Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

[solovsfett]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

You ask way too many questions. You have to understand, there are jihadists who would put explosives in their underwear the moment they see the photos of a dead OBL. Merely knowing he's dead, without the photos, and they're all warm and fuzzy and (like Norman Bates) wouldn't harm a fly. Bosh. Besides, haven't we been told for decades that people who hide behind "national security" are scoundrels?

part of what I don't get I guess. Will it add fuel to the fire? I doubt it. it's not like there are AC or taliban on the fence about us and the photo would be the last straw.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Pio... I apologized for being snide, and tried to let it drop; but it looks like your feeling are still hurting, so let me try to explain why I went to such extremes in "attacking" you.
Now normally, I'm your best friend on this forum. I appreciate your stoutly conservative views, and agree with them, and especially appreciate your willingness to stick up for our servicemen in every instance. I'm even a fan of the Denver Pioneers as the traditionally excellent anti-Gophers. But when you launched into that tirade about your right to see the pics, including " Fook 'em. Fook 'em 'till they bleed", and "I don't care if the SEALs killed OBL by hacking him to pieces or by inserting a grenade in his rectum (actually, I rather like that one)" I admit I was turned off to the point of intentionally taking that dig at you.
Once again, I apologize. The reason I did it is because I felt you were perpetuating stereotypes of us conservatives as stupid violence-prone rednecks, and thought my subtle dig might be more effective than saying "Old Pio, could you tone it down?" Obviously I was wrong. But take note that we actually agree on the point of releasing the photos.
Thanks, though, for accusing me of saying anything to defend Obama at all costs. I'm hoping it'll give me some street cred with the liberals around here.

Thanks, but no apology is necessary. Just taking advantage of my new "reputation," for comedic value. I have strong opinions and I state them in a way calculated to get the messaage across. Frankly, I don't care what people who kill Americans or who applaud the killing of Americans think. I want those killers dead as I want all enemies of America dead. No nuance, no trying to understand where they're coming from, no explanations of how they came to hate us (because it's always our fault). I'll take your suggestion to "tone it down" under advisement, but part of how I roll is to give the libs around here as much heartburn as possible. And that goes double for Islamic terrorists who gloat by doing home movies of beheadings. So I appreciate your suport in the past and understand what you were trying to say. And any subsequent references to me being crazy, as I say, were just meant to be funny, not a shot. Okay?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

part of what I don't get I guess. Will it add fuel to the fire? I doubt it. it's not like there are AC or taliban on the fence about us and the photo would be the last straw.

That's my point. And if you follow BHO's logic all the way to the end, we would have not killed OBL because "it might inflame some of his supporters."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

In fact, I think it's a political blunder for Obama to refuse outright at this point. The pressure is only gonna grow, and they'll get out eventually with or without his consent, and it'll look out of his control at that point.

If you're cynical, you might conclude BHO wants this episode to continue being about him so he can continue to prance around like William the Conquerer. "I told Paneta," "I determined," "I gave the order," etc. etc. I gave him full unabashed credit for ordering the hit. And I gave him the benefit of the doubt on the pseudo Islamic burial at sea: can't hurt, might help. But IMO, he's gone too far here. If he were president when we shot down Yamamoto's plane would he have withheld the news or the film out of fear it would "inflame the Japanese?" The American people needed to know the guy who engineered Pearl Harbor was dead and to see whatever proof was available. Similarly, the American people need to know the man who engineered 9/11 is dead, and here's the picture. I'm prepared for the chips to fall where they may on the "arab street," which in my lifetime has always been on the verge of reacting badly to something America has done.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

All this talk about the photo, what about the video? Surely we can release at least a part of that? Why else would we videotape it?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

All this talk about the photo, what about the video? Surely we can release at least a part of that? Why else would we videotape it?

I'd surely like to see his corpse "slipped into the sea."

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

"Senators: they're just like us!"

Three Republican senators who claimed to have seen images of Osama bin Laden after he was killed may have been duped.

Republican Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts said Wednesday that he had been fooled by a fake photograph ostensibly showing an image of bin Laden post-mortem.

"I have seen the pictures. I've received the briefings. I've spoken to the operational leaders and I can tell you for a fact that he is dead," Brown said in an interview with WBZ Wednesday morning.

He repeated that point to other news outlets as part of his argument that the images should not be released.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

If this is fake.... why hasn't Osama popped up with a video over how pathetic the US is?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

In other news...

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KhCdlygmSJ4?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KhCdlygmSJ4?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Huh.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

heh, not to make light of it but maybe we shoulda sent thunderlips over to find ubl, omar, zawahri et al

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUhGoY3h0fY&feature=player_detailpage

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Obama supporter Eugene Robinson in the WaPo:

"The reason to display the photos is to show bin Laden for what he really was: not a holy warrior, not a holy anything, but a deluded mass murderer who met the end he so richly deserved."

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

http://gawker.com/#!5798799/jon-stewart-release-the-bin-laden-death-photos

Another interesting perspective.

I don't think we would need to show the picture to appease the conspiracy theorists who claim this is a cover-up to distract America (you'll never convince the crazies).

I don't think we should avoid showing the picture so as not to upset militant Islamic extremists (they hate us already).

I can understand the desire not to release it on grounds of it being graphic (which is sort of BS, given what we expose ourselves to for entertainment), but also because we might find it savage (despite our own wild celebration over his death... which, although I'm not apologizing for it and think it's kind of unfair, does draw some comparisons to the way some people over there celebrated 9/11).

Ultimately, I'd like to have the pictures available (doesn't have to be on the Nightly News... just available somewhere) simply because it would be a way of reporting the truth.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

http://gawker.com/#!5798799/jon-stewart-release-the-bin-laden-death-photos

Another interesting perspective.

I don't think we would need to show the picture to appease the conspiracy theorists who claim this is a cover-up to distract America (you'll never convince the crazies).

I don't think we should avoid showing the picture so as not to upset militant Islamic extremists (they hate us already).

I can understand the desire not to release it on grounds of it being graphic (which is sort of BS, given what we expose ourselves to for entertainment), but also because we might find it savage (despite our own wild celebration over his death... which, although I'm not apologizing for it and think it's kind of unfair, does draw some comparisons to the way some people over there celebrated 9/11).

Ultimately, I'd like to have the pictures available (doesn't have to be on the Nightly News... just available somewhere) simply because it would be a way of reporting the truth.

I mentioned on GPL, these photos will be "leaked from an unknown source" and that the gub'ment will grudgingly acknowledge their validity. Winkwinksaynomore.

This is America. We know how to work the system.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Not to parrot the al-Qaeda line here, but do you think maybe Osama wanted to go out? I mean, he has to hear the helicopter crashing, and then the gunshots downstairs, but when the soldiers make their way upstairs, he doesn't have a gun in his hands?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Not to parrot the al-Qaeda line here, but do you think maybe Osama wanted to go out? I mean, he has to hear the helicopter crashing, and then the gunshots downstairs, but when the soldiers make their way upstairs, he doesn't have a gun in his hands?

Maybe complacency drove him to not have a gun. Maybe arrogance dictated it (I am Osama! And I have good soldiers!)? Maybe when he heard the noises, he knew there was no escape at that point. It's a great question you pose. And we'll never know.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Maybe complacency drove him to not have a gun. Maybe arrogance dictated it (I am Osama! And I have good soldiers!)? Maybe when he heard the noises, he knew there was no escape at that point. It's a great question you pose. And we'll never know.

By the time he heard the pitter patter of little feet on his roof, the jig was up, he was toast. He was a child of wealth who lived very high on the hog by local standards. Remember in Afghanistan he used the locals as servants, doing his cooking and cleaning. Absent proof, he doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubt.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Its only a gaffe if you are a grievance artist like yourself.

Wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo#Biography



Sounds like a comparison to OBL may actually be apt.... but i guess he's a hero to an oppressed minority... hey, just like Osama bin Laden... or so muslims would have you believe.

are you f-ing serious? There is no comparision. No wonder you can't get laid -- you are an ***** hole. What would you have done? Throw up your hands and say "go ahead, put me on a reservation"

That being said, I don't think the code name is a big deal -- sure I can see how a Native American might be offended but you can't do anything without ****ing someone off these days

 

[Biddco]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

You know what I find very ironic? The fact that his compound was allegedly stock piled with Coke, Pepsi and Nestle products. Those are the exact kind of companies that he would complain were destroying Islam! Hypocrite.

 

[pirate]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

my conspiracy theory is that he was already dead but Al Q was not telling anyone and still using him as a recruiting tool for their side and boogeyman for our side. We went in, 'killed' him, took his body and are daring Al Q to say otherwise...I'm not saying that is what I believe, just my conspiracy theory...I continue to look for a grassy knoll in that town, no luck so far

 

[Kepler]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

my conspiracy theory is that he was already dead but Al Q was not telling anyone and still using him as a recruiting tool for their side and boogeyman for our side. We went in, 'killed' him, took his body and are daring Al Q to say otherwise...I'm not saying that is what I believe, just my conspiracy theory...I continue to look for a grassy knoll in that town, no luck so far

I'm up for a good conspiracy theory, but if Islamic law dictates a corpse has to be buried quickly that rules this out. These guys are sticklers about the fundmantals of their faith (as they see them).

It may have been an Indiana Jones Moment: I don't have time for the sword fight, just shoot him.

It did take about three days until everybody is back on script: there's lots of concern trolling going on about every moment of the handling of this after the instant the bullets left the chamber, with the defenders saying every decision shows the president's tenacity and depth of thought and the haters picking up where they left off. That's what always happens but it's particularly funny in this case, where there are so many variable and such scant information that it's OBVIOUS even the so-called "experts" each side employs to shill for them are just pasting events into their side's Mad Libs. Nobody has any idea how this is going to play out.

In the interim, it wouldn't be the worst thing to give Obama and Bush a shit-ton of credit for expending the political will to keep everything needed by the real heroes flowing: funding, precedence, autonomy, and continuity of effort despite 110 months of failures. The pressure on the executive to wind down the effort and put resources elsewhere must have been astounding, but they kept their eyes on the prize.

I'm not sure why Bush declined to appear at Ground Zero alongside Obama today. I don't think it was political: Clinton did as well. It might have been a presidential nod to the incumbent of the office: this is a moment for singular leadership. In any case, I kinda wish both Obama and Dubya were there together, showing the unity of all Americans in what is still after all an ongoing battle. The symbolism would have been good for the country and maybe helped heal some of the rips in the commonweal cloth.