Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I wouldn't hang my hat on the tea party. Friend of mine whose running for GOP says the tea party has extremists. This coming from a hardcore republican.

You wouldn't support the tea party because it has extremists?

By that logic, you couldn't support any political party.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I wasn't arguing that nobody should pay taxes for services (that they vote for). I was pointing out to the idiots who say, "It won't cost anything, the gov't will pay for it" (actually it was just rover) that the government doesn't actually pay for anything.

You're not going to weasel out of your idiotic comments by setting up a straw man argument to knock down. Point out where I said nothing costs anything because the govt pays for it.

Second, your next point is the dumbest of all. A majority of citizens may not approve of military spending. Should we just put all military spending, including those in a time of war, up to a popular vote? Yeesh. I often say conservativism has no practical application in the real world. It sure is nice when one of you posters makes that point for me.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Assuming that the many years of fiscal mismanagement are going to lead to higher tax rates for most of us, I would argue that this certainly constitutes greater control over our lives. Having less take-home pay certainly has an impact on the economic decisions we make in day-to-day life and will influence what we can / cannot buy. To get ourselves out of this fiscal mess, it's going to take decades of higher taxes and reduced government spending. Over the course of one's career, that "modest" increase in taxes will add up to many thousands of dollars. Now add in the double whammy that social security will almost certainly be reducing benefits and the length of time one can collect them to remain solvent. So, not only will we young workers have to pay higher tax rates over our careers, we'll also have to retire later and receive lower benefits after retiring - if we can retire at all. Oh, and while the government is taking more of our hard-earned money, the Federal reserve is printing it left and right for "quantitative easing" and devaluing the money we have.

I will leave the regulatory alarmist thinking to others here - my main concern is an economic one, given the fact that most control is based on financial freedom.

No offense, but I find this to be dubious logic. Paying a marginally higher tax rate does not restrict your freedoms, because over time you may be earning more money anyway, thus increasing your take home pay (and increasing your tax deductions). You may also have to work longer into retirement because of your own failed planning, not because of the govt. This is the typical logic conservatives tend to use to blame everything on "da gubmint" whether they have anything to do with it or not. Following this train of thought, why not just blame bad weather on the govt too?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I can't argue your point...the problem is that government types want power and they get power buy giving $$$ to those whom elected them. The biggest reason the tea party is gaining so much steam heading towards this election is because anyone that has any sense of fiscal conservatism is sick of it. We want austerity, even if it hurts us personally. We want the federal government to get back to the limited scope that it should be and we want the states to have the power to decide how things within their own state are dealt with. There is little doubt that the republican party has strayed from these views over time in favor or more spending on socially conservative issues and keeping the government big, but in different ways than what liberals want. I'm just saying I disagree with both of the party elite right now.

I am sorry, I am going to call BS on this one. We may want austerity right now, but you and I both know as soon as people feel that austerity is blocking their ability to do or have something they want (note I said want not need) these same people will be crying to the high heavens that they are being held back or denied something. Not to use one of Rover's lame examples but those people on Medicare who are whining about spending may want their benefits cut right now, but as soon as they get sick or break an arm or need surgery who do you think is going to be whining when their benefits get cut.

People are selfish by nature...if the Government cut back everything to balance the budget it would take at most 4 months before people when ape**** over it like they are in Europe.

edit: I tis like with police officers, people love cops and applaud them doing their job, except when doing their job involves pulling you over for something...then they are just *****s and power hungry jerkoffs, even though you were speeding or you had expired tabs.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The irony is that the govt is right now paying for the very health care you decry so much.

this is the actual quote.
My point is that the government isn't paying for anything at all. These funds are borrowed against some future tax revenues from real people. The gov't can say, don't worry we'll cover your doctor bills, mortgages etc. but at some point the bill will come due.

As for my "idiotic" statement that people should pay the taxes they vote for, I was thinking in an abstract sense: people have a choice of whether to vote for more of the same big spenders, in which case we're morally stuck with the bill the same as we'll be paying for the last many years of deficit spending that we voted for by electing past liberal spenders; or we could vote for fiscally responsible politicians, and dial it back to manageable levels. I didn't mean we should put legislation to a popular vote. Throw em out this fall.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Not a bad example. I highly doubt the details of the referendum said anything about using the money to pay allow the school to keep paying to bus children that lived last than 2 miles from school. Where I grew up they followed the same rule and I didn't get bussed to school because I lived to close, so I walked or got a ride from my parents. In other news, I'm sure if the teachers union at the school district was more realistic about the economic situation and started having a contract that reflected more of what the rest of us do for retirement and healthcare, there would have been plenty of money to bus every kid to school.

No they wouldnt, but you keep beating the "Boogeyman" drum. I have gone to the meetings for the Teacher's Union...the amount of lies out there going around about them is hilarious. I dont like them because I am not pro union, but jesus the mythical amount of power they have is so off the charts wrong it actually makes me laugh out loud.

And just to pre-empt the arguments that will ensue, I am a teacher in the Minneapolis School District so I see firsthand how this goes. To even suggest it is the teachers that are the problem is so shortsighted you might as well be blind. It must be that 80k they make a year according to the Right

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

But some teachers definitely are part of the problem. Not all, but I don't think anyone is suggesting all of them are.

Also, I don't think any serious person thinks every teacher makes $80,000 a year. And, I think most people don't have a problem when they do. What people do have a problem with are people like the woman from New Jersey who complained about how unappreciated she was while pulling in $86,000 a year.

You think the teachers unions don't have power? Take a look at what happened in the DC mayoral race last month, with the teachers spending a cool $1 million to oust Adrian Fenty.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Yes there are...there was an argument in the last thread about it...hell Minnfan posted an article about it. People believe it that is why all you hear about is the Teachers Union and how it is destroying the world. Seriously, if they had half the power the Right says they do they wouldnt need to have a union at all. Right now they have no power or leverage...hell the city isnt even honoring the contract they have now and the teachers have no power to stop it. The TU is

Oh and I know plenty of teachers that are nothing but problems Idiots like the lady you reference (which btw is rather overused, that is one person...it is no different than when Rover trots out the Tea Party person with the sign about keeping the government out of his medicare...on or two loonies does not a group make) should be shot or at least not allowed to teach children.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Oh and I know plenty of teachers that are nothing but problems

Okay, but you've just said this in your previous post:

To even suggest it is the teachers that are the problem is so shortsighted you might as well be blind.

I honestly don't remember the article that MinnFan posted, I think I would've remembered it for its idiocy if it suggested all teachers make $80,000 a year, but maybe not.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

You forgot the smilie! I never said what kind of problems the teachers were

And you have to go back to the post I was responding too, where Shirtless Guy made the comment implying the teachers union was causing some of the funding problems that lead to the bussing issue which is ludicrous on quite a few levels. He just wanted to take a shot at a union he dislikes not knowing anything about how the district is run, where the money goes or why. That is what I meant when I said they were not the problem.

Next time i will be more clear.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Q. the people don't want gun control?

A. I don't have a poll in front of me, but I'll bet it's about 60-40 against (unless the question is loaded either way). Where I live, it's 99.8 - 0.2 against, up from 0.1 because now both my daughters vote.

Q. The people don't want marriage for everybody?

A. Again, no poll, but I'm pretty sure a majority doesn't want marriage equality but does want civil unions. Not that basic questions of civil rights should be decided by poll.

Q. The people want bridges to nowhere?

A. "It's good for jobs."

Q. The people wanted us to torture people at Gitmo?

A. Again, not something you want to put to a vote, but I imagine a large majority would vote for torture in a secret ballot. When threatened, we become animals.

Q. The people want oil companies to be subsidized?

A. I got nothin.'

Q. The people want the government to buy the mythical $1,000 hammer

A. As long as you run an ad that there's a bear, an Arab, a Hun, an Indian, a Spaniard, or a redcoat in the woods, than yes, people will buy anything for "defense."

did somebody hack into your account? not surprised at the answers, only that they came from you.

The point was that 'the people' don't vote on those things...90% of it will occur no matter which party is in power. Even if the majority of the country wouldn't vote to build a worthless bridge in Alaska (do you really think the few hundred jobs would sway the majority of the country???) they'll never get the chance. So, 'the people' don't get to decide what happens in DC, most don't care, and of those who care, most have no idea what is in the various appropriatins bills etc.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

But some teachers definitely are part of the problem. Not all, but I don't think anyone is suggesting all of them are.

Also, I don't think any serious person thinks every teacher makes $80,000 a year. And, I think most people don't have a problem when they do. What people do have a problem with are people like the woman from New Jersey who complained about how unappreciated she was while pulling in $86,000 a year.

You think the teachers unions don't have power? Take a look at what happened in the DC mayoral race last month, with the teachers spending a cool $1 million to oust Adrian Fenty.

But it is only big business that has lobbyists and spends money to influence elections and policy. Non-profits, unions etc. don't do any of that stuff

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

No offense, but I find this to be dubious logic.

Of course you'd think this - because the government is always justified in taking more of the money that I earn for its uses, right?

Paying a marginally higher tax rate does not restrict your freedoms, because over time you may be earning more money anyway, thus increasing your take home pay (and increasing your tax deductions).

The issue isn't whether or not I earn more money in the future than I earn now. The issue is what happens with my take-home pay because of changes in government fiscal and monetary policy. Because of the likelihood of higher tax rates, I will have less money than I would have otherwise been able to spend/save/invest if the government left tax rates as-is. And thanks to the Fed's loose monetary policy, what money I do manage to earn will be worth less due to the devaluing of the dollar, and my savings will earn less interest due to the ridiculously low interest rates. Then again, I'm not at all surprised you'd gloss over the consequences of government policies.

You may also have to work longer into retirement because of your own failed planning, not because of the govt.

Retirement planning is based on assumptions. If the retirement age and benefit payouts are up in the air, it's very difficult to do the necessary planning. For example, do I assume a full benefit payout at 70 or 75? Do I assume the benefit amount will be close to what current law dictates or less? If less, how much less? This sort of uncertainty can create a wide range in determining how much I need to save, what rate of return I need, and how long I need to invest to provide sufficient income in retirement. If Congress would get off its *** and take the necessary steps to solve the problem, I - and others like me - wouldn't have to be faced with this ridiculous uncertainty and could plan accordingly (since the more time we have to plan for something, the better we'll be able to cope with it).

This is the typical logic conservatives tend to use to blame everything on "da gubmint" whether they have anything to do with it or not. Following this train of thought, why not just blame bad weather on the govt too?

Because of government policies, I will be financially worse off in the future than I otherwise would have been. If you can't understand that based on what I've posted, you truly don't understand basic mathematics or economics.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Yesterdays rally in DC

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[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

You forgot the smilie! I never said what kind of problems the teachers were

And you have to go back to the post I was responding too, where Shirtless Guy made the comment implying the teachers union was causing some of the funding problems that lead to the bussing issue which is ludicrous on quite a few levels. He just wanted to take a shot at a union he dislikes not knowing anything about how the district is run, where the money goes or why. That is what I meant when I said they were not the problem.

Next time i will be more clear.

Ah, should have read SG's post a little more closely. I largely agree with you then. However, I think you've made a common mistake, taking SG's comment against the teachers unions as being against teachers, which I don't think is true, the two are not the same thing. You can detest the teachers unions but still appreciate teachers themselves, a fact that many people don't seem to understand.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Yesterdays rally in DC

And here's what they left behind.

http://plixi.com/p/48407257

Imagine what the scene would have been if they didn't care about the environment?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Ah, should have read SG's post a little more closely. I largely agree with you then. However, I think you've made a common mistake, taking SG's comment against the teachers unions as being against teachers, which I don't think is true, the two are not the same thing. You can detest the teachers unions but still appreciate teachers themselves, a fact that many people don't seem to understand.

I understand it...because I am a teacher but hate the union!

Part of it also is Shirtless and I have had this conversation before (at least I am 90% sure it was him I get him mixed up with a few other posters these days) and he isnt just against the union, he tends to spout the Fox diatribe on the matter which is closer to anti-teacher than it is anti-union.

Look, I chose the field I am going in and I am not going to whine about the money I will make, I knew it coming in. But I am going to get into the face of anyone who says or implies that teachers make a lot of money (and often the implication is too much which just makes me laugh) because the numbers can be extrapolated to say some large number which is stupid. (the last fight was all about doing algebra to prove the 80k figure) Maybe in the affluent suburbs people are raking in the dough (just like cops in the rich suburbs make better money) but most everywhere else the teachers I know are struggling to survive. That is why many teach summer school, get second jobs...etc. Add in the fact that the city districts are low on cash (we dont have enough books for all the students in any one class to be able to use them at my school in my program) and the situations are dire. It is only worse with the Federal Government involved...lets underfund the struggling schools (ignoring why they may be struggling) that will force them to get their act together!

I admit I am totally biased, but that doesnt mean I am wrong

 

[SteveP]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

C'mon, they have union people to clean up after them.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

WSJ fires back at the administration on the McDonald's fiasco.

McDonald's didn't deny that the new rules will wipe out its existing plans. And that's precisely the point. The entire philosophical and policy architecture of ObamaCare is explicitly designed to standardize health benefits and how those benefits should be paid for. Those choices and tradeoffs will be made for everyone by Ms. Sebelius's regulators...
McDonald's may eventually offer the high-cost plans that Ms. Sebelius favors, or get its waiver, but many of its less profitable or smaller competitors won't. While subsidized ObamaCare options will be available in 2014, those costs will merely be transferred to taxpayers.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

And here's what they left behind.

http://plixi.com/p/48407257

Imagine what the scene would have been if they didn't care about the environment?

Yeah, a little party involving union goons, communists and socialists. Not exactly the most representative bunch. I don't give a rip about Glenn Beck and his little gathering, but it's an exercise in delusion to even suggest this "hate America" rally had the same number of people. As I understand it, unions paid for buses to bring people to yesterday's event, Beck attendees paid their own way.

But, no matter how many people showed up, the baggers cleaned up after themselves the goons didn't. Nice.