we expected the Iraqi military and police to not drop their arms and desert their posts. We expected to have their soldiers act like the German soldiers did after WW2 where they stopped their fighting and assumed their old roles just under an American occupation force. We did not plan on having to fill such a power vacuume. Since, we were unprepared for this the Iraqi people and former soldiers turned on us. They got fed up with the fact we could not instantly turn their country around and into a 1st world nation. As time went on Al-Queda used that to their advantage.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Many (including myself) supported Bush's decision to invade Afghanistan in the events following 9/11. However, support for the Afghani and Iraqi offensive has waned as time wears on, and while I don't wish to cause instability in the region, I believe that with OBL dead, it's time for a withdrawl in Afghanistan similar to the one in Iraq. We should be refocusing our military presence on other areas of the world, including an evaluation of our military budget and needs here at home.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

The biggest difference between OBL and Hussein was that one truly was the leader of the country, the other an organization.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

9-11-01 was NO ONE'S FAULT other than the terrorists and those who planned it. Since 9-11-01 we have gotten superbly lucky, not because we are all that GOOD at stopping terrorists attacks, but because for the most part our enemy is dumb as rocks (numerous "lone wolf" attacks that have failed due to stupidity). But, that being said; there have been numerous WMD's that HAVE made it to our shores. You would be SHOCKED at what we have found coming across both the southern AND northern boards and in our ports and it is just pure dumb luck that we have found them before they went off. I do say that our nuclear detection is second to none, but we have major issues with chemical and bio detection capability.

To be honest it is only a matter of time before we see a real offensive take place here in the US (think Isreal and Beslan) which has been delayed BECAUSE we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. As soon as we pull out of Afghanistan the Jihad will turn back to the Western World. Hundreds of thousands of jihadists no longer fighting us in their back yard, but ours.

If you think Bush expanded the war to Iraq for WMD's alone or oil I have a bridge to sell you.

One other factor you can add to fortune is geography. This is the advantage of manifest destiny and having two big ponds on either side. Granted, there's always Canada and Mexico, as you described, but it's stlil easier than effectively four land borders.

 

[Rover]

Aw, but going after did several things. It got rid of a very bad man, but also forced Al -Queda and other jihadist groups to fight on 2 fronts. Iraq was like a bug zapper on the front porch or moths to flames. saddam was funding terrorists that were killing Isralies. He might not of directly funded operations, but he most certainly was giving rewards to those who committed the acts. Also all of our war plans were based around the fact that we expected the Iraqi military and police to not drop their arms and desert their posts. We expected to have their soldiers act like the German soldiers did after WW2 where they stopped their fighting and assumed their old roles just under an American occupation force. We did not plan on having to fill such a power vacuume. Since, we were unprepared for this the Iraqi people and former soldiers turned on us. They got fed up with the fact we could not instantly turn their country around and into a 1st world nation. As time went on Al-Queda used that to their advantage.

This is a neo-conartist wet dream of the situation. Don't you think the crazies trying to attack us, after a few years, would have thought...hmmm, maybe we fake an offensive in Iraq but then attack them elsewhere? The notion that somehow invading Iraq kept terrorists away from the US shores is juvenile and ridiculous. There's plenty of terrorists to go around as we've seen when they go into places like Mali, Yemen, etc. Hell, OBL was tucked away in Pakistan away from the fighting when he was found.

Regarding Saddam, how is he any worse than any two bit dictator out there? Did we invade Libya to get rid of Quadaffi, who was also paying terrorists? Did Bush invade Syria, which was doing the same? No, so this argument holds no water. The Iraq war was a collosal mistake by arrogant jack@ sses who thought they could bend the Middle East to their will with a splashy show of military force. There's simply no justifying it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

This is a neo-conartist wet dream of the situation. Don't you think the crazies trying to attack us, after a few years, would have thought...hmmm, maybe we fake an offensive in Iraq but then attack them elsewhere? The notion that somehow invading Iraq kept terrorists away from the US shores is juvenile and ridiculous. There's plenty of terrorists to go around as we've seen when they go into places like Mali, Yemen, etc. Hell, OBL was tucked away in Pakistan away from the fighting when he was found.

Regarding Saddam, how is he any worse than any two bit dictator out there? Did we invade Libya to get rid of Quadaffi, who was also paying terrorists? Did Bush invade Syria, which was doing the same? No, so this argument holds no water. The Iraq war was a collosal mistake by arrogant jack@ sses who thought they could bend the Middle East to their will with a splashy show of military force. There's simply no justifying it.

A dollar says that if Obama decided to invade Iraq, Grover would not be spewing this drivel.

BTW, was Grover all anti-war before the messiah dictator was elected? It would just go to show that he's not about the concepts, or executions, but making sure his cronies get the historical credit.

 

[Rover]

A dollar says that if Obama decided to invade Iraq, Grover would not be spewing this drivel.

As Iraq was the most ill advised war in the nation's history, one can't say that Obama or any other Prez, Republican or Democrat would have done the same. Only your hero, GWB, is responsible for that and please spare me the "I didn't like the guy" schlock. All you knucks' loved the guy right up until his poll #'s started going south.

Its okay to leave responsibility where it belongs. On this one, it clearly belongs with neo-cons which is why they should never be put into a position of power again. Had McSame or Mittens been President we'd still be in Iraq, Afghanistan would be an open ended committment and we'd most likey have troops in Syria.

Regarding anti-war, I was fully supportive of the Gulf War, Bosnian Wars, and Afghan War. I understood why we were there and what we were doing. Grenada, sure. Beirut, no for other conflicts.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

What a shocker, cutbacks at the lame-stream media because of ratings. http://www.businessweek.com/article...y-the-news-business-is-awful-people-want-news