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Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

And the coroner also ruled that the police were what caused his death when he ruled it a homicide.

And they call it a chokehold for a reason lmfao.
 
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I'm not disputing the homicide ruling. That's what they determined. He wouldn't have had the heart attack had he not gotten into a scuffle with the cops, ergo his scuffle with the cops led to his death by heart attack.

I'm saying he wasn't choked, which is also what they determined. Call something a chokehold all you want, if he wasn't choked, then it's not really a chokehold, now is it?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

It says the cause of death wasn't strangulation that doesn't mean he was never choked during that period of time.

On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was “homicide,” specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo’s chokehold and “the compression of [Garner’s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer.
Click to expand...

So back to that part about science.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

"Neck compressions" and "chest compressions" =/= choking. A sleeper hold that cuts off blood flow through the carotid artery is a neck compression, but the airway is never touched, much less compromised.

You were saying?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

The point is the officers' actions had far more to do with his death than the minor crime he committed but feel free to argue about use of the term "choke" when these semantics still don't exonerate the officers involved.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

You're the one claiming he was choked to death. You made a claim, got challenged on it, and are trying to change the subject without admitting you were wrong. And for the record, I agree that what he was doing *shouldn't* be a crime, but it is, and the officers were performing their duties. Garner resisted, got taken down, and died as a result from a massive heart attack. If the officers had let him go, and he died of a heart attack as he was running, would the officers still be at fault? To put it another way, what should the officers have done differently in your opinion?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

What was the bigger factor in his death the cigarette selling or the chokehold (that didn't technically restrict his airway)?

The entire point of my initial argument was that the officers actions had more to do with his death than anything he did. Not some semantic argument you started to deflect.
 
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

trixR4kids said:
What was the bigger factor in his death the cigarette selling or the chokehold (that didn't technically restrict his airway)?
Click to expand...
I don't believe I ever made the claim that his selling cigarettes directly caused his death. Would you like to take a shot at answering the question I just asked?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Not used a chokehold and kneeled on his chest, both of which killed him.

Nobody should dispute that Pantaleo committed homicide—that fact was determined Aug. 1.
Click to expand...

Nobody except armadillo.
 
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

OK, so that's a "no" on answering the question, and I believe I said up above that the M.E. concluded that Garner's death was a homicide, and that I didn't dispute that.

In fact, here it is, entered as evidence:
I'm not disputing the homicide ruling. That's what they determined. He wouldn't have had the heart attack had he not gotten into a scuffle with the cops, ergo his scuffle with the cops led to his death by heart attack.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I just answered what I would do differently, is there another question? I don't think the officers would be culpable if he just died while running but I don't really see why that question is important.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

When asked what you believe the cops should have done differently in this situation, "not that" isn't a great answer. I'm looking for specifics here. You're faced with a 350 pound dude who is resisting you. What do you do?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

There are plenty of departments including NYPD which outlaw chokeholds. Guessing they find other ways to handle similar situations.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Jimjamesak said:
But you're doing that, indirectly, with your first sentence.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. There were actions that should have been taken, but how the officer handled it was incorrect (at least that quickly). Hypothetical here: IF the kid ignored warnings to drop the toy gun, and a reasonable time had passed, and the toy gun was still in his hand, I would believe that the officer would be justified in neutralizing the threat as he saw fit.

HOWEVER, this officer ignored all that and got trigger-happy after a couple seconds (IIRC that was the time passage, please correct me if I'm wrong). That is NOT how the procedure should go.

I feel this way because a gun doesn't know age. Kid or not, he potentially had a lethal weapon (by appearance) in his hands.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p>Conservative hypocrisy is rampant at the moment.
<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NYPD?src=hash">#NYPD</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NYPDLivesMatter?src=hash">#NYPDLivesMatter</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NYPDShooting?src=hash">#NYPDShooting</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Seattle?src=hash">#Seattle</a> <a href="http://t.co/DFIXEHOeIv">pic.twitter.com/DFIXEHOeIv</a></p>— Bipartisan Report (@Bipartisanism) <a href="https://twitter.com/Bipartisanism/status/546854682862178306">December 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

If you're talking about those ultra-right-wing nutjobs in the south...I want no part of them.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

My God, how much better would our discourse be in this country if people didn't default to "my opponent is a butthole?"
 
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