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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Vietnam was to stop the spread of communism. There were communists infiltrating the country as even Ike knew when he sent troops there. Iraq was about ridding Saddam of WMD's. Tell me Flaggy, where there any WMD's when we invaded?

:rolleyes:
and find me one person "in the know" at the time that didn't think Saddam had WMDs? I don't remember hearing the Democrat leadership at the time claim there were none...
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Looks like chemical weapons may have been used for the first time in Syria.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57575054/syria-rebels-regime-blame-each-other-for-first-alleged-chemical-weapons-attack/

The options for where things go in Syria just get uglier and uglier. I can't blame Obama for what the administration has/hasn't done on Syria. There is no good course of action and hasn't been one for awhile. And with Syrian planes now hitting targets within Lebanon, it looks like a real possibility that this thing will spread to the tinderbox of Lebanon, and possibly beyond. Yikes.
 
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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

and find me one person "in the know" at the time that didn't think Saddam had WMDs? I don't remember hearing the Democrat leadership at the time claim there were none...

They were whining about it even back then, so Kerry, Pelosi, all the libtard heavy hitters. What Grover doesn't understand was that the fight going to Iraq was not about WMDs. It was brought to Iraq because that is the central place to get anywhere in the Middle East (ask Sean Penn; after all he's been to Iraq). It's sort of like if you wanted to disturb NYC transit, you'd take out Penn Station, since pretty much everything goes there.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

OK, this post is just WAY too funny, I HAD to put it here. This is from http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...a-history-channel-broadcast-article-1.1291615

RTDH ABBS said:
Illuminati Satanists believe that a carefully planned event must be carried out according to the correct numbers, or it may not be successful. They go to great lengths to make an event occur according to the correct numbers.

Occultists place much faith in the inherent power of number, they can discretely incorporate their secretive numbers in dates and company logos. The Pop music culture is saturated with Illuminati satanism. The Google Chrome Logo also contains three sixes in circular formation. This is how these guys operate to push their satanic agenda

Obama is 44th president of the United States of America and the word "Beast" is mentioned in its singular form 44 times in the book of Revelations. The word tribulations is used 44 times in the Bible and 11 times in the OT and 33 times in the NT.

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six". Revelation 13:16-18

A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9 J=10 K=11 L=12 M= 13 N=14 O=15 P=16 Q=17 R=18 S=19 T=20 U=21 V=22 W=23 X=24 Y=25 Z=26.

Barack: 2+1+18+1+3+11=36
Hussein: 8+21+19+19+5+9+14=95
Obama: 15+2+1+13+1=32
Add these: 36+95+32=163.
Multiply by the Beast: 163 x 666 = 108,558.
Split and Add: 108 + 558 = 666.

Barack Obama Born 4 August 1961 the 216th day of the year. 216= 6x6x6.

Take note of the SEVERE occult numerology preprogrammed by Illuminati satanists into Barack Obama's forthcoming Jerusalem visit. Just like the recent Papal Conclave it centers around the occult number "13".

Barack Obama will be present in Jerusalem on Friday 22 March 2013 = 3.22/13 (US Format) = 3.22/2013 = 3+2+2+2+0+1+3 = 13. 3.22/13 "Skull & Bones" + 13. "Skull & Bones" = 666 13 = Death.

3.22/13 is exactly 33 years from the day since the official inauguration of the Georgia Guidestones often referred to as the Devils 10 Commandment's or bench mark for the "New World Order" They are inscribed in 8 languages including English, Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, and Russian. Swahili is Obama's home town Kenyan Language.. 1st Commandment of this Occult monument speaks of a global cull "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature".

Jesus was also crucified at 33 years. Could we see possibly see a mimic in Jerusalem on the Death and resurrection of Christ?

"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast". Revelation 13.3

The date set for the Papal conclave also centered entirely around the occult number "13". 3.13/13 = 03/13/2013 = 0+3+1+3+2+0+1+3 = 13. The exact time was 7:06 pm (local Roman time), which is 7+6 =13 and adds up to another 13. The new pope was chosen exactly 13 days after Benedict resigned
 
and find me one person "in the know" at the time that didn't think Saddam had WMDs? I don't remember hearing the Democrat leadership at the time claim there were none...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims


Here you go slappy. Weapons inspectors thought the same thing after they, you know, went into the country and couldn't find any. :rolleyes: The fact that people like yourself continue to defend this war proves in fact that you long for justification of the most foolhardy war in US history. As far as the Dems go, they were given the same doctored intelligence as the rest of us, so you can hardly blame them for acting when told Saddam was about to acquire a nuclear bomb: remember the "we can't let the smoking gun come in the form of a mushroom cloud" nonsense.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/18/panorama-iraq-fresh-wmd-claims


Here you go slappy. Weapons inspectors thought the same thing after they, you know, went into the country and couldn't find any. :rolleyes: The fact that people like yourself continue to defend this war proves in fact that you long for justification of the most foolhardy war in US history. As far as the Dems go, they were given the same doctored intelligence as the rest of us, so you can hardly blame them for acting when told Saddam was about to acquire a nuclear bomb: remember the "we can't let the smoking gun come in the form of a mushroom cloud" nonsense.
Way to put words in my mouth, I never claimed that I am waiting for Bush to be proved right by history. I just said that the majority was in favor of the war at the time. All your article has is "intelligence" from someone that seems likely not to provide accurate information. Why would the Iraqi head of intelligence say anything but we don't have WMDs? All I'm trying to say is that based on the information we had, we acted correctly. Who provided the wrong information and who allowed this wrong information to be accepted as fact is still an issue, but seriously you're just an a ss hat. Hindsight is always 20/20 but I thought Democrats always got credit for things when they had the best of intentions? Why don't republicans get the same? ;)
 
Way to put words in my mouth, I never claimed that I am waiting for Bush to be proved right by history. I just said that the majority was in favor of the war at the time. All your article has is "intelligence" from someone that seems likely not to provide accurate information. Why would the Iraqi head of intelligence say anything but we don't have WMDs? All I'm trying to say is that based on the information we had, we acted correctly. Who provided the wrong information and who allowed this wrong information to be accepted as fact is still an issue, but seriously you're just an a ss hat. Hindsight is always 20/20 but I thought Democrats always got credit for things when they had the best of intentions? Why don't republicans get the same? ;)


You gotta be kidding trying to justify that idiot war with the "it was justified with what we knew at the time". For the bazillionth time in the hopes that maybe it gets through, what we knew at the time was made up! Do you comprehend that? The Bush admin doctored reports to make it look like a threat when in fact none existed. Noodle on that for a bit. Not because they had some sort of payoff coming from the military industrial complex or other such nonsense, but because they arrogantly miscalculated being seen a liberators and historic figures who forced the Middle East into some sort of neo-conservative fantasyland govt in their own image.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

You gotta be kidding trying to justify that idiot war with the "it was justified with what we knew at the time". For the bazillionth time in the hopes that maybe it gets through, what we knew at the time was made up! Do you comprehend that? The Bush admin doctored reports to make it look like a threat when in fact none existed. Noodle on that for a bit. Not because they had some sort of payoff coming from the military industrial complex or other such nonsense, but because they arrogantly miscalculated being seen a liberators and historic figures who forced the Middle East into some sort of neo-conservative fantasyland govt in their own image.

We could say the same thing about you trying to justify the Vietnam war. IIRC, there was similar backlash.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Looks like chemical weapons may have been used for the first time in Syria.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57575054/syria-rebels-regime-blame-each-other-for-first-alleged-chemical-weapons-attack/

The options for where things go in Syria just get uglier and uglier. I can't blame Obama for what the administration has/hasn't done on Syria. There is no good course of action and hasn't been one for awhile. And with Syrian planes now hitting targets within Lebanon, it looks like a real possibility that this thing will spread to the tinderbox of Lebanon, and possibly beyond. Yikes.

It is a tough call. What do you do?

The safest action is world consensus. But even then, its a dictator with quite a bit of power fighting for his life. Anything short of invasion isn't going to stop him...and the costs of inveasion for everyone are just so high as we've seen elsewhere recently.

The real question for the US remains: where are we on the spectrum of interventionist to isolationist? And how much are we willing to pay for being interventionist?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

It is a tough call. What do you do?

The safest action is world consensus. But even then, its a dictator with quite a bit of power fighting for his life. Anything short of invasion isn't going to stop him...and the costs of inveasion for everyone are just so high as we've seen elsewhere recently.

The real question for the US remains: where are we on the spectrum of interventionist to isolationist? And how much are we willing to pay for being interventionist?

Sometimes, a **** just has to **** an *******, or we get our ***** and ******* all covered in ****.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

any thoughts on whether or not that war was a good idea?

I'm sure there are plenty of Iraqis who thought that their liberation was a great idea!



"The Finance Minister resigns!” This was the headline in Iraqi newspapers the other day, reporting on the minister’s “disagreements” with the prime minister and the possibility of other ministerial defections.

Most of Iraq’s 100 or so newspapers and magazines covered the story, offering different analyses and comments.

Ten years ago, in Saddam Hussein’s “Republic of Fear,” this would’ve been unthinkable. Under the despot, no official high or low would dare think of resignation. One was either fired by the Ra’is (chief) or kept one’s mouth shut.

And being fired wasn’t the end of the story. The disgraced official might be imprisoned, exiled or even murdered. Between 1977 and 2003, over 200 top officials, including six ministers and 14 members of the ruling Ba’ath party, were liquidated.

Then, too, the news would either be kept out of the media or carried as a filler of a few words in inside pages of the party newspaper. There would, of course, be no comment. The disgraced official would become a nonperson. Sometimes his entire family would be wiped out or jailed.

In Iraq, the only risk-free move was to praise Saddam. In 20 years, artists and photographers produced 20 million portraits of him. By 2003, no fewer than 10,000 busts and marble and bronze effigies of the tyrant polluted the Iraqi landscape.

Saddam’s atrocities, including the massacre of women and children with chemical weapons in Halabcheh, are too well documented to need recall. His sinister prison, known as The Palace of the End, was a death factory that claimed more than 100,000 lives.

....

Now things are different. With fear gone, Iraqis are exercising their right to complain, criticize and vilify their leaders to the full. They comment on everything under the sun.

They’re also free to travel, both inside and outside the country, which needed authorization from the secret police under Saddam. They have satellite TV, cellphones, computers and even bicycles — things Saddam’s secret police deemed symbols of treason, punishable by imprisonment or death.

....

Change in Iraq triggered a decade of change in the region. The Lebanese launched their Cedar Revolution, which led to the expulsion of the Syrian army of occupation. The “Arab Spring” swept away most ”security-military” regimes from Tunisia to Yemen. Frozen out of history for decades, several Arab states were plunged into what one could call creative chaos.

In the last decade, Iraqis have experienced immense suffering caused by sectarianism, jihadism, corruption and incompetence. Yet Iraq is a better place than under Saddam.

Liberated, Iraq is the only Arab country, so far, to have changed governments three times through elections and also the only one where all political parties operate freely.

The invasion was not about the United States setting up bases or stealing Iraq’s oil or using Iraq for an invasion of Iran, as Saddam’s apologists claimed. Nor was it about imposing democracy by force. It was about two things: stopping a time bomb that was ticking in the heart of the region and removing the impediment to democratization that was Saddam's regime.

More than a million Americans fought and worked in Iraq. They share part of the credit for the fact that Iraqis today are able to run their own lives without fear. They can be proud that, once again, American power was used to free a nation from tyranny. [emphases added]

The world is a better place with Saddam gone. I hope you are not planning to argue that we'd all be better off if Saddam was still in power??

Now, if you are asking "was it worth it?" that is a different question.
 
The world is a better place with Saddam gone. I hope you are not planning to argue that we'd all be better off if Saddam was still in power??

Now, if you are asking "was it worth it?" that is a different question.

The second question, and the answer is a resounding no. If so many Iraqis loved having us there, I'm curious why they were trying to kill so many of our troops.

Some righty had a good comment about a potential Jeb Bush Presidential run. What he said was conservatives and the GOP haven't come to grips with how much a disaster GWB's Presidency was. Until they repudiate it (war, deficit,etc) its going to be awful hard for the public to take them seriously. Far too many cons are still trying to justify Iraq as a good idea as evidenced by this thread and several articles in right leaning papers today (WSJ, Boston Herald, etc). Sometimes you gotta call it like it is. No Dems thought Clinton getting hummers from fat interns was a good idea, and nobody died in that incident. Intersting how so few conservatives whether they be public figures or not can bring themselves to own up to their last Republican President. Simply put, he and his decisions were worse than the Carter Presidency, and I never thought I'd live to see that day.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

The second question, and the answer is a resounding no. If so many Iraqis loved having us there, I'm curious why they were trying to kill so many of our troops.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S4bjRh2uGuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>a
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

The second question, and the answer is a resounding no. If so many Iraqis loved having us there, I'm curious why they were trying to kill so many of our troops.

Some righty had a good comment about a potential Jeb Bush Presidential run. What he said was conservatives and the GOP haven't come to grips with how much a disaster GWB's Presidency was. Until they repudiate it (war, deficit,etc) its going to be awful hard for the public to take them seriously. Far too many cons are still trying to justify Iraq as a good idea as evidenced by this thread and several articles in right leaning papers today (WSJ, Boston Herald, etc). Sometimes you gotta call it like it is. No Dems thought Clinton getting hummers from fat interns was a good idea, and nobody died in that incident. Intersting how so few conservatives whether they be public figures or not can bring themselves to own up to their last Republican President. Simply put, he and his decisions were worse than the Carter Presidency, and I never thought I'd live to see that day.
George W Bush was not a good president or a good conservative. Being worse than Carter is a pretty strong statement. I have never said that in hindsight the Iraqi War was right or that history will judge Bush positively. The Bush family has done more to hurt the conservative party than just about anyone in the last 30+ years. I don't think you'd hear many libertarian leaning folks like me disagree with that statement. Bush spent more than anyone would ever like to admit and it was bad for the country and republicans protected him and allowed him to continue to do it. That makes it even harder to stop the spending now because the right looks like nothing more than hypocrites and the republican leadership in washington is probably filled with hypocrites rather than people who actually care about cutting spending.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

From the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, signed into law by President Bill Clinton, Oct. 31, 1998:

Since March 1996, Iraq has systematically sought to deny weapons inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) access to key facilities and documents, has on several occasions endangered the safe operation of UNSCOM helicopters transporting UNSCOM personnel in Iraq, and has persisted in a pattern of deception and concealment regarding the history of its weapons of mass destruction programs. . . .

On August 14, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-235, which declared that 'the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President 'to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations.' . . .

It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.

So it was bipartisan policy on Iraq that predated GWB's election! I did not know that.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I'm sure there are plenty of Iraqis who thought that their liberation was a great idea!







The world is a better place with Saddam gone. I hope you are not planning to argue that we'd all be better off if Saddam was still in power??

Now, if you are asking "was it worth it?" that is a different question.

For sure you can't ask the 400,000 Iraqis he imprisoned, tortured, raped and murdered.
 
George W Bush was not a good president or a good conservative. Being worse than Carter is a pretty strong statement. I have never said that in hindsight the Iraqi War was right or that history will judge Bush positively. The Bush family has done more to hurt the conservative party than just about anyone in the last 30+ years. I don't think you'd hear many libertarian leaning folks like me disagree with that statement. Bush spent more than anyone would ever like to admit and it was bad for the country and republicans protected him and allowed him to continue to do it. That makes it even harder to stop the spending now because the right looks like nothing more than hypocrites and the republican leadership in washington is probably filled with hypocrites rather than people who actually care about cutting spending.

Hey I hear ya, but its true. Carter was a bad President because he seemed powerless to stop any of the bad things affecting the country. However, he didn't cause radical Iran, nor the oil embargo, nor the decline in manufacturing. Bush caused the surplus to turn into a massive deficit and caused the war in Iraq. Ergo (Argo? ;)) he's a far worse President.

You'll get your wish on one thing, as Rand Paul is looking good for the nomination next time around. Only possible person I can see getting in his way is Chris Christie and I'm not saying that's probable, just that its possible.
 
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