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Sandusky/Penn State scandal

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Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

9th victim has come forward. More likely than not this will be the beginning of a parade of victims.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...im-comes-forward-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-case

Joe Pa will spend the rest of his life in law offices, depositions & courthouses.

As a state university, Penn State is going to be is difficult position settling claims and litigating this matter. You'd have to think the Pennsylvania State legislature is going to have to get involved and set up a procedure to compensate victims.
 
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Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
The name of his book is very unfortunate.

Also read that Sandusky's son is the top assistant to the Cleveland Browns GM. He's taken a leave of absence. Has to be horrific for the family to hear these things. You have to think its a possibility his own kids had no idea.
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Or maybe his kids know all too well...
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

New York Times is reporting that Penn State has begin the process of planning Joe Pa's exit. Could be within days...
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

My opinion on JoePa is that of someone who was neutral coming into this... I respected what he has done, but at the same time, made more than a few references to AARP, senility, and the like... He needed to step down (or be nudged in the right direction by PSU decision makers), but this is not the way most wanted to see him go out...

Legally he did what was required... On the moral side of things however, I'm still on the fence... More info is needed on what he really did know before I make that judgement... We'll just have to see I guess...
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

dxmnkd316 said:
JFC. I'm probably late to the part with the following post but this is how I see it:

The graduate student, JoePa, and everyone up the chain of command should be thrown in jail. If I saw this, I would be on the phone with the police before I even left the building.
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What would you throw them in jail for? They didn't break any laws - they satisfied all the legal requirements for what they were supposed to do in that case.

As for if they did everything that they were morally obligated to do, I think that the fact that everything didn't end right then and there means that these people didn't meet those obligations and they are justifiably being roasted over the coals of public opinion. At the end of the day they have to live with what they did and didn't do to meet their moral obligations to society.

If the PSU AD and VP who didn't even do their legal, let alone moral, obligations had followed through no one would be questioning if Paterno and the graduate assistant had done enough.

That said, I think that there are still large questions about what Paterno knew and when he knew it and what, if any, roll he may have played in the cover-up to protect the reputation of the program and himself.

From my perspective the graduate assistant was in a no win situation: either he does nothing and has to live with that or the rest of his life or he raises the alarm on what he saw and given the response of the PSU administration I can't believe that they would have supported him so his career as a coach would have been over. Paterno is the one with the reputation and the power to have made sure that action was taken on this and I think that it is fair to ask why he did not make sure that sufficient and appropriate action was taken.
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Here- change the offense- what would they have done if Sandusky was stabbing someone in the shower, who didn't die?

What if Sandusky was physically assulting the kid- throwing punches or wielding knives to a 10 year old?

What if he was just beating a janitor senseless?

Or what would happen if nobody reported recruiting violations- would Paterno still have a job at the end of a the week?


Now re-examine the CRIME that took place, and was witnessed. Should these guys who didn't follow up be fired or not? Sure, they met the "letter" of the law. Stunning that the laws are like that- you don't actually have to report a CHILD being ASSULTED to the police.
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Almington said:
What would you throw them in jail for? They didn't break any laws - they satisfied all the legal requirements for what they were supposed to do in that case.

As for if they did everything that they were morally obligated to do, I think that the fact that everything didn't end right then and there means that these people didn't meet those obligations and they are justifiably being roasted over the coals of public opinion.
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I think this is about where I come down, too. Of course, if anybody impeded a criminal investigation by withholding information, then they really didn't meet their legal obligations. The Grand Jury didn't name Paterno in the indictment (right?), so I guess that means they didn't find him to be legally at fault, based on the info currently available.
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

RaceBoarder said:
My opinion on JoePa is that of someone who was neutral coming into this... I respected what he has done, but at the same time, made more than a few references to AARP, senility, and the like... He needed to step down (or be nudged in the right direction by PSU decision makers), but this is not the way most wanted to see him go out...

Legally he did what was required... On the moral side of things however, I'm still on the fence... More info is needed on what he really did know before I make that judgement... We'll just have to see I guess...
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Agreed.
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

That was written before this info came out:
In April 2009 Bellefonte police revealed that before his disappearance, Gricar used his home computer to perform internet searches on topics such as "how to wreck a hard drive", "how to fry a hard drive", and "water damage to a notebook computer".
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He then removed his computer hard drive and dumped it into the river.
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Kepler said:
I think this is about where I come down, too. Of course, if anybody impeded a criminal investigation by withholding information, then they really didn't meet their legal obligations. The Grand Jury didn't name Paterno in the indictment (right?), so I guess that means they didn't find him to be legally at fault, based on the info currently available.
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The NYT is reporting the Board of Trustees is moving on this with an eye toward easing Joe out the back door. From their perspective, a perfectly logical thing to do. What's the first rule of First Aid? Stop the bleeding. Their decision will be easier because the man is 84. He's head coach in name only these days. Generally not even on the sidelines. With or without the scandal, his tenure was going to end soon.

It makes me uneasy when uninformed (meaning they don't know all or even most of the facts) people decide with a precision that would make an Iranian physicist blush , exactly what a guy's "moral" obligations are. Many (most?) of the people baying for Paterno's head are the type who, under different circumstances, would be participaing in or supportive of candle light vigils for cop killers. Yet here they're in a moral "outrage" about what happened and they want somebody to pay. I assume most of our posters recall the moral panic that infested this country in the 80's and 90's, leading to show trials of day care workers on various charges of child sexual abuse. We just KNEW something had happened in those day cares. Profoundly ignorant people parroted the line: "Believe the children" or "children don't lie. All of the cases proved to be without merit. Many lives were damaged or destroyed. Yet here we are once again, with a very prominent man, perhaps tangentially involved to an unknown extent, and many of us just want to skip over that part about "innocent until proven guilty," and get right to the hanging. It wasn't pretty in the day care cases. And it's not pretty now.

So the Board of Trustees of the university he's served for 60 years appears to be caving in to the mob and preparing to end Paterno's tenure to solve a major PR problem. I understand the thinking. But it still stinks. And the lynch mob looks like the big winner here. Just like they were in the day care cases and the Duke "rape" case. If the mob turns out to have been as wrong here as it was in those two caes, who will apologize to Joe Paterno? In the words of Ray Donovan: "where do I go to get my reputation back?"
 
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Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Old Pio said:
The NYT is reporting the Board of Trustees is moving on this with an eye toward easing Joe out the back door. From their perspective, a perfectly logical thing to do. What's the first rule of First Aid? Stop the bleeding. Their decision will be easier because the man is 84. He's really only the head coach in name only these days. Generally not even on the sidelines. With or without the scandal, his tenure was going to end soon.

It makes me uneasy when uninformed (meaning they don't know all or even most of the facts) people decide with a precision that would make an Iranian physicist blush , exactly what a guy's "moral" obligations are. Many (most?) of the people baying for Paterno's head are the type who, under different circumstances, would be participaing in or supportive of candle light vigils for cop killers. Yet here they're in a moral "outrage" about what happened and they want somebody to pay. I assume most of our posters recall the moral panic that infested this country in the 80's and 90's, leading to show trials of day care workers on various charges of child sexual abuse. All proved to be without merit. Many lives were damaged or destroyed. Yet here we are once again, with a very prominent man, perhaps tangentially involved to an unknown extent, and many of us just want to skip over that part about "innocent until proven guilty," and get right to the hanging. It wasn't pretty in the day care cases. And it's not pretty now.

So the Board of Trustees of the university he's served for 60 years appears to be caving in to the mob and preparing to end Paterno's tenure to solve a major PR problem. I understand the thinking. But it still stinks. And the lynch mob looks like the big winner here. Just like they were in the day care cases and the Duke "rape" case. If the mob turns out to have been as wrong here as it was in those two caes, who will apologize to Joe Paterno? In the words of Ray Donovan: "where do I go to get my reputation back?"
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Given that Paterno knew that something inappropriate had happened and that he didn't ensure that it was properly investigated and reported to law enforcement (both being facts that are not in question), I don't think that moral outrage is unjustified. What, if any, punishment should be levied on Paterno is a fair question to ask.

Is PSU taking these steps to punish Paterno, or is it the inevitable result of needing to change the culture within the athletic department that would allow a report of such an incident to not be reported to law enforcement? Is Paterno being forced out as punishment for his action or is that unavoidable collateral damage from having top administrators being arrested for perjury and obstruction of justice?
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Almington said:
Given that Paterno knew that something inappropriate had happened and that he didn't ensure that it was properly investigated and reported to law enforcement (both being facts that are not in question), I don't think that moral outrage is unjustified. What, if any, punishment should be levied on Paterno is a fair question to ask.

Is PSU taking these steps to punish Paterno, or is it the inevitable result of needing to change the culture within the athletic department that would allow a report of such an incident to not be reported to law enforcement? Is Paterno being forced out as punishment for his action or is that unavoidable collateral damage from having top administrators being arrested for perjury and obstruction of justice?
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Somewhere an Iranian physicist is blushing. Evidently it doesn't trouble you at all that we've not heard Paterno's side of the story. You just "know" Paterno did something wrong here (with the confidence of Kentucky snake handlers) and you've got your fingers in your ears, shouting "I can't HEAR you."
 
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Old Pio said:
Somewhere an Iranian physicist is blushing. Evidently it doesn't trouble you at all that we've not heard Paterno's side of the story.
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We have heard Paterno's side of the story, he testified before the grand jury.

Which part of his grand jury testimony are you questioning? That the GA told him something inappropriate happened between Sandusky and a child in the locker room. That Paterno didn't ensure that law enforcement was contacted after reporting this to the AD. Those two facts, which are not in question, justify the moral outrage directed at Paterno.
 
Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Almington said:
We have heard Paterno's side of the story, he testified before the grand jury.

Which part of his grand jury testimony are you questioning? That the GA told him something inappropriate happened between Sandusky and a child in the locker room. That Paterno didn't ensure that law enforcement was contacted after reporting this to the AD. Those two facts, which are not in question, justify the moral outrage directed at Paterno.
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You've convinced me. Get the rope. Where have you heard his side of the story? In the synopsis contained in the grand jury report? That's not his side of the story. But it evidently meets your nearly non existent standard for fair play and giving the guy a chance to explain himself. On top of which you're evidently an expert on Pennsylvania law and the internal procedures of PSU. So much knowledge can't be denied. How do you know he didn't "follow up" with the police? One of the officials notified supervised the PSU police. And that agency was specifically mentioned in the grand jury report as one to which a report could be made. How do you KNOW he didn't do more than we're so far aware of? The answer is, you don't.

Lynch mobs are never pretty. What Paterno needs is Atticus Finch to point out that sometimes mobs get it wrong.
 
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Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

NCAA watcher said:
That was written before this info came out:


He then removed his computer hard drive and dumped it into the river.
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The subsequent information certainly does put a different spin on things. Nonetheless, I do think that there's still an important point there: Gricar was involved in big things that had nothing to do with Penn State, and some of them were a lot bigger in absolute (though not personal) terms than this scandal.

I figured I should provide some of the additional information because I had previously posted the link of Gricar not prosecuting in the late 90's.
 
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