Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

[state of hockey]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

York is actually completely awesome.

Yes, I know you were kidding. But still.

Yeah, I have never even been there. I have buddy that is from there, and he agrees with you. He misses it. But, as he says, he married an American woman from Monticello, MN, so he is stuck.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Regarding Pakistan (oh, and let me get my approval from jmh before I post this...what's that? oh okay: "green light") its 100% believable to me that some members, perhaps even high ranking ones, where complicit in keeping OBL's whereabouts hidden. No big surprise there. However, that's different than saying it was the military's policy to shield him, or the central government's. Look, I'm not thrilled with Pakistan's actions in all of this, but some idiot suggested an investigation or launching some other formal accusastions. What's the point? OBL is dead. Why after the fact turn a sorta helpful government into an arch enemy based on speculations?

Calls for an investigation seem to have moved beyond the "some idiot" stage. Dianne Feinstein wants an investigation, going with the old "trust but verify" line. Now the Obama administration is calling for one as well.

I guess I understand the concern about turning a "helpful" government into an archenemy, but what exactly is the worst that can happen? They might start hiding terrorists within their borders? Oh....

 

[bronconick]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Stalin said a lot of things. My favorite is probably "NIKITA! DO YOUR DANCE!!" Then Khrushchev would have to get up and dance like a Cossack. Really broke the ice at parties.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Candidate Obama:

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.

President Obama:

Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

And Limbaugh:

LIMBAUGH: Well, we've got another tape from -- I get these guys confused -- Usama bin Laden. Another tape says he's going to invade Pakistan and declare war on Pakistan and Musharraf, which, ladies and gentlemen, puts him on the same page with a Democrat presidential candidate -- that would be Barack "Uss-Obama." And let's go back to August 1st: "U-Bama" gave a speech on counterterrorism, and here's a portion of what he said.

OBAMA [audio clip]: If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.

LIMBAUGH: All right, so, we're going to attack Pakistan. Poor Musharraf's going to get it on both ends if Barack's elected.

Boo hoo.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

What a spectacular fool.

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Bugs said it best:

 

[Kepler]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

The Daily News does not disappoint:

 

[MavHockey14]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

For some reason, this really hit home with me, and I kind of believe this is quote is my thoughts on everything now. I was so quick to jubilate at the news of Bin Laden's death, when although an absolutely horrific person, he was still one of God's children. Is that truly right? Who knows, just something I was thinking about earlier!

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Calls for an investigation seem to have moved beyond the "some idiot" stage. Dianne Feinstein wants an investigation, going with the old "trust but verify" line. Now the Obama administration is calling for one as well.

I guess I understand the concern about turning a "helpful" government into an archenemy, but what exactly is the worst that can happen? They might start hiding terrorists within their borders? Oh....

The worst that can happen is a nominally friendly government can be overthrown and replaced by a Taliban-led government which would have access to their nukes and would be wiling to share with their pals in AQ. Paraphrasing Bill Clinton (and meaning no insult): "It's the nukes, stupid."

 

[Patman]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

The worst that can happen is a nominally friendly government can be overthrown and replaced by a Taliban-led government which would have access to their nukes and would be wiling to share with their pals in AQ. Paraphrasing Bill Clinton (and meaning no insult): "It's the nukes, stupid."

Pakistan is factional... the intelligence service is yet but another faction. For some parts of Pakistan our liquidating of Taliban is probably the best thing that can be done as it forces those committed to jihad in neighboring areas to expend their resources.

So, yeah... the worst thing that could happen is that we get things to a boiling point in pakistan and people start reacting which results in Islamists taking over the country.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

For some reason, this really hit home with me, and I kind of believe this is quote is my thoughts on everything now. I was so quick to jubilate at the news of Bin Laden's death, when although an absolutely horrific person, he was still one of God's children. Is that truly right? Who knows, just something I was thinking about earlier!

With all due respect to you and Dr. King: he wasn't referring to AQ or Islamism. Dr. King would be hard pressed to say a kind word about OBL or an Army "dr." who murders over a dozen people in the name of his religion. And I think Dr. King would have understood the threat to our society posed by a religion that posits a theocracy and makes no room for other religions, including his. Would he have cautioned us about respecting the rights of Muslims in this country? Without doubt.

 

[A Shot and a Goal]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

Osama is toast. Will this effect who gets the Penn State job?

 

[MavHockey14]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

With all due respect to you and Dr. King: he wasn't referring to AQ or Islamism. Dr. King would be hard pressed to say a kind word about OBL or an Army "dr." who murders over a dozen people in the name of his religion. And I think Dr. King would have understood the threat to our society posed by a religion that posits a theocracy and makes no room for other religions, including his. Would he have cautioned us about respecting the rights of Muslims in this country. Without doubt.

I totally understand your point as well, which is why I'm confused on my feelings towards it. I'm rather religious, and thus I have conflicting feelings, because instantly I was thrilled at the death of someone, but it's kind of an odd situation.

 

[geezer]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

For some reason, this really hit home with me, and I kind of believe this is quote is my thoughts on everything now. I was so quick to jubilate at the news of Bin Laden's death, when although an absolutely horrific person, he was still one of God's children. Is that truly right? Who knows, just something I was thinking about earlier!

There's no question that Osama got what was coming to him, and the violence that took him out is justified in self defense, not in revenge. But it certainly can make a Christian uncomfortable to witness death parties rejoicing in the streets over it. Also: MLK Jr. was incredibly gifted. I've only recently read much of his stuff, being raised in the era between his life and later, when he became fully recognized in the culture and K-12 curriculum.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

I totally understand your point as well, which is why I'm confused on my feelings towards it. I'm rather religious, and thus I have conflicting feelings, because instantly I was thrilled at the death of someone, but it's kind of an odd situation.

If the film "Sergeant York" was accurate, the great hero had his doubts, too. But when push came to shove, he did the right thing. What about the hundreds of thousands of civilians who were killed in air raids over Germany and Japan? The vast majority of 'em had little if anything to do with their war effort, but we killed 'em anyway. It's a pretty good guess that some of those pilots had serous doubts, too.

 

[geezer]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

What a spectacular fool.

This snippet would seem to be at odds with ABC's reporting of Rush setting aside politics to praise Obama's leadership. Maybe they didn't stay tuned in long enough, or listened to more of it.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

This snippet would seem to be at odds with ABC's reporting of Rush setting aside politics to praise Obama's leadership. Maybe they didn't stay tuned in long enough, or listened to more of it.

There was a big discussion going on at Andrew Sullivan's blog over whether it was sarcasm or not. Personally, I find the whole thing hilarious. People who moan about Limbaugh, but then just can't resist turning him on in the car, or trolling the internet for info about him. And I bet he just sits back and laughs and laughs and laughs.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

I'm not the least bit religious, I just feel weird celebrating death jubilantly. I am not mourning his death one bit, but I'm not going to jump around in the streets either. In no way am I going to tell a surivivor or relative of 9-11 victims to tone it down, though. No effing way. This was your day.

He was an absolute pile of excrement, and that is a huge compliment to piles of excrement. I am glad we got him, but that's where it ends. He's dead, moving on.

 

[geezer]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

I'm not the least bit religious, I just feel weird celebrating death jubilantly. I am not mourning his death one bit, but I'm not going to jump around in the streets either. In no way am I going to tell a surivivor or relative of 9-11 victims to tone it down, though. No effing way. This was your day.

He was an absolute pile of excrement, and that is a huge compliment to piles of excrement. I am glad we got him, but that's where it ends. He's dead, moving on.

That sounds right to me. Maybe the solemnity is more a humanistic reaction than a religious one.

 

[MavHockey14]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

There's no question that Osama got what was coming to him, and the violence that took him out is justified in self defense, not in revenge. But it certainly can make a Christian uncomfortable to witness death parties rejoicing in the streets over it. Also: MLK Jr. was incredibly gifted. I've only recently read much of his stuff, being raised in the era between his life and later, when he became fully recognized in the culture and K-12 curriculum.

Interestingly, as I was watching the evening news tonight, there were interviews from people from victims of 9/11 in Minnesota. In the two interviews they had on two seperate individuals, both were unique. The first talked about a brother of a vicitim in one of the towers, who said it's not a day of rejoicing, but simply a day of relief. The second said that the wife of a hero who helped take down the plane in PA and she said, "I've found myself feeling guilty about being happy for the death of an enemy. Yes he took many lives, but is should we take an eye for an eye?"

 

[MavHockey14]

Re: Osama bin Laden Declared Dead

I'm not the least bit religious, I just feel weird celebrating death jubilantly. I am not mourning his death one bit, but I'm not going to jump around in the streets either. In no way am I going to tell a surivivor or relative of 9-11 victims to tone it down, though. No effing way. This was your day.

He was an absolute pile of excrement, and that is a huge compliment to piles of excrement. I am glad we got him, but that's where it ends. He's dead, moving on.

I think this is the conclusion I am coming to as well. Well said soh!