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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Also, did you not see the article showing twitter is more conservative than the country as a whole?
Click to expand...

I'm interested in seeing the source for this. In fact I just heard the opposite, but I don't remember where.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Not in favor of drones on US soil for obvious reasons. I suppose one could argue if we were invaded by a foreign country you could make a justification but otherwise I don't like it.

Regarding sequester the spinning over all this is very amusing. I never thought I'd see the day where the GOP would be happy with cutting 1.5T out of the defense budget but hey, if they're happy I'm happy. :) With all the angst going on the govt by and large is doing what it needed to maybe in spite of themselves.
 
geezer said:
I'm interested in seeing the source for this. In fact I just heard the opposite, but I don't remember where.
Click to expand...

Thought it was from fark, but I'm not seeing it there. Will check npr's archives when I get a chance, since that would likely be the only other place I would've seen/heard it.

Otherwise i'll throw out a mea culpa...and chalk it up to careless reading.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover said:
Not in favor of drones on US soil for obvious reasons. I suppose one could argue if we were invaded by a foreign country you could make a justification but otherwise I don't like it.

Regarding sequester the spinning over all this is very amusing. I never thought I'd see the day where the GOP would be happy with cutting 1.5T out of the defense budget but hey, if they're happy I'm happy. :) With all the angst going on the govt by and large is doing what it needed to maybe in spite of themselves.
Click to expand...

:eek: You've really got to be careful about taking such sensible positions. People are going to wonder if you're suddenly sane!
 
Guessing I intermixed these two.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/04/one-study-explains-why-its-tough-to-pass-liberal-laws/

http://www.pewresearch.org/2013/03/04/twitter-reaction-to-events-often-at-odds-with-overall-public-opinion/

The first says politicians view their constituants as more conservative than they really are. The latter says twitter is more negative than the public as a whole.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover said:
Not in favor of drones on US soil for obvious reasons. I suppose one could argue if we were invaded by a foreign country you could make a justification but otherwise I don't like it..
Click to expand...

what about zombies?
aliens?
terminators?
:D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
:eek: You've really got to be careful about taking such sensible positions. People are going to wonder if you're suddenly sane!
Click to expand...

He's trying to regain our trust. ;)

Plus, why shouldn't we look at drawing down the D? We went in to accomplish a mission (vengeance for 9/11), we accomplished it, so why shouldn't we draw it down?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Guessing I intermixed these two.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...-explains-why-its-tough-to-pass-liberal-laws/

http://www.pewresearch.org/2013/03/...ts-often-at-odds-with-overall-public-opinion/

The first says politicians view their constituants as more conservative than they really are. The latter says twitter is more negative than the public as a whole.
Click to expand...

One big fallacy is that Twitter IS the public. The only reason the researchers believe that Twitter is so negative is because they aren't taking into account society's seemingly natural desire to accentuate the negative. We are pessimists by nature. That's why we're so prone to bullying. Here's a question to test my hypothesis: Can you present to me three liberal policies that were put into place, but were not passed as the result of knee-jerk reactions to the actual happening or reporting of a "crisis"?
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
One big fallacy is that Twitter IS the public. The only reason the researchers believe that Twitter is so negative is because they aren't taking into account society's seemingly natural desire to accentuate the negative. We are pessimists by nature. That's why we're so prone to bullying. Here's a question to test my hypothesis: Can you present to me three liberal policies that were put into place, but were not passed as the result of knee-jerk reactions to the actual happening or reporting of a "crisis"?
Click to expand...

Define liberal and define knee-jerk. Most if not all new policies are going to be reactionary regardless of political affiliation, simply because the inertia of the status quo will always win out absent some intervening reason to change it. Almost any regulation will be a response to an event that created rthe need for said regulation. We wouldn't need a law against child labor if companies weren't using child labor to begin with. Whether such laws were a "knee-jerk" reaction is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

Likewise, Teddy Roosevelt founding the national parks system (or nixon creating the epa) was a liberal policy, but I don't know if you'd count it as such since he was a republican.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Define liberal and define knee-jerk. Most if not all new policies are going to be reactionary regardless of political affiliation, simply because the inertia of the status quo will always win out absent some intervening reason to change it. Almost any regulation will be a response to an event that created rthe need for said regulation. We wouldn't need a law against child labor if companies weren't using child labor to begin with. Whether such laws were a "knee-jerk" reaction is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

Likewise, Teddy Roosevelt founding the national parks system (or nixon creating the epa) was a liberal policy, but I don't know if you'd count it as such since he was a republican.
Click to expand...

Evidently you've never heard the fascist right's term of "RINO".
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Evidently you've never heard the fascist right's term of "RINO".
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Like "activist judge"...they'll still take credit for those things they agree with from such politicians. Look at how they worship Reagan even though he'd be a RINO by their definition of the term.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Like "activist judge"...they'll still take credit for those things they agree with from such politicians. Look at how they worship Reagan even though he'd be a RINO by their definition of the term.
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In all fairness, the left would kick JFK out of the party because of fiscally conservative beliefs. Oh wait, they actually did.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
He's trying to regain our trust. ;)

Plus, why shouldn't we look at drawing down the D? We went in to accomplish a mission (vengeance for 9/11), we accomplished it, so why shouldn't we draw it down?
Click to expand...

That's debatable. At this point, I think it's more a case of cutting our losses, and getting our guys out of there and home where they belong.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

unofan said:
Likewise, Teddy Roosevelt founding the national parks system (or nixon creating the epa) was a liberal policy, but I don't know if you'd count it as such since he was a republican.
Click to expand...


these are not liberal policies. do you just feel better claiming anything you think is good is liberal? :D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
Did we not take out those responsible for 9/11?
Click to expand...

If the mission had the sole purpose of getting Bin Laden, then it could've been accomplished years ago. Then one day, our government altered the mission requirements document and project plan to change the scope of the mission from one of revenge to one of nation building, and I would say it has been far from successful since the scope creep occurred.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Sounds like some people are confounding means and ends, which is understandable.

I always understood "conservative" to be more about how we do things: private property rights, individual liberty, personal responsibilty, generally free markets, enforcement of contracts. "liberal" was more about why we do things: no one can possibly succeed on their own, we all are interdependent and rely on each other, we have a moral responsibility to help those least fortunate: "I have drunk from wells I did not dig; and warmed myself at fires I did not build."

Not everyone seems to agree with defining these concepts in this manner. I've been a social liberal and economic / small government conservative and quite comfortable reconciling the two without contradiction. Food drives, clothing drives, volunteer efforts, Habitat for Humanity, all seem compatible with both definitions, at least to me.

I tend to see the problem with "progressives" who seem to believe that we should be ruled by an elite that is smarter than everyone else and so has the "right" by virtue of this supposedly superior intelligence to boss the rest of us around for our own good, whether we want it, or like it, or not. They seem genuinely surprised that we don't appreciate them more.
 
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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
If the mission had the sole purpose of getting Bin Laden,
Click to expand...

Big "if." I thought that there were three missions:
> remove the Taliban from power
> get bin Laden
> carry the fight to the terrorists where they live, so that we can prevent their attacks on us before they occur, and fight the battles against them overseas rather than in the US.

Now, I must agree, the "mission" was never clearly spelled out. I also think that GWB wasted a great opportunity by not calling upon us to make some shared sacrifices to do what we needed to do do accomplish these missions, and also that he should have made it much more clear what he thought the mission was, and why.

People forget that the House and Senate had broad bipartisan votes in favor of the invasion of Afghanistan, for example. People also forget that Russia and China were willing to abstain at the UN Security Council when the vote to invade Iraq took place, and it was the French who vetoed the UN mission. Then when we captured Saddams HQ we found documents that indicated about half the French government was on Saddam's payroll, taking bribes under the "oil for food" program. If France did not veto the UN mission, and it was UN forces led by the US that deposed Saddam, then so much of our conversation would be so very different today.
 
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