Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

[pirate]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

"The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." -- Chesterton

I work as hard as I can to not fall into either group, professionally or politically...or should I say, not permanently reside in either group.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

well, there were only two ways to solve the issue...what you described and what they enacted so I guess you are right. there are only two ways to solve everything...leave it broken or introduce gigantic government programs with no ability to pay for it.

Mandating that everyone must buy health insurance ≠ introducing gigantic government programs.

I think there are significant shortcomings in what was enacted, but the underlying idea was right. There's plenty of blame to go around for the shortcomings, though I'd lay a lot of it at the feet of a recalcitrant GOP that was more interested in making a political point than in making good policy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I work as hard as I can to not fall into either group, professionally or politically...or should I say, not permanently reside in either group.

I think most intelligent people live between them, as they come to realize Organized Progressivism is a cult and Organized Conservatism is a racket.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I think most intelligent people live between them, as they come to realize Organized Progressivism is a cult and Organized Conservatism is a racket.

I think most people have belief systems that incorporate elements of both (as in advocating helping people with social spending funded by higher taxes on somebody else).

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I think just about all of us are socially liberal in some way, the difference is I think it should be up to me to decide who I should help with my extra money and time, and liberals think they should decide how much I need to give and and whom I should give it...on my behalf

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I think just about all of us are socially liberal in some way, the difference is I think it should be up to me to decide who I should help with my extra money and time, and liberals think they should decide how much I need to give and and whom I should give it...on my behalf

My wife, far more fiscally liberal than I, argues that it all comes down to one question: what are you going to do with people who can't or haven't made it, let them starve? I generally mutter something about strong family and church charitable institutions as an alternative to government coercion and then quickly change the subject to prevent being cut off for a week...

She does have a point, though. Social Darwinism is sexy until people die. Punishing the lazy sounds just until you notice the lazy have children who didn't do anything to deserve punishment.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I think most people have belief systems that incorporate elements of both (as in advocating helping people with social spending funded by higher taxes on somebody else).

Funny that he refers to his own ideology as a cult, though.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Funny that he refers to his own ideology as a cult, though.

That's called self-reflection. I suspect this is a new concept for you.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I'm responding to an assumption that's always made... especially when we're dealing with Rover. Rover believes in the superiority of his elected and bureaucratic betters.

Fact is that health care, like other things, is predicated on the idea that we're too dumb to run ourselves and must be run by somebody smarter than ourselves. Somebody must control the levers in order to create a more perfect social order.

Rover also believes in having a job and contributing to society, something Patman has fallen woefully short on in recent years.

The irony is that the govt is right now paying for the very health care you decry so much.

Moving on, its nice to see some people get it while others want to complain (while on the govt dole for health care) yet offer no other solutions. Individual freedom is a great concept for those who want to game the system. Don't want to pay for insurance? Just go to the ER everytime you have a cold. Don't want to pay for car insurance? No problem, just drive without it. Individual freedom, right? Want to smoke your head off and pass the bills onto everyone else for your unhealthy by choice lifestyle? Why not -when you can't work because you can no longer breath just stick the rest of us with the bills.

The concept is simple, even for conservatives. Either you 1) cut off people from medical care who don't have insurance, or 2) you make those people get insurance and act like adults like the rest of us. As a tax paying, contributing member of society, I prefer the second option. Bad enough my tax dollars go to lazy conservatives in places like South Carolina, West Virginia and Arizona who refuse to work. I'd rather not pay for the health care for the rest of you too.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Although there is definitely a place for Rover's and Red Cloud's off-setting, um, fervency, here is the central problem stated in more boring, less florid prose.

Moral of the story: ownership is important to preserve value, but some things are inherently collectively owned (say, the air, or our liability for emergency room costs) and that means there need to be restrictions on the freedom to use those things.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

A Congressman after USCHO conservatives hearts:

"They want to give all the power to the federal government to force you to eat more fruits and vegetables. This is what the federal, CDC, they gonna be calling you to make sure you eat fruits and vegetables, every day. This is socialism of the highest order!"

-- Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), quoted by Think Progress, discussing some of Washington's "big problems" at a town hall meeting.


Yup, that's right. Da Gubmint's gonna call you up to make sure you're a eatin' youra veggietables. Are you people really this stupid?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

A Congressman after USCHO conservatives hearts:

"They want to give all the power to the federal government to force you to eat more fruits and vegetables. This is what the federal, CDC, they gonna be calling you to make sure you eat fruits and vegetables, every day. This is socialism of the highest order!"

-- Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), quoted by Think Progress, discussing some of Washington's "big problems" at a town hall meeting.


Yup, that's right. Da Gubmint's gonna call you up to make sure you're a eatin' youra veggietables. Are you people really this stupid?

Are you really this dense to think the government won't keep taking more and more control of our lives to "bring down costs" or create more sin taxes on buying things that they don't think we should eat or just outright ban them?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I think just about all of us are socially liberal in some way, the difference is I think it should be up to me to decide who I should help with my extra money and time, and liberals think they should decide how much I need to give and and whom I should give it...on my behalf

On your point, right and left are the same. After all the talk of who spends your money, the right spends it just as quickly, but on different stuff...and regardless of what they say, their policy ends up being socially conservative with an agressive foriegn policy anyways.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Are you really this dense to think the government won't keep taking more and more control of our lives to "bring down costs" or create more sin taxes on buying things that they don't think we should eat or just outright ban them?

Kindly tell me how the govt has taken over more control of your life over the past, lets say, 5 years. What could you do in 2005 that the federal govt no longer allows you to do now?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

On your point, right and left are the same. After all the talk of who spends your money, the right spends it just as quickly, but on different stuff...and regardless of what they say, their policy ends up being socially conservative with an agressive foriegn policy anyways.

I can't argue your point...the problem is that government types want power and they get power buy giving $$$ to those whom elected them. The biggest reason the tea party is gaining so much steam heading towards this election is because anyone that has any sense of fiscal conservatism is sick of it. We want austerity, even if it hurts us personally. We want the federal government to get back to the limited scope that it should be and we want the states to have the power to decide how things within their own state are dealt with. There is little doubt that the republican party has strayed from these views over time in favor or more spending on socially conservative issues and keeping the government big, but in different ways than what liberals want. I'm just saying I disagree with both of the party elite right now.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

Kindly tell me how the govt has taken over more control of your life over the past, lets say, 5 years. What could you do in 2005 that the federal govt no longer allows you to do now?

not have health insurance

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

The irony is that the govt is right now paying for the very health care you decry so much.

I should have learned my lesson years ago, but I'll call this nonsense out once more: "The government" doesn't pay for ANYTHING. Never has, never will. The gov't is unproductive, even counter-productive. Someone, somewhere is supplying that free lunch.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

A good idea.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

I should have learned my lesson years ago, but I'll call this nonsense out once more: "The government" doesn't pay for ANYTHING. Never has, never will. The gov't is unproductive, even counter-productive. Someone, somewhere is supplying that free lunch.

And Rover will never care, as long as it's someone else supplying that free lunch. That doesn't bother him in the slightest.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XVI: Muslin curtains in the White House!!!

A good idea.

The important question is, what exactly is that logo?