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Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
- Thread starter Handyman
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The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Yes, I'm sick of those racists out there rioting and looting.
(That should get this party started.
)
Yes, I'm sick of those racists out there rioting and looting.
(That should get this party started.
)
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Snark aside, do you think there's any positive action we could take in the wake of this? More police cams? Independent reviews when lethal force is used? Greater transparency?
Yes, I'm sick of those racists out there rioting and looting.
(That should get this party started.
Snark aside, do you think there's any positive action we could take in the wake of this? More police cams? Independent reviews when lethal force is used? Greater transparency?
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
How about a system where a prosecutor gathers evidence and presents it to a grand jury to decide if criminal charges are warran ...
Never mind.
How about a system where a prosecutor gathers evidence and presents it to a grand jury to decide if criminal charges are warran ...
Never mind.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Again, snark aside, are you saying there's nothing wrong and there are no process improvements required at all?
Again, snark aside, are you saying there's nothing wrong and there are no process improvements required at all?
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Can they understand hooliganism outside the context of a soccer pitch?
Can they understand hooliganism outside the context of a soccer pitch?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
They do seem to be having some trouble that there's no Irish to blame.
They do seem to be having some trouble that there's no Irish to blame.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Process improvements?
Well, Ferguson PD needs to get rid of the Sig Sauer P229s. Terrible sidearm in my opinion (too heavy and long of a trigger).
Dash camera would've been useless as most of the action seemed to happen out of the field of view of the front of the car.
A body camera might have made a difference ... like in Salt Lake City. Oh, you've never heard of that one ...
Maybe the shop owner that got robbed by the gentle giant should have better security. (Blame victim.)
Process improvements?
Well, Ferguson PD needs to get rid of the Sig Sauer P229s. Terrible sidearm in my opinion (too heavy and long of a trigger).
Dash camera would've been useless as most of the action seemed to happen out of the field of view of the front of the car.
A body camera might have made a difference ... like in Salt Lake City. Oh, you've never heard of that one ...
Maybe the shop owner that got robbed by the gentle giant should have better security. (Blame victim.)
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
I hadn't heard of that one, and that's my point exactly. A significant percentage of the white Utah community does not feel like the cops are more of a threat than a help to them. So what was the difference in the Ferguson case, if not race? Poverty? Maybe, but it sounds like black people are saying they feel under threat from police forces even when they're not poor.
Let me put it another way: let's say we both personally feel like there are no racial issues left in America. What do we do when a really large number of black people hear that and say, "you have no idea"? Ignore them? Explain patiently to them that we really know better about their situation than they do?
I hadn't heard of that one, and that's my point exactly. A significant percentage of the white Utah community does not feel like the cops are more of a threat than a help to them. So what was the difference in the Ferguson case, if not race? Poverty? Maybe, but it sounds like black people are saying they feel under threat from police forces even when they're not poor.
Let me put it another way: let's say we both personally feel like there are no racial issues left in America. What do we do when a really large number of black people hear that and say, "you have no idea"? Ignore them? Explain patiently to them that we really know better about their situation than they do?
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
"Fixing" race in America is fallacy writ as large as "fixing" the Middle East.
It cannot and will not be done because too many folks are benefiting from it.
The "struggle of the _____" has become cottage industry worldwide.
"Fixing" race in America is fallacy writ as large as "fixing" the Middle East.
It cannot and will not be done because too many folks are benefiting from it.
The "struggle of the _____" has become cottage industry worldwide.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
I don't agree. There's already been a lot of progress, both institutionally (no more slavery, no more legally-enforced segregation, far less onerous Jim Crow) and socially (people may be racist today, but they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less racist than they used to be). There's also plenty of work still to do, though it's not clear to me that the latter is racial -- I think it just may point to lack of social mobility.
Also: every social movement faces people who make money off the status quo. That doesn't discredit the movement (in fact, quite the opposite), and it doesn't seem to ever stop it.
I can think of at least one thing that ought to come of this: people in minority communities should go out and vote. If they don't feel their representatives represent them, change them.
I don't agree. There's already been a lot of progress, both institutionally (no more slavery, no more legally-enforced segregation, far less onerous Jim Crow) and socially (people may be racist today, but they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less racist than they used to be). There's also plenty of work still to do, though it's not clear to me that the latter is racial -- I think it just may point to lack of social mobility.
Also: every social movement faces people who make money off the status quo. That doesn't discredit the movement (in fact, quite the opposite), and it doesn't seem to ever stop it.
I can think of at least one thing that ought to come of this: people in minority communities should go out and vote. If they don't feel their representatives represent them, change them.
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unofan
Well-known member
That only works if the prosecutor treats charges against cops the same way they treat charges against everyone else.
For non cops, they only present the information that supports the indictment. They sure as hell don't present pro defendent information.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
So the problem is the prosecutors, not the cops, or the criminals.
So the problem is the prosecutors, not the cops, or the criminals.
unofan
Well-known member
It's all three to varying degrees.
Body cams for cops do wonders though. They decrease both use of force and citizen complaints by about 80% each.*
* presuming they work. It's amazing how some officers and departments seem to have far more tech problems than others.
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trixR4kids
Well-known member
How about not presenting a defense for the accused and conducting it like every other grand jury in which an officer isn't involved.
Looks like I was beat.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Because prosecutors and cops are lawful entities, they have to follow law and correct process. The existence of criminality doesn't absolve them of that responsibility.
Now just because the community is up in arms doesn't necessarily mean the prosecutor and/or cops are doing anything wrong (other than maybe community outreach), but unless you're saying the entire community is criminal they have to be listened to, since after all it's for their protection that the prosecutor and cops exist at all.
Because prosecutors and cops are lawful entities, they have to follow law and correct process. The existence of criminality doesn't absolve them of that responsibility.
Now just because the community is up in arms doesn't necessarily mean the prosecutor and/or cops are doing anything wrong (other than maybe community outreach), but unless you're saying the entire community is criminal they have to be listened to, since after all it's for their protection that the prosecutor and cops exist at all.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
how about lethal force used upon/against rioters & looters?
how about lethal force used upon/against rioters & looters?
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
And there's the problem in three simple sentences.
I can speak from personal experience having served on the Toronto PD from 1973 until 1994. In that 21 years, mistrust between minorities and me and my fellow officers was a constant, despite the best efforts of most of us on the street level to do our best to treat the minority communities with the respect they deserved. In the 21 years since I've been out of law enforcement the divide has grown exponentially.
Are there bad cops out there? Of course there are, just as there are bad apples in any profession. But are they all a bunch of racist, jack-booted thugs? That would be like me saying that all minorities are....{insert appropriate adjective here}...based on the actions of a small number of radical, anarchist $hat disturbers.
Despite the best efforts of the race-baiters and the media, I did and still believe that the vast majority of the men and women in uniform live by the adage "treat others as you would want to be treated, until they give you a reason to do otherwise."
And there's the problem in three simple sentences.
I can speak from personal experience having served on the Toronto PD from 1973 until 1994. In that 21 years, mistrust between minorities and me and my fellow officers was a constant, despite the best efforts of most of us on the street level to do our best to treat the minority communities with the respect they deserved. In the 21 years since I've been out of law enforcement the divide has grown exponentially.
Are there bad cops out there? Of course there are, just as there are bad apples in any profession. But are they all a bunch of racist, jack-booted thugs? That would be like me saying that all minorities are....{insert appropriate adjective here}...based on the actions of a small number of radical, anarchist $hat disturbers.
Despite the best efforts of the race-baiters and the media, I did and still believe that the vast majority of the men and women in uniform live by the adage "treat others as you would want to be treated, until they give you a reason to do otherwise."
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