Sandusky/Penn State scandal

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Too bad the Vatican doesn't have a football team....

They do...they just play in South Bend, IN.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

They do...they just play in South Bend, IN.

Sure it's the most popular Catholic university, but how's their kid diddling record?

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

the cover up is always worse than the crime (generally - though in this case, i don't think so).

joepa should have taken to heart the wise words of rick pitino. "if you tell the truth the problem becomes part of your past. if you lie it becomes part of your future."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Since Paterno didn't see the worst of the worst firsthand, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in that he can only go off of what he was told. Do we know for sure the level of detail McQueary gave Paterno? Did he tell them exactly what he saw? Let's face it, what McQueary saw is at the top of the list. It all starts with what he told Paterno IMO.

The grand jury says Paterno did exactly what the law calls for. And mentions the campus police specifically as being an appropriate entity for reporting. By that time Sandusky was retired. And the victims weren't students at PSU, they were "guests" of a retired official who was, to say the least, abusing his priviieges. Paterno had no direct knowledge nor authority in this matter, except with the graduate assistant, with whom he immediately reported the matter to his boss. If Paterno had some knowledge of previous crimes, that would be an entirely different matter. But that hasn't been alleged or suggested. Except for those afflicted with omnicience and a certain braggadocio about what they would or wouldn't have done under the circumstances. Which can safely be attributed to adolescent bravado.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

http://m.deadspin.com/5857014/jerry...-the-failure-of-adult-institutions-everywhere

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

let's face it, mcqueary saw sandusky in the halls how many times over the last year, season, month, week? wonder how the small talk went? "hey, you're looking good jerry. lost some weight? last time i saw you balls deep in that young kids butt you were a little heavy in the thighs.."

Right, but what did McQueary tell Joe Paterno? That's what I was getting at.

Old Pio, I've let a lot of your posts go because I respect what you're saying, but at the same time, people aren't arguing that Paterno broke any laws. What people are saying is that he just didn't do enough in their eyes from a moral aspect. If you disagree with that, so be it.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

http://m.deadspin.com/5857014/jerry...-the-failure-of-adult-institutions-everywhere

He could be right about Paterno stepping down in the next few weeks. Regardless of this scandal, the guy's 84 and even if he's as pure as the driven snow here, he might just say "I don't need this sh*t." Maybe Paterno was "trying to have it both ways," in reporting it to the AD. But remember, there's a law here requiring the abuse to be reported, and Paterno did that, to the satisfaction of the grand jury. Doesn't mean he wasn't trying to thread the needle, but given the law, he wasn't entirely free to do as he wanted. It seems to me the AD is the person on whom responsibility falls for following up on alleged criminality in athletic facilities by a former employee.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

The grand jury says Paterno did exactly what the law calls for. And mentions the campus police specifically as being an appropriate entity for reporting. By that time Sandusky was retired. And the victims weren't students at PSU, they were "guests" of a retired official who was, to say the least, abusing his priviieges. Paterno had no direct knowledge nor authority in this matter, except with the graduate assistant, with whom he immediately reported the matter to his boss. If Paterno had some knowledge of previous crimes, that would be an entirely different matter. But that hasn't been alleged or suggested. Except for those afflicted with omnicience and a certain braggadocio about what they would or wouldn't have done under the circumstances. Which can safely be attributed to adolescent bravado.

On November 7th, Pennsylvania state police Commissioner Frank Libtard said that though Paterno may have fulfilled his legal requirement to report suspected abuse, "somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," and that, "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

 

[rufus]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

If Paterno had some knowledge of previous crimes, that would be an entirely different matter. But that hasn't been alleged or suggested.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/11/living-a-lie

There can be little doubt that Paterno has known since at least 1998 that Sandusky had a “problem” with “inappropriate behavior” toward children, i.e., he was a child molester. That’s when the campus police did a six-week investigation after a mother reported to them that her 11-year-old son had showered with Sandusky. From the grand jury report:

The mother of Victim 6 confronted Sandusky about showering with her son, the effect it had had on her son, whether Sandusky had sexual feelings when he hugged her naked son in the shower, and where Victim 6′s buttocks were when Sandusky hugged him in the shower. Sandusky said he had showered with other boys and Victim 6′s mother tried to make him promise never to shower with a boy again but he would not. She asked him if his “private parts” had touched Victim 6 when he bear-hugged him. Sandusky replied, “I don’t know . . . maybe.” At the conclusion of the second conversation, after Sandusky was told he could not see Victim 6 any more, Sandusky said, “I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won’t get it from you. I wish I were dead.”

This conversation, in which Sandusky in effect admits that there are other victims, and even refuses to say he’ll stop victimizing children, was surreptitiously observed by a PSU police detective, who was then ordered by the head of campus police to drop the matter. (The local district attorney, who for unknown reasons decided not to press charges, disappeared in 2005 and was declared legally dead in July).

To put it mildly, it’s extremely unlikely that in a little town like State College, PA, word of this investigation didn’t get back to Paterno. This supposition is bolstered by Sandusky’s otherwise strange “retirement” the following year. Sandusky was considered perhaps the top defensive coordinator in college football at the time, he was only 55, and he had long been considered Paterno’s heir apparent. The story Sandusky gave out was that he was retiring because Paterno told him he wouldn’t be succeeding him as head coach at PSU. At 72 Paterno was, in the spring of 1999, already the oldest coach in major college football, and his otherwise inexplicable decision to get rid of his right-hand man in this fashion suddenly makes perfect sense if one assumes Paterno decided it might be harmful to his already iconic legacy if it became known that his top assistant over all these years was a child molester, who had founded a charitable foundation to give himself easier access to his victims. (I’m told that, at Sandusky’s retirement banquet, the normally gregarious Paterno spoke for less than a minute at this tribute to a man who had worked at his side for 33 years).

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Right, but what did McQueary tell Joe Paterno? That's what I was getting at.

Old Pio, I've let a lot of your posts go because I respect what you're saying, but at the same time, people aren't arguing that Paterno broke any laws. What people are saying is that he just didn't do enough in their eyes from a moral aspect. If you disagree with that, so be it.

Yes, I understand. The repulsiveness of these crimes is such that people are going to leap to the conclusion that Paterno "should have done something." What we don't know for certain, yet, is what he may have done other than what was in the grand jury report. Or the reasons why he didn't do more. Advice from University counsel, for instance. Advice from his own lawyer, for instance. Orders from the AD or University president, for instance. Assurances from those officials that all that could be done was being done, for instance. All I'm arguing here, is that we ought not to pull a "Duke," with Joe Paterno, who IMO has earned the benefit of the doubt.

When the truth about what happened to the boys at Duke came out, most of our posters did a 180, even some who were the most hysterical that they were guilty of something. But not all. Even after the DA was disbarred and went to prison and the governor announced they had done nothing wrong, we had posters here who's position was: "they must have done something." I'm seeing a little of that here. So all I'm suggesting is if we want to lynch Joe Paterno, we don't have to do it today.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/11/living-a-lie

Bulletin: NASA has announced that satellite enhancement of photos taken in Dallas on 11/22/63 reveals Joe Paterno was on the grassy knoll. He was aiming at Sandusky, but missed and hit the president.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

The Duke lacrosse case was centered against false allegations. I just find it highly unlikely that the allegations against Sandusky aren't true.

 

[rufus]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Bulletin: NASA has announced that satellite enhancement of photos taken in Dallas on 11/22/63 reveals Joe Paterno was on the grassy knoll. He was aiming at Sandusky, but missed and hit the president.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

So you're saying you don't believe Paterno ever heard anything about the 1998 incidents involving his defensive coordinator and friend? Not a single word? Just completely oblivious about the whole thing.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

The Duke lacrosse case was centered against false allegations. I just find it highly unlikely that the allegations against Sandusky aren't true.

In part on false allegations. DA's get false allegations every day. Most of them don't proceed to indictment and trial knowing they're false. Most DA's aren't willing to put three young guys they know to be innocent in prison for twenty years each to curry favor with minorities and enhance their chance at election. And the activities of the "pot bangers," and the rest of the reactionaries on that camppus (or the Newsweek cover) who were only to happy to throw those guys under the bus argues against this simply being a matter of "false allegations." It went way beyond that, and I think you must know it. So whether the allegations against Sandusky are true or not (I'm inclined to thing they are) is not the same as the allegations being made against Paterno. And the suggestions of his lack of involvment or followup from those who just "know" what he did was insufficient.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

So you're saying you don't believe Paterno ever heard anything about the 1998 incidents involving his defensive coordinator and friend? Not a single word? Just completely oblivious about the whole thing.

Remember how many friends of Graham James were shocked at what he did, because they had no idea?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

So you're saying you don't believe Paterno ever heard anything about the 1998 incidents involving his defensive coordinator and friend? Not a single word? Just completely oblivious about the whole thing.

I don't know. If he did, we'll learn about it eventually. Maybe the PSU cops told coach "there's no there, there." The DA wouldn't prosecute, probably because he couldn't win.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Remember how many friends of Graham James were shocked at what he did, because they had no idea?

If these people glowed in the dark, it would be much easier to root them out.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Here's the grand jury report

You probably don't (really don't) want to read it.

JFC. I'm probably late to the part with the following post but this is how I see it:

The graduate student, JoePa, and everyone up the chain of command should be thrown in jail. If I saw this, I would be on the phone with the police before I even left the building.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

JFC. I'm probably late to the part with the following post but this is how I see it:

The graduate student, JoePa, and everyone up the chain of command should be thrown in jail. If I saw this, I would be on the phone with the police before I even left the building.

Cue Old Pio...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. It doesn't explain the fact that neither the grad student or JoePa went straight to the police. I'd have been on the phone as I ran out of the locker room. Any decent human being would have done the same. And if that went nowhere, I'd have called the FBI, the local investigative journalists, EVERYONE