ObamaRama 8

[5mn_Major]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Bailouts cost $10K per GM car sold

Obviously this number will go down over time, but it shows how daunting (and doubtful) it will be for the taxpayers to actually get their money back on this.

There was no silver bullet here. We either backstop them or let them go under and suffer many unknown implications of that. And we weren't talking about this happening in a healthy economy...but at the depths of the worst economic crisis this country has had in generations. It would be interesting to see how a $10k per car compares to a lack of tax revenue from newly laid off and unemployment costs (as well as reduced consumer spending) from hundreds of thousands linked to GM and Delphi. And even that 10k per car is a loan...lost US revenue and increased outlays would have been permanent.

 

[unofan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

lost US revenue and increased outlays would have been permanent.

...until other companies filled the void. Or do you think people would suddenly stop needing automobiles simply because GM collapsed?

 

[Bill]

Re: ObamaRama 8

After looking at the potential lineup of Chrysler-Fiat's cars, I think bankruptcy and liquidation would have been easier this year, than in 2-3 years.

Yep, Chrysler is also in trouble. And in a different industry, so is GE.

 

[ScottM]

Re: ObamaRama 8

...until other companies filled the void. Or do you think people would suddenly stop needing automobiles simply because GM collapsed?

And that's part of the rub with Big 3, nobody wanted to buy their cars and they had other options, such as Toyota, VW, Kia, etc. Looking at the latest sales figures, not much has really changed much, except for Ford to some degree. And as much as it grates on people, there is no economy or economic recovery without a stable financial system, bailouts or no.

 

[MattS]

Re: ObamaRama 8

And that's part of the rub with Big 3, nobody wanted to buy their cars and they had other options, such as Toyota, VW, Kia, etc. Looking at the latest sales figures, not much has really changed much, except for Ford to some degree. And as much as it grates on people, there is no economy or economic recovery without a stable financial system, bailouts or no.

Yup, our taxpayer dollars spent propping up two industries that don't deserve it and won't benefit from it. Detroit is still making cars that nobody wants and won't buy. It's just a matter of time until there is no American car industry, unless there is a wholly Government owned and run car company. Well, maybe one of the Ford, Chrysler, or GM will survive but certainly not all three or even two.

The financial industry is still making stupid bets with their money. Banks are still going under. I am sure the largest of financial institutions have not learned a thing expect they can play loose with their money and if they F up, well, the Government will bail them out. I agree that we need a healthy banking system but the taxpayers have spent billions and we still don't have it and I don't think we will until rules are revamped.

Lesson learned by both industries.

 

[Rover]

Re: ObamaRama 8

There was no silver bullet here. We either backstop them or let them go under and suffer many unknown implications of that. And we weren't talking about this happening in a healthy economy...but at the depths of the worst economic crisis this country has had in generations. It would be interesting to see how a $10k per car compares to a lack of tax revenue from newly laid off and unemployment costs (as well as reduced consumer spending) from hundreds of thousands linked to GM and Delphi. And even that 10k per car is a loan...lost US revenue and increased outlays would have been permanent.

I already had this conversation earlier this year, but I wouldn't waste your time with logic. Basically some people just want to complain. There's an excellent opinion piece by GOP'er David Frum on Politico's website about what were the real alternatives to the bailout, and the answer from conservatives tended to be "not much". There's no point though in trying to reason with the "Palinistas" as I like to call them (Bill, MinnFan, MattS, walrus).

 

[ScottM]

Re: ObamaRama 8

The financial industry is still making stupid bets with their money. Banks are still going under. I am sure the largest of financial institutions have not learned a thing expect they can play loose with their money and if they F up, well, the Government will bail them out.

Many of the larger banks, including Citi and some its TARP bretheren, are sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. They are not lending it, they are not spending it, nor are they paying back the feds anytime soon. Wells is a good example of a bank that's taking its time. They have solid capital cushions, but are pretty gun shy about taking on major risks or lending to business or consumers. We'll probably see over 1,000 banks fail by the time this is over, including those that are shotgunned into marriage by the feds. On one hand the feds are jawing these guys into lending and investing, which makes sense, but on the other the feds are concerned about maintaining capital and too much cheap money, even those rates are very low. Which also makes sense ...

 

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I already had this conversation earlier this year, but I wouldn't waste your time with logic. Basically some people just want to complain. There's an excellent opinion piece by GOP'er David Frum on Politico's website about what were the real alternatives to the bailout, and the answer from conservatives tended to be "not much". There's no point though in trying to reason with the "Palinistas" as I like to call them (Bill, MinnFan, MattS, walrus).

Here's another article on the economy.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions...icans_should_hunker_down_for_more_job_lo.html

 

[MattS]

Re: ObamaRama 8

There's no point though in trying to reason with the "Palinistas" as I like to call them (Bill, MinnFan, MattS, walrus).

W..T..F?? Just because I don't agree with your spoon fed DNC/Obama garbage you need to name call? Dope.

 

[MattS]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Many of the larger banks, including Citi and some its TARP bretheren, are sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. They are not lending it, they are not spending it, nor are they paying back the feds anytime soon. Wells is a good example of a bank that's taking its time. They have solid capital cushions, but are pretty gun shy about taking on major risks or lending to business or consumers.

I believe you on this, I just don't think it will last. Give the CEO's a year or so to get comfy again and I will guarantee they will start making fast and stupid with their money again.

We'll probably see over 1,000 banks fail by the time this is over, including those that are shotgunned into marriage by the feds. On one hand the feds are jawing these guys into lending and investing, which makes sense, but on the other the feds are concerned about maintaining capital and too much cheap money, even those rates are very low. Which also makes sense ...

Which is why I think we are no where near the end of this mess no matter what the latest spin is from the WH. The people in the Fed and the WH can't get their act together and give the banks clear marching orders and it is going to cost more and more as time goes on. On the other hand it's up to the CEO's of these banks to make sound financial decisions on behalf of their companies no matter what the Government says. It's that why they get paid the big bucks?

 

[Bill]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Here's another article on the economy.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions...icans_should_hunker_down_for_more_job_lo.html

And another:

http://www.moneymorning.com/2009/11/17/open-letter-geithner/

 

[joecct]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Can somebody check the size of the Ohio delegation to Congress?

It's easy to get dead people to vote. Heck, that's been going on for centuries. But to assign them to "ghost" congressional districts - that's amazing! Send the Birthers and Deathers there! We may have something!

 

[French Rage]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Can somebody check the size of the Ohio delegation to Congress?

It's easy to get dead people to vote. Heck, that's been going on for centuries. But to assign them to "ghost" congressional districts - that's amazing! Send the Birthers and Deathers there! We may have something!

Making up 20 and 21 is getting risky, but 99 is just plain greedy.

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I believe you on this, I just don't think it will last. Give the CEO's a year or so to get comfy again and I will guarantee they will start making fast and stupid with their money again.

By then it won't matter, cause we'll already be taking the second butt-reaming from the Wall Street big boys, who have had no qualms about playing fast and stupid with (our) money again.

Business as usual.

 

[MattS]

Re: ObamaRama 8

By then it won't matter, cause we'll already be taking the second butt-reaming from the Wall Street big boys, who have had no qualms about playing fast and stupid with (our) money again.

Business as usual.

I am sure by then they will be telling us

Nothing to see here move along, move along.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: ObamaRama 8

my crazy email inbox BHO notice of the day:


Can you even believe this??

Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse.

Tomorrow, the wolves will be herding the sheep!

Obama Appoints two devout Muslims to homeland security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already?

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0609/ArifAlikhanImage1.jpg

Obama and Janet Napolitano Appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim as Assistant Secretary for Policy

Development Source for announcement: Homeland Security Press Room.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...intment-arif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0609/shoraImage1.jpg

The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that the DHS Secretary

Janet Napolitano swore-in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim, who was born in Damascus, Syria as ADC

National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).http://www.adc.org/

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a
devout Catholic, Jew or Protestant...?
Just wondering
Doesn't this make you feel safer already??
Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions?
That should make our homeland much safer, huh!!
Was it not men of the "Devout Muslim Faith" that flew planes into U.S.
buildings not too long ago. What the hell is this president thinking?

This announcement was made on Aug 20. Why are we just now hearing about it???

 

[Bill]

Re: ObamaRama 8

...and was able to maintain operations along with thousands of other American companies that rely on it. No...letting hundreds of thousands of jobs get flushed by failing to support companies like Bank of America would have had the potential for disaster...to a fragile recovery and the government budget via lower revenues due to fewer employed and higher government outlays due to unemployment support. At a different time, failure is acceptable...in 2009, it would have taken the recession to another level. Sorry as with the many poor decisions of the Republican monopoly....'letting them all fail' would have put an exclamation on the recession.

GM did fail. It still had to declare BK. Many on the Right didn't want GM to fail in the sense that they wanted it to totally go out of business. They wanted GM to go through BK and restructure itself without throwing gov't bailout money at the problem.

 

[omahasioux1]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Obama and his cronies must own the oil companies. Where is the 1.69 a gallon when Bush was in office. Why aren't you left wing nut jobs still blaming Bush for high oil prices.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Many of the larger banks, including Citi and some its TARP bretheren, are sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. They are not lending it, they are not spending it, nor are they paying back the feds anytime soon. Wells is a good example of a bank that's taking its time. They have solid capital cushions, but are pretty gun shy about taking on major risks or lending to business or consumers. We'll probably see over 1,000 banks fail by the time this is over, including those that are shotgunned into marriage by the feds. On one hand the feds are jawing these guys into lending and investing, which makes sense, but on the other the feds are concerned about maintaining capital and too much cheap money, even those rates are very low. Which also makes sense ...

Most of them aren't totally sitting on their cash. Since the Fed has a 0% rate they can buy T-Bills and make 2-3%. Basically, the gov't is paying interest on its own bailout. Its one of the reasons that inflation has remained low.

Makes sense from their standpoint. In this market, why would you make risky loans when you can get a guaranteed profit with zero risk.

 

[French Rage]

Re: ObamaRama 8

my crazy email inbox BHO notice of the day:


Can you even believe this??

Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse.

Tomorrow, the wolves will be herding the sheep!

Obama Appoints two devout Muslims to homeland security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already?

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0609/ArifAlikhanImage1.jpg

Obama and Janet Napolitano Appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim as Assistant Secretary for Policy

Development Source for announcement: Homeland Security Press Room.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...intment-arif-ali-khan-asst-secretary-dhs.html

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0609/shoraImage1.jpg

The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that the DHS Secretary

Janet Napolitano swore-in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim, who was born in Damascus, Syria as ADC

National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).http://www.adc.org/

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a
devout Catholic, Jew or Protestant...?
Just wondering
Doesn't this make you feel safer already??
Devout Muslims being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions?
That should make our homeland much safer, huh!!
Was it not men of the "Devout Muslim Faith" that flew planes into U.S.
buildings not too long ago. What the hell is this president thinking?

This announcement was made on Aug 20. Why are we just now hearing about it???

True: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dhs.asp

Though the first was described by a German newspaper, not by himself or the administration, as a "devout Sunni", while the second simply describes himself as a "Muslim-American".