ObamaRama 8

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Sometimes he makes sense, but not in this case. We are at war in Afghanistan and Iraq and military justice should prevail there, although not sure what that means from the result in gitmo and abu. The "war" on terror is nonsense... like "war" on drugs or "war" on poverty, it's not a real war.

Actually, we are engaged in military conflict, and until and if Congress chooses to actually declare war, that's how it's gonna be.

If Buchanan wants these people treated as enemy combatants, like the Japanese in WWII, that's what's gonna have to happen.

 

[Slap Shot]

OK, bring them to NY, and then put them in the general population at Rikers Island. How long do they last?
Problem = solved
Taxpayer $ spent -- not much
Justice served

Anyone have a problem with this?

Only that it would briefly divert attention from the pedophiles in gp.

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

What have they done to warrant the protections we give to citizens? Why should we give them a high profile platform to fire up other jihadists?

"other jihadists" have known these guys were sitting in GITMO and being tortured for many years now. If that wasn't enough to get them fired up, why will they now all of a sudden?

 

[Slap Shot]

Obama, Holder predict conviction in 9/11 case

Odd prediction for someone that wants to set him free.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: ObamaRama 8

we'll already be taking the second butt-reaming from the Wall Street big boys

Dude, you got some really sick fantasies.

 

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Obama, Holder predict conviction in 9/11 case

Odd prediction for someone that wants to set him free.

Maybe he(they) are sandbagging

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

"other jihadists" have known these guys were sitting in GITMO and being tortured for many years now. If that wasn't enough to get them fired up, why will they now all of a sudden?

I don't know that it would be "all of a sudden," given the number of Islamist terror attacks around the world the past several years. But having the trial in NYC, the symbol of the "great satan," with the attendant nightly news coverage and outpouring of hatred on Islamist web sites might have some sort of an impact on them, don't you think?

And what about my first question, why should these foreign attackers captured on battlefields by our military get the same rights as you or me? To make a point? Well, that kind of pandering can come back to bite you.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Actually, we are engaged in military conflict, and until and if Congress chooses to actually declare war, that's how it's gonna be.

If Buchanan wants these people treated as enemy combatants, like the Japanese in WWII, that's what's gonna have to happen.

Uh, we don't declare war anymore and haven't in 70 odd years.

 

[Patman]

Re: ObamaRama 8

KSM, I'd like to introduce you to the president of the David Duke fan club. Let the games begin!

Which would be ironic since David Duke is an ally of some of the arabic supremacists (how much that dovetails to Islamic Surpemacists I'm not sure... but I know Duke is allied).

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Which would be ironic since David Duke is an ally of some of the arabic supremacists (how much that dovetails to Islamic Surpemacists I'm not sure... but I know Duke is allied).

Yeah, I remembered that after posting the comment. Duke now proclaims he has a PhD from some diploma mill in the Ukraine. He was an honored "expert" on the holocaust at that little anti-semitic love fest in Iran. I know I've posted this before, but when he was a student at LSU, he regularly paraded around campus in his little SA suit dropping N-bombs among other bon mots. Why no black member of the tiger football team didn't take his head off is still a mystery to me.

So let's say we introduce KSM to some generic white power bubba in Rikers whose firefighter brother died on 9/11. I'd pay to watch that.

 

[Tundra]

Re: ObamaRama 8

And what about my first question, why should these foreign attackers captured on battlefields by our military get the same rights as you or me? To make a point? Well, that kind of pandering can come back to bite you.

They should be executed if found guilty by military court in the combat zone, don't have a problem with rendition or even abu if we could keep it secret and controlled, not some twits making video of it, but indefinite holding or forever torture when all useful info is gotten or stale seems wrong.

I've sympathy for anti-heros, vigilantes like Dexter... a serial killer killing other serial rapist/killers... because he kills in the name of Harry (Justice) even tortures them and enjoys it but he does it after verification not before. Same thing with killing guilty terrorist even with torture is ok with me... but not every single stinking person you round up "suspected of terrorism" or enemy combatant. That is just stupid at every level.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

They should be executed if found guilty by military court in the combat zone, don't have a problem with rendition or even abu if we could keep it secret and controlled, not some twits making video of it, but indefinite holding or forever torture when all useful info is gotten or stale seems wrong.

I've sympathy for anti-heros, vigilantes like Dexter... a serial killer killing other serial rapist/killers... because he kills in the name of Harry (Justice) even tortures them and enjoys it but he does it after verification not before. Same thing with killing guilty terrorist even with torture is ok with me... but not every single stinking person you round up "suspected of terrorism" or enemy combatant. That is just stupid at every level.

?

So the only disagreement we have is figuring out the most painful, humiliating was to kill these guys? Works for me.

 

[Tundra]

Re: ObamaRama 8

?

So the only disagreement we have is figuring out the most painful, humiliating was to kill these guys? Works for me.

No. like the code of Harry (Dexter Showtime TM). there has to be a reason for the torture... like getting useful info. humiliation for sake of humilating is wrong, useless, and harmful especially if it gets out like in Abu.

Someone like Dr Hasan, DC sniper (who was executed last week after 7 years), Mcveigh (who was executed after he didn't appeal) and others charged with mass murder, got their dessert in the end. And so we should seek justice in our laws and if our laws are wanting then create "star chamber" esque 2nd level judicial system instead of the current morrass created by Bush and cohorts.

So the dsagreement is in how we implement the execution and torture to gain info... there is a smart way.. and there is Bush/Republican way.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

No. like the code of Harry (Dexter Showtime TM). there has to be a reason for the torture... like getting useful info. humiliation for sake of humilating is wrong, useless, and harmful especially if it gets out like in Abu.

Someone like Dr Hasan, DC sniper (who was executed last week after 7 years), Mcveigh (who was executed after he didn't appeal) and others charged with mass murder, got their dessert in the end. And so we should seek justice in our laws and if our laws are wanting then create "star chamber" esque 2nd level judicial system instead of the current morrass created by Bush and cohorts.

So the dsagreement is in how we implement the execution and torture to gain info... there is a smart way.. and there is Bush/Republican way.

Of course, "it's all bush's fault." So original. So irrelevant. I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage, since I don't watch "Dexter," so I can't comment on his "philosophy." In fact, generally I try to avoid forming my opinion based on entertainment TV shows.

Military tribunals have a long history in this country and they predate George W. Bush by over 100 years. They were quite capable of dealing with the conspirators who murdered Abraham Lincoln and a U-boat full of Nazi saboteurs. And they're quite capable of dealing fairly and efficiently with KSM and other psychopathic killers. And they are legal. What we're dealing with here is a president and an attorney general who want to have their "day of reckoning" for the far left wing of their party. And if it compromises our continuing anti-terrorism efforts, or puts the people of NYC at risk of another attack, or if the trial gives the defendants and assorted lefty kooks who never miss a chance to criticize America a platform,or if the trial fails to get convictions, then so what?

Somehow I got lulled into thinking your glowing reference to a fictional TV serial killer meant we were in basic agreement here, my apologies. And I've reread the passage about the Bush-created "morass" and I'm not exactly certain what you're referring to. Although I do get the picture that "it's all Bush's fault," no matter what "it" is. But it is interesting, as I read your post, that you don't have a problem with waterboarding, just the way the Bush had it administered. The "dumb" way to tortue, as opposed to your fictional character's "smart" way. Got it.

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Uh, we don't declare war anymore and haven't in 70 odd years.

Not my problem. You want things done the way you want, why don't you get on your representatives to follow through.

There are ways these things are done. Don't blame the rest of us because things aren't to your liking. Work to get the result you desire.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Not my problem. You want things done the way you want, why don't you get on your representatives to follow through.

There are ways these things are done. Don't blame the rest of us because things aren't to your liking. Work to get the result you desire.

I'm not at all unhappy that we've abandoned the 19th century concept of declaring war. I'm perfectly happy with presidents asking and congress authorizing the money for an overseas deployment.

Sadly, I'm not getting your point here. Is it that since we've not declared war, we can't treat this foreign combatants like foreign combatants? I don't agree and suspect the supreme court won't either, when and if the matter comes before them.

The president and Mr. Holder wish to make a giant pander to the hard left. Fine. There are some significant pitfalls, not the least of which is that even if these monsters are convicted and condemned, it'll take 20 years for us to juice them. And I won't be around to enjoy it.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

is anyone even slightly worried about Holder and Obama declaring these guys guilty before the trials? I want these b^stards to pay too, but, hey, this is the United States? don't we have presumed innocence?

 

[mookie1995]

Re: ObamaRama 8

is anyone even slightly worried about Holder and Obama declaring these guys guilty before the trials? I want these b^stards to pay too, but, hey, this is the United States? don't we have presumed innocence?

they confessed, right?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

is anyone even slightly worried about Holder and Obama declaring these guys guilty before the trials? I want these b^stards to pay too, but, hey, this is the United States? don't we have presumed innocence?

Sure, but given the extraordinary amount of pre-trial publicity, even I can't see a federal judge kicking this case because of it.

Some of you may recall during histrial for murdering Sharon Tate and the others, Charlie Manson produced an LA Times, on the front page of which was a headline that Nixon had declared him guilty. Judge ruled Charlie didn't get to sabotage his own trial, didn't get to profit from Nixon's "mistake."

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: ObamaRama 8

is anyone even slightly worried about Holder and Obama declaring these guys guilty before the trials? I want these b^stards to pay too, but, hey, this is the United States? don't we have presumed innocence?

Why, if Bush did it you wouldn't have cared much.