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Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead


fox40_news_obama_bin_laden_dead.jpg
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

We have a pretty wide range of opinion around here. Yet we all seem to approve of this astonishingly successful mission. We have some differences of opinion about the photos. I analogize them to Armed Forces day: if you want to drop by the local base to see the toys, fine. If you don't, don't. And I'm really pleased that we haven't heard any whining about "bringing him to justice." I realize it's de rigeur to mouth the platitudes (can't you just see the SEALs reading from little laminated Miranda cards? "You have a right to remain silent. . .") but this was a kill mission. We executed him. Let the Europeans, the UN creeps and the law school dweebs debate the legality of what we did. Their opinions amount to a fart in a whirlwind. Plus, whatever problems we were going to have trying KSM would pale in comparison to the problems we'd have trying OBL. Let's just take one. Anybody remember Lynne Stewart? She's the communist cow lawyer for the "blind Sheikh" (who masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center and had much bigger plans for down the road). And she's in prison? Why? Because she illegally helped him distribute messages to his followers. Now if a communist lawyer was willing to put her freedom on the line to help a minnow like the "blind Sheikh," imagine how many of them would be willing to do the same for el numero uno, the big jihadist whale. People might die. Lots of 'em. As I say, that's just one of the numerous problems with bringing OBL "to justice" in the way the Georgetown lawyers mean.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

We have a pretty wide range of opinion around here. Yet we all seem to approve of this astonishingly successful mission...

That's what kind of puzzles me about all the statements and walkbacks coming from the Whitehouse about how bin Laden met his demise. They're understandable I suppose, but I highly doubt 90% of Americans would have a problem with the raid no matter how it went down, whether Osama was armed or not.

Same thing with Hillary today coming out and saying that in the pictures that have been released she's covering her mouth due to allergies, not to anticpation or tension. I mean, would that many people really have cared either way?
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

That's what kind of puzzles me about all the statements and walkbacks coming from the Whitehouse about how bin Laden met his demise. They're understandable I suppose, but I highly doubt 90% of Americans would have a problem with the raid no matter how it went down, whether Osama was armed or not.

Same thing with Hillary today coming out and saying that in the pictures that have been released she's covering her mouth due to allergies, not to anticpation or tension. I mean, would that many people really have cared either way?

Perhaps all the different stories are from the fog of war. Many different stories from the SEAL's at the scene.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Perhaps all the different stories are from the fog of war. Many different stories from the SEAL's at the scene.

Oh yeah, I'm sure. And like I said, you can't faul the White House for releasing the details as they did; I'm not suggesting anything nefarious or anything like that. I'm just saying it seems to me like the White House is sort of concerned about the perceptions Americans have of the raid, while I totally think most of us would be pretty darned pleased no matter how exactly it went down.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

That's what kind of puzzles me about all the statements and walkbacks coming from the Whitehouse about how bin Laden met his demise. They're understandable I suppose, but I highly doubt 90% of Americans would have a problem with the raid no matter how it went down, whether Osama was armed or not.

Same thing with Hillary today coming out and saying that in the pictures that have been released she's covering her mouth due to allergies, not to anticpation or tension. I mean, would that many people really have cared either way?

Isn't that the same pose she used when she was dodging sniper fire in Tuzla?
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Oh yeah, I'm sure. And like I said, you can't faul the White House for releasing the details as they did; I'm not suggesting anything nefarious or anything like that. I'm just saying it seems to me like the White House is sort of concerned about the perceptions Americans have of the raid, while I totally think most of us would be pretty darned pleased no matter how exactly it went down.

And what we can't do, evidently, is get the stories straight BEFORE we start taking victory laps. Oh, and maybe we could have made our decision about releasing the photos before our personal pronoun laden description of what happened, instead of permitting three days of speculation (including by the DCI) about their release.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Seems like Bush is keeping a low profile and there's nothing wrong with that. I too don't read too much into his declining to go to Ground Zero. He was invited. He decided not to go before the anniversary. End of story.

President Obama has a history of being incredibly vindictive to his political opponents... immature remarks, inappropriate gestures, etc... I know it gets people like you all happy and excited, but at this point Bush is well aware of this behavior. I can understand not wanting to take part in that. I'm sure there would have been at least a few backhanded compliments.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Oh yeah, I'm sure. And like I said, you can't faul the White House for releasing the details as they did; I'm not suggesting anything nefarious or anything like that. I'm just saying it seems to me like the White House is sort of concerned about the perceptions Americans have of the raid, while I totally think most of us would be pretty darned pleased no matter how exactly it went down.

the more they keep wanting to talk about what happened the more they ought to just show what happened... everybody is looking to get political leverage out this and in that, the back and forth, everybody in the administration are looking like fools. We get it, you know something that happened on the ****ed tape and you're getting a spin on it... clowns.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

And what we can't do, evidently, is get the stories straight BEFORE we start taking victory laps.

I don't know, I'm sort of sympathetic to them on this one. That of course would have been ideal, but that would probably would have involved waiting until the SEAL debrief finished up, which I believe was sometime on Wednesday. Could we really have held back the information that long?
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

I don't know, I'm sort of sympathetic to them on this one. That of course would have been ideal, but that would probably would have involved waiting until the SEAL debrief finished up, which I believe was sometime on Wednesday. Could we really have held back the information that long?

How about the simple and obvious expedient of responding by telling the media we haven't finished debriefing the SEALs yet and we'll provide the details when we have? But that prancing around like a cross between Alexander the Great and Rommel is way more important than getting the facts straight the first time. Personally, I don't care. But they way they handled this does remind us of this administration's ability to turn wine into water.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Wine into water would be the DNA test coming back and showing that we nailed Kamil -- bin laden's cousin, and close genetic match. :p

The entire brouhaha is silly. Give the entire country a victory lap, and then get back to work.

$.02
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Bad week for nutjobs everywhere?

A few minutes ago on May 5, 2011, Arab TV announced that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khameini requested Iran's President Ahmadinejad to step down from his post. This has not been confirmed nor verified by Western media as yet, however, it has been reported that several of his close aides are already under arrest.

The UK Guardian reported today that many of Ahmadinejad's aides were accused of using 'supernatural powers', including invoking jinns (spirits) in an attempt to further the president's agenda against Khameini. This includes Irani Chief of Staff Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei,
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

The Obama administration's incredibly amateurish behavior in the hours and days after the raid in Pakistan, in my mind, runs the risk of tarnishing the accomplishment of the SEALs, almost as though they have some explaining to do instead of our Field Marshall in Chief. Look, the details of OBL's death are insignificant when compared to the fact that we actually found and dispatched him. Armed? Wife as shield? Naked? Reaching for a weapon? Firefight? No firefight? Who cares? These extraordinarily brave and dedicated guys put their lives on the line the second they crossed into Pakistani airspace. The threat to their safety increased exponentially when they set foot in a compound housing the world's most wanted man. Shooting first and asking questions later was the only option.

In his nearly 50 minute appearance before the media, Hasso von Obama's national security guy was at great pains to talk about how "tense" things were in the situation room. Tables, chairs, air conditioning, mineral water ("would you like a sandwich, Mr. President?") I believe he managed to mention the brave men of Seal Team 6 once! Much more important for us to understand what a trial it was for Gerd von Obama, waiting there in the "sit" room to find out how the mission turned out. What is beyond dispute here is Erwin Obama placed a higher value on getting brownie points for his approval of this operation, than he did on the contributions of the SEALs--and on making sure we got accurate information about what happened. His TV statement, loaded as is his custom, with personal pronouns, proved the point. The SEALs haven't spun these fairy tales. Sepp Obama and his flunkies have. And it's shameful. Because we're all smart enough to give him the props he deserves for green lighting this mission. And explain to me again how this victory tour he's on isn't "spiking the ball."
 
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Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

The Obama administration's incredibly amateurish behavior in the hours and days after the raid in Pakistan, in my mind, runs the risk of tarnishing the accomplishment of the SEALs


LOL. :rolleyes:

You guys never disappoint...
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

The Obama administration's incredibly amateurish behavior in the hours and days after the raid in Pakistan, in my mind, runs the risk of tarnishing the accomplishment of the SEALs, almost as though they have some explaining to do instead of our Field Marshall in Chief. Look, the details of OBL's death are insignificant when compared to the fact that we actually found and dispatched him. Armed? Wife as shield? Naked? Reaching for a weapon? Firefight? No firefight? Who cares? These extraordinarily brave and dedicated guys put their lives on the line the second they crossed into Pakistani airspace. The threat to their safety increased exponentially when they set foot in a compound housing the world's most wanted man. Shooting first and asking questions later was the only option.

In his nearly 50 minute appearance before the media, Hasso von Obama's national security guy was at great pains to talk about how "tense" things were in the situation room. Tables, chairs, air conditioning, mineral water ("would you like a sandwich, Mr. President?") I believe he managed to mention the brave men of Seal Team 6 once! Much more important for us to understand what a trial it was for Gerd von Obama, waiting there in the "sit" room to find out how the mission turned out. What is beyond dispute here is Erwin Obama placed a higher value on getting brownie points for his approval of this operation, than he did on the contributions of the SEALs--and on making sure we got accurate information about what happened. His TV statement, loaded as is his custom, with personal pronouns, proved the point. The SEALs haven't spun these fairy tales. Sepp Obama and his flunkies have. And it's shameful. Because we're all smart enough to give him the props he deserves for green lighting this mission. And explain to me again how this victory tour he's on isn't "spiking the ball."

Have you no shame?
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

I think you need to get over it, pio.

It's not a victory tour to the 10yr old kid who never knew his father or to the surviving families. If Obama stayed in the White House, conservatives would have been on him like stink on . . . bin Laden's corpse.

GHWB received - and lost - a much bigger bounce after the Gulf War, and that was before contemporary cable news. A year from now, we'll be talking about the economy, that kid might still be inspired by meeting the president, and fish will have crapped out most of bin laden.
 
Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

GHWB received - and lost - a much bigger bounce after the Gulf War, and that was before contemporary cable news. A year from now, we'll be talking about the economy, that kid might still be inspired by meeting the president, and fish will have crapped out most of bin laden.

Obama got a 9-point bump that will immediately dissipate. He may get a persistent 3 or 4 point improvement in how people see him on terrorism from moderates. (The "phone call at 3 a.m." from last election was answered by the right guy.) That was probably not going to be the Big Issue in 2012 anyway.

The substantive (non-political) question is where this takes us with respect to the rest of the AQ network. If we were to sweep up all the guys OBL had contact with based on leads from his data that would probably help significantly in Afghanistan. To get out of the Burmese Monkey Trap we have to drawdown in Afghanistan, so tactical victories there enabling us to hand strategic control to the Afghan government are very important. Killing OBL not only gives us info and intel, but also the political cover to call it a day. Had to happen sometime.

In the gulf, the Arabian peninsula, and North Africa, the AQ "franchises" seem to operate on Heinlein's "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" cell architecture so OBL may not have any connection to them beyond selling the same brand of pizza. It probably won't help us at all, and our best bet is to be vigilant and support popular democratic movements whenever possible. It would be great if we could swing our support to dissident groups contingent on recognition of/peace with Israel. "OK, Mr. I Love Democracy on the Syrian Street. Let's make a deal."
 
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