The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

[LynahFan]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

That explains a lot! Same nonsensical arguments and just-been-in-solitary-confinement-for-6-months anger!

Now that I've reinforced the notion with facts that blue states are subsidizing red states, likes give righty posters time to admit that while we the rest of us move on.

I don't get the angst over the current budget deals. Particularly out of my liberal cousins. There's been a lot of whining about how spending cuts are 4:1 vs tax hikes. That's all well and good, but missing in that analysis is that half the spending cuts are from the bloated defense department. It gets a little tricky as reduced debt payments count as part of the total reductions, but from my count you have 700Bn in tax hikes, so 2.8T in spending cuts on a 4 to 1 ratio to give 3.5T. Rest to get to 4T is debt payment cuts. Of that 2.8T at least half is military spending, probably a little more as proportionately that's the biggest non-entitlement line item. So by my count you've achieved relative parity in who's priorities for deficit reduction are being met. In a functioning democracy, you get tradeoffs in a shared power arrangement like we have now. For the first time in who knows how long conservatives have signed off on upper income tax hikes and defense cuts. What exactly should I be PO'd about again?

Now what I would like to see is getting rid of the low hanging fruit in the corporate tax code. Get rid of oil/Ag subsidies, carried interest, etc. On the entitlement side, enact tort reform, allow Medicare to bargain for prescription drugs, etc. Congress can bang out some easy wins here without actually causing any pain to the public. A so-called Grand Bargain I don't see happening but really with very little effort the country can achieve half what it needs to balance the budget with improved growth taking care of the rest.

Who are you and what have you done with crazy Rover? Can you bring him back, please?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

That explains a lot! Same nonsensical arguments and just-been-in-solitary-confinement-for-6-months anger!

Now that I've reinforced the notion with facts that blue states are subsidizing red states, likes give righty posters time to admit that while we the rest of us move on.

I don't get the angst over the current budget deals. Particularly out of my liberal cousins. There's been a lot of whining about how spending cuts are 4:1 vs tax hikes. That's all well and good, but missing in that analysis is that half the spending cuts are from the bloated defense department. It gets a little tricky as reduced debt payments count as part of the total reductions, but from my count you have 700Bn in tax hikes, so 2.8T in spending cuts on a 4 to 1 ratio to give 3.5T. Rest to get to 4T is debt payment cuts. Of that 2.8T at least half is military spending, probably a little more as proportionately that's the biggest non-entitlement line item. So by my count you've achieved relative parity in who's priorities for deficit reduction are being met. In a functioning democracy, you get tradeoffs in a shared power arrangement like we have now. For the first time in who knows how long conservatives have signed off on upper income tax hikes and defense cuts. What exactly should I be PO'd about again?

Now what I would like to see is getting rid of the low hanging fruit in the corporate tax code. Get rid of oil/Ag subsidies, carried interest, etc. On the entitlement side, enact tort reform, allow Medicare to bargain for prescription drugs, etc. Congress can bang out some easy wins here without actually causing any pain to the public. A so-called Grand Bargain I don't see happening but really with very little effort the country can achieve half what it needs to balance the budget with improved growth taking care of the rest.

In this day and age with megafarming the norm, I think ag subsidies could be capped at a certain amount and still provide protection for the remaining family farmer while not wasting money on giant corporations like conagra foods, etc.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

That explains a lot! Same nonsensical arguments and just-been-in-solitary-confinement-for-6-months anger!

Now that I've reinforced the notion with facts that blue states are subsidizing red states, likes give righty posters time to admit that while we the rest of us move on.

I don't get the angst over the current budget deals. Particularly out of my liberal cousins. There's been a lot of whining about how spending cuts are 4:1 vs tax hikes. That's all well and good, but missing in that analysis is that half the spending cuts are from the bloated defense department. It gets a little tricky as reduced debt payments count as part of the total reductions, but from my count you have 700Bn in tax hikes, so 2.8T in spending cuts on a 4 to 1 ratio to give 3.5T. Rest to get to 4T is debt payment cuts. Of that 2.8T at least half is military spending, probably a little more as proportionately that's the biggest non-entitlement line item. So by my count you've achieved relative parity in who's priorities for deficit reduction are being met. In a functioning democracy, you get tradeoffs in a shared power arrangement like we have now. For the first time in who knows how long conservatives have signed off on upper income tax hikes and defense cuts. What exactly should I be PO'd about again?

Now what I would like to see is getting rid of the low hanging fruit in the corporate tax code. Get rid of oil/Ag subsidies, carried interest, etc. On the entitlement side, enact tort reform, allow Medicare to bargain for prescription drugs, etc. Congress can bang out some easy wins here without actually causing any pain to the public. A so-called Grand Bargain I don't see happening but really with very little effort the country can achieve half what it needs to balance the budget with improved growth taking care of the rest.

Silver subsidies?! Knew I should have hung onto SLV...

Some of the angst that I am hearing through Youtube commercials (not sure if you see them or not; after all the ads are selective based upon Google searches and likes) is around the fact that the cuts represent a pennies-on-the-dollar (I believe they use 3%) cut in the federal budget. I don't know what their point is, as I typically hit "Skip Ad" in order to watch what I watch. At this point, I'm glad to see we're taking efforts to reduce spending (280b is greater than 0), but where they do have a point is the hyperbolic nature of your post, which is correlated with Congress' and the administration's talking points. I am going to make an assumption, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, that you are using ten year figures. This means that we are really seeing 280b in spending cuts and 70b in tax hikes. In addition, these are projected values, and do not reflect what is actually spent. It could very well be that they're not collecting enough and spending even more. Every dollar of spending that is not covered by a dollar of revenue results in additional mandatory spending the next year, in the form of paying off creditors.

I'm happy to see you are recommending various cuts. I also agree that we don't need a grand bargain, because every single one we've had in the past few years have resulted in the country spending dollars to save a nickel. I think we should look into pulling back the nonsense parts of the PPACA, as we have already found that it is not revenue neutral. We should also look at a number of the "pet projects" to help save some bucks as well, although not spend too much time on it, mostly because of what I previously said about spending dollars to save nickels. I know it isn't ethical, but unfortunately the only way I see this happening is to basically a play from the fascist's book and sneak it into the middle of a lengthy bill. Sometimes you just have to take your opponent's game and throw it right back in their face.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Who are you and what have you done with crazy Rover? Can you bring him back, please?

A broken clock's right twice a day. Give the kid some credit for coming up with something constructive for once. If (more likely when) Rover goes back to the diarrhoea we know he spews, then it's time to poke some fun.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I'm multi-talented! So if its easier to relate to lets look at it on an in year basis.

Upcoming deficit for this year is projected to be approx 800Bn. This # would reflect savings already achieved in 2011 Budget Control act (about 150Bn) as well as reduced war spending for getting out of Iraq (40Bn savings. Was 160Bn at its height down to 120Bn now). Makes sense as previous deficits ran a little over 1T.

So, 800Bn a year. Sequester knocks out 120Bn, tax hikes are 70Bn so we're in the 600Bn a year range for the deficit. I'm going to assume the payroll tax increase is already baked into the 800Bn. If not that would be another 100Bn in deficit reduction but again I think that may have been accounted for as it was happening automatically.

Now get rid of the low hanging fruit in the tax code. With the aforementioned lobbyist inspired crap I'm sure you could raise a good 25Bn a year. Do the same easy changes in Medicare (prescription drug bargaining, tort reform, etc) and you're looking at another 75Bn most likely. Now we're down to 500Bn deficit BEFORE any tax code rewrites or large scale entitlement changes and before economic growth kicks in fully. That's d@mn good progress although you wouldn't know it by reading lamestream media accounts which thrive on doom and gloom. If you can get more savings from tax code/entitlements, great, but I won't hold my breath. Point is we may not need it as projected healthcare spending has come down by 400Bn over the next 10 years according to new CBO estimates so savings are being achieved in spite of the political stalemate going on currently.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I'm multi-talented! So if its easier to relate to lets look at it on an in year basis.

Upcoming deficit for this year is projected to be approx 800Bn. This # would reflect savings already achieved in 2011 Budget Control act (about 150Bn) as well as reduced war spending for getting out of Iraq (40Bn savings. Was 160Bn at its height down to 120Bn now). Makes sense as previous deficits ran a little over 1T.

So, 800Bn a year. Sequester knocks out 120Bn, tax hikes are 70Bn so we're in the 600Bn a year range for the deficit. I'm going to assume the payroll tax increase is already baked into the 800Bn. If not that would be another 100Bn in deficit reduction but again I think that may have been accounted for as it was happening automatically.

Now get rid of the low hanging fruit in the tax code. With the aforementioned lobbyist inspired crap I'm sure you could raise a good 25Bn a year. Do the same easy changes in Medicare (prescription drug bargaining, tort reform, etc) and you're looking at another 75Bn most likely. Now we're down to 500Bn deficit BEFORE any tax code rewrites or large scale entitlement changes and before economic growth kicks in fully. That's d@mn good progress although you wouldn't know it by reading lamestream media accounts which thrive on doom and gloom. If you can get more savings from tax code/entitlements, great, but I won't hold my breath. Point is we may not need it as projected healthcare spending has come down by 400Bn over the next 10 years according to new CBO estimates so savings are being achieved in spite of the political stalemate going on currently.

Hang on a second, where are we getting the idea that health care spending is going to go down 40B? Unless a number of people are leaving the country or some force (whether naturally induced or the government intends to use those hollow point bullets they've hoarded) wipes out a large percentage of the population, you're not going to see a decrease in health care spending. Sure, it's a nice concept that the CBO came up with, but how is that going to be executed? Are ERs all of a sudden going to stop taking people in? Are they adjusting for the medical practitioners that are going to "retire" because the bureaucracy of the PPACA makes it impractical for them to practice? Although, while we're on the subject, I saw an interesting PSA in the Binghamton NY area urging residents not to go to the ER for small ailments.

Also, I might as well ask... when are we going to get to a balanced budget? The only way we're going to be able to do it is to dump some of these ideas that Obama has shoved down our throats.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rand Paul press release:

Today, following a historic 13-hour filibuster on the Senate floor that ended early this morning, Sen. Rand Paul received correspondence from the White House regarding the legality and constitutionality of the U.S. government using lethal force, including drone strikes, on Americans and in U.S. territory. Sen. Paul's repeated correspondence to President Obama's nominee to be CIA director, John Brennan, was finally answered today, in part, with the following response from Attorney General Eric Holder: "'Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?' The answer to that question is no." (emphasis added)

"This is a major victory for American civil liberties and ensures the protection of our basic Constitutional rights. We have Separation of Powers to protect our rights. That's what government was organized to do and that's what the Constitution was put in place to do," Sen. Paul said. "I would like to congratulate my fellow colleagues in both the House and Senate and thank them for joining me in protecting the rights of due process."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rand Paul press release:

I wouldn't put it past the messiah dictator to say he's above the law.

 

[Rover]

Hang on a second, where are we getting the idea that health care spending is going to go down 40B? Unless a number of people are leaving the country or some force (whether naturally induced or the government intends to use those hollow point bullets they've hoarded) wipes out a large percentage of the population, you're not going to see a decrease in health care spending. Sure, it's a nice concept that the CBO came up with, but how is that going to be executed? Are ERs all of a sudden going to stop taking people in? Are they adjusting for the medical practitioners that are going to "retire" because the bureaucracy of the PPACA makes it impractical for them to practice? Although, while we're on the subject, I saw an interesting PSA in the Binghamton NY area urging residents not to go to the ER for small ailments.

Also, I might as well ask... when are we going to get to a balanced budget? The only way we're going to be able to do it is to dump some of these ideas that Obama has shoved down our throats.

The CBO scores on how they think heathcare costs will trend over the next 10 years. If they get updated data, they bring down the estimate. So, health care costs aren't being cut 40Bn from today's dollars. The growth of the costs has come down 40Bn vs prior estimates.

As to why, I suspect it relates to changing how doctors are paid (for total care not by procedure). I know when I went to the dentist the guy (who I happen to like) took 5 X-rays. I told him that since I was paying for this particular procedure how about we make do with 2, as while I have a big mouth its not that big to need 5 angles to cover.

Regarding a balanced budget, lets say we get to the 500Bn I talked about with relatively minor effort. Economic growth is going to account for a huge amount of the rest of it, as well it should. That's why you can't strangle growth with austerity (the UK for example). Getting half through govt action and half through growth is the way to go. As that may leave us a little short, the final remaining piece will be corporate tax and entitlement reform. Chained CPI, retirement ages, offshore tax shelters, Buffett rule, etc. That should get us across the finish line but will clealry be the hardest part.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rand Paul press release:

Conservative pundits are really tripping over themselves to congratulate Paul. Some due to timing/savvy, others due to outcomes. Not so much me. Domestic drones are really a very small issue (drones might even have been useful in taking down some serious domestic criminals while in the act). Also, this is not an example of creating new constructive policy, but more just 'no'. And it uses the filibuster which is a way to skirt the intention of the Constitution (in terms of legislative majority rule) vs. rule by whoever can talk the longest. Not the greatest example of political excellence we've seen from either party.

Although it may be a seed for Paul in the future, it will all be forgotten in a few months.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Conservative pundits are really tripping over themselves to congratulate Paul. Some due to timing/savvy, others due to outcomes. Not so much me. Domestic drones are really a very small issue (drones might even have been useful in taking down some serious domestic criminals while in the act). Also, this is not an example of creating new constructive policy, but more just 'no'. And it uses the filibuster which is a way to skirt the intention of the Constitution (in terms of legislative majority rule) vs. rule by whoever can talk the longest. Not the greatest example of political excellence we've seen from either party.

Although it may be a seed for Paul in the future, it will all be forgotten in a few months.

The same people who wet themselves for years about "enhanced interrogation" techniques and how water boarding is "torture" and "unconstitutional," now profess not the slightest qualm about a POTUS (or his AG) asserting a virtually unlimited authority for that POTUS to kill Americans, in country, with zero due process.

Whatever could account for that?

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

. Domestic drones are really a very small issue (drones might even have been useful in taking down some serious domestic criminals while in the act). .

Maybe its drones that have been shooting at you?

 

[mookie1995]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Maybe its drones that have been shooting at you?

just let him go... that may have been the most insane thing ever typed here

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

The same people who wet themselves for years about "enhanced interrogation" techniques and how water boarding is "torture" and "unconstitutional," now profess not the slightest qualm about a POTUS (or his AG) asserting a virtually unlimited authority for that POTUS to kill Americans, in country, with zero due process.

Whatever could account for that?

The US govt does not torture US citizens. I can see how this is an unacceptable practice.

Yet today law enforcement uses many weapons to kill criminals. Why are drones any different?

I feel sorry for other posters who find themselves on the sidelines because they can't discuss the issues. Walrus, try to participate.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Furloughs bite for customs workers
By Mike M. Ahlers, CNN

The U.S. government on Thursday notified 60,000 federal workers responsible for securing borders and facilitating trade that they will face furloughs due to government-wide spending cuts. Customs and Border Protection said it expects furloughs and other austerity will cause delays at ports of entry, including international arrivals at airports, and reduce the number of border patrol officers on duty at any one time.

David Aguilar, the agency's deputy commissioner, said it must cut about $754 million by September 30, the end of the fiscal year. It aims to reach that goal through agency-wide furloughs, a hiring freeze, and reducing or eliminating overtime, compensatory time, travel and training.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Yet today law enforcement uses many weapons to kill criminals. Why are drones any different?

go google/search reason magazine and tell me how many criminals in the US are picked off killed walking down the street... or driving their car to the store... or sitting outside next to the pool... by law enforcement.

i'll wait here for you to come back......

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

The US govt does not torture US citizens. I can see how this is an unacceptable practice.

Yet today law enforcement uses many weapons to kill criminals. Why are drones any different?

I feel sorry for other posters who find themselves on the sidelines because they can't discuss the issues. Walrus, try to participate.

The king of non sequitors strikes again. The issue was not that the US government was "torturing" Americans, the issue was that the US government was "torturing" anybody. And the libstains spent years p*ssing themselves, crying huge tears about KSM and one or two other HVT's who gave it up.

You ignorantly use the phrase "law enforcement," which generally means state and local authorities, and has nothing to do with HIM-BI. And you equally ignorantly claim "law enforcement" uses "many weapons" to kill criminals. Define "many". And how many bad guys die at the hands of the cops in a give year, anyway, it's not a big number. But that's not the issue either.

When "law enforcement" kills a bad guy it's because, primarily, he's put their lives or the lives of civilians in danger. How would a drone, operated by some agency in the federal government, be employed, do you suppose, to stop criminals who have shot at cops, civilians or drones? Furthermore, you're evidently quite happy to cede this authority to the current president. What makes me think you'd be enraged if his predecessor claimed the right to employ lethal drones against civilians with no oversight and no due process?

Implicitly you're also in favor of lots of drones flying lots of missions over much of the country all the time, in the off chance they might be able to whack some guy in the middle of a criminal act. Pretty expensive and inefficient, you ask me. Not to mention, again, an expansion of federal authority into areas where it doesn't belong. However, it is certainly possible to construct a hypothetical, which takes into account jurisdictional, intelligence, timing, probable success and other factors, where the use of a drone might be the best course of action. But that's not quite the same as nodding your head like a toy dog on the package shelf in the back of a car to claims POTUS has that authority already. With no limitations.

We all understand you're a mindless political child, who for instance, used the phrase "Benghazi thingy" to describe the murders of four Americans (and the probable post-mortem sexual assault of at least one of them) and haven't been man enough to simply admit your choice of language was a mistake. So nobody's surprised that you supinely agree with anything HIM-BI suggests. In some ways it's good that you periodically reinforce your richly deserved reputation. I'm guessing a lot of posters "stay on the sidelines" not because they "can't discuss" the issue, but because, as far as you're concerned, it's rather like debating a three year old. No need to "feel sorry" for them. Save that impulse for yourself.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Hmm...this is a bit droll....over a month ago, right after the tax increase was enacted, I suggested that momentum would switch to the Republicans because they could just sit back and let the sequester take place. Naturally the Condescending Cognoscenti Chorale Participants mocked me for my heresy, somehow confusing assessment with cheerleading.

While I don't follow Twitter, I hear that #SequesterThis has developed quite a following. Oblamer has compounded his tactical mistake by cancelling White House tours. Apparently he thought that this move would energize people against Republicans?? Instead it appears to have people saying "Hey, wait a minute....you mean in this massive federal budget there was no other place from which you possibly could have trimmed a few dollars?"

Some of the entries (from what I read) are quite revealing: fancy USDA conference in Oregon (including a wine tasting), $27 million to fund pottery classes in Morocco, and on and on. Some Representative even wanted to pass a bill that said that the President could not use taxpayer funds to pay for travel to a golf course until the White House tours reopen!

We all know why the sequester now is a bad idea: once people see how easily and harmlessly the first round of a reduction in the rate of growth of spending can be enacted, without any doom or gloom at all, it opens the door to a lot more, with a lot more confidence as well.

It still annoys me that any of this silliness is being portrayed as a spending "cut" when we all know that the argument is solely about what rate of growth to apply to future spending increases.

 

[unofan]

Hmm...this is a bit droll....over a month ago, right after the tax increase was enacted, I suggested that momentum would switch to the Republicans because they could just sit back and let the sequester take place. Naturally the Condescending Cognoscenti Chorale Participants mocked me for my heresy, somehow confusing assessment with cheerleading.

While I don't follow Twitter, I hear that #SequesterThis has developed quite a following. Oblamer has compounded his tactical mistake by cancelling White House tours. Apparently he thought that this move would energize people against Republicans?? Instead it appears to have people saying "Hey, wait a minute....you mean in this massive federal budget there was no other place from which you possibly could have trimmed a few dollars?"

Some of the entries (from what I read) are quite revealing: fancy USDA conference in Oregon (including a wine tasting), $27 million to fund pottery classes in Morocco, and on and on. Some Representative even wanted to pass a bill that said that the President could not use taxpayer funds to pay for travel to a golf course until the White House tours reopen!

We all know why the sequester now is a bad idea: once people see how easily and harmlessly the first round of a reduction in the rate of growth of spending can be enacted, without any doom or gloom at all, it opens the door to a lot more, with a lot more confidence as well.

It still annoys me that any of this silliness is being portrayed as a spending "cut" when we all know that the argument is solely about what rate of growth to apply to future spending increases.

The gop did see a small bounce. They're still overall about 15 points below the president on this issue. Somehow I think he'll live with that.

Also, did you not see the article showing twitter is more conservative than the country as a whole?

 

[mookie1995]

Also, did you not see the article showing twitter is more conservative than the country as a whole?

Cause the 47% can't use their welfare credit card to buy iPads and laptops... Yet