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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

The only problem I have with the mosque is that it's far too close to ground zero. I'm with the Governor on this one (which is rare), if the state can find them a place farther uptown, I'm all for it.

It's being put together by total hypocrites, though, as exposed by Greg Gutfeld. He proposed a Muslim themed gay bar (that wouldn't serve alcohol) next door or in the immediate vicinity, and the organizers told him the following on Twitter:

You’re free to open whatever you like. If you won’t consider the sensibilities of Muslims, you’re not going to build dialog

OH, YOU THINK? Notice that we all have to be concerned with the sensibilities of Muslims to build dialog [sic], but they don't have to be concerned with the sensibilities of people around them.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

How many people who actually live in New York City oppose the building of the mosque? Also, whole argument of the thing is framed so stupidly. The mosque is 2 or 3 blocks away from ground zero, there is essentially only one other major mosque in Manhattan that from what I understand is very overcrowded during prayer time so the need is there. And then there is the fact that trying to stop it is completely unconstitutional. Mayor Bloomberg said it very well:



Also, I, who actually live in Manhattan fully support the building of the mosque there.

Well, as a Manhattan resident you should know there are already 7 mosques on the island. Hard to make a credible argument that that number represents some sort of animus against the religion of "peace."

Forgive me, but Mayor Bloomberg is also the clown who suggested that the Times Square bomb plot might have been hatched by a conservative upset with Obamacare. He also was all in favor of having the KSM trial in Manhattan and aside from yourself and a handful of others, overwhelming majorities of folks who live on Manhattan opposed these ridiculous ideas.

There are over 2 thousand mosques in the United States which is 2 thousand more than the number of churches in Saudi Arabia. So let's just shut up about whether opposition to this particular mosque respresents some sort of failure of our dedication to the first amendment. I remember, in the days immediately following 9/11, every NYC religious service I saw on TV featured at least one imam. So this alleged animus to Islam, is IMO, a strawman.

And your implied argument that people in Iowa oppose the mosque but people in Manhattan support it is not only couinter intuitive it is also, pardon me for saying so, ridiculous. And since when is it "unconstitutional" for Americans to express their opinions about a controversial subject and to do what the law permits to prevail? I'm not aware of anyone suggesting violence should be used to stop construction of the mosque. Here's a question: why does this thing have to be built as close as possible to ground zero? Are there no other locations that could be used? In a time of economic downturn are there no other vacant properties available? Please, pull somebody else's leg.

The people behind this project are not telling the truth about the funding source and they're certainly not telling the truth about the purpose of the mosque and its location. Bloomberg is a "useful idiot," and America doesn't need any lectures from him or other "useful idiots" about religious pluralism. We don't publicly hang alleged homosexuals here--but in some Muslim countries that's SOP. We don't stone people to death. We don't cut off the noses of young ladies who stray from orthodoxy in one form or another. We don't encourage young men to commit suicide and to take as many innocent people as possible with them. But all of these horrors and others are part of daily life for millions of Muslims.

So you can preen about your moral superiority (along with village idiot Bloomberg) if you wish, but don't expect the rest of us to agree with you. This mosque is a deliberate thumb in the eye to non Muslim Americans. It is a calculated triumphalist insult and shouldn't be built.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I'm going long on Tinfoil Hat futures in Arizona ...
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

The irony of your post makes me laugh. Thanks.

As smart as you think you are, why is it your principle form of argument is ad hominem? Seems to me that shows a certain weakness. A form of argument generally engaged in by children. Oh well, superior lefties always talk about the right of folks to disagree with them, but they're always amazed when somebody does. Must be a character flaw. That's it.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

ScottM is definitely a raging liberal. So is everybody else to the left of Attila the Hun apparently in Old Pio's little world. :eek: :D
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

In my kids school system, start with 3 guidance counselors and 1 asst counselor. Then look at 16 ed techs. The school has 350 kids. Then look at the administration, way too many folks in the office pushing paper to nowhere.

I'm a little late but...

16 ed techs isn't a lot for 350 kids considering how many kids have behavior problems and basically need a babysitter the entire school day, and it is only going to get worse as more of these rejects reach breeding age.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Then there's tenure, which is basically institutionalized waste. The list goes on and on.

I personally like how a teacher can essentially "retire" at some age (I think 55?) but be immediately "hired" back by the same school in the same position. This allows them to begin collecting their pension AND still get paid a salary. Happened here in Maine at my old high school several years ago and I believe I've heard of another such case somewhere nationally within the last 6-12 months. (I'll give my school credit, they told him no, they would not keep him on if he retired, but alas, the school right across the river immediately hired him).

Gotta love double-dipping! Is there anywhere in the private sector you can do that? If so, let me know, I'll polish up my resume. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I personally like how a teacher can essentially "retire" at some age (I think 55?) but be immediately "hired" back by the same school in the same position. This allows them to begin collecting their pension AND still get paid a salary. Happened here in Maine at my old high school several years ago and I believe I've heard of another such case somewhere nationally within the last 6-12 months. (I'll give my school credit, they told him no, they would not keep him on if he retired, but alas, the school right across the river immediately hired him).

Gotta love double-dipping! Is there anywhere in the private sector you can do that? If so, let me know, I'll polish up my resume. :rolleyes:

It's done in both the private and public sectors. Some people like to hold public sector workers to a different standard than private sector workers though. At the agency I work at, I've known a good number of people who retire from the private sector, then come work for us, while collecting their private pension. And given their higher age, and that government pension plans favor those come in late, it doesn't take very long for them to qualify for a government pension plan. If anything, that's a worse abuse than someone who put in a load of years working for government, retire, and then seek further work in their field.

Really, I've never understood why people get such a bee in their bonnet on this though. Better to have someone who has a lot to still offer back in the work force, contributing, rather than sitting around doing nothing. Would it be a problem if they are collecting their pension, and get employment somewhere else?
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

It's done in both the private and public sectors. Some people like to hold public sector workers to a different standard than private sector workers though. At the agency I work at, I've known a good number of people who retire from the private sector, then come work for us, while collecting their private pension. And given their higher age, and that government pension plans favor those come in late, it doesn't take very long for them to qualify for a government pension plan. If anything, that's a worse abuse than someone who put in a load of years working for government, retire, and then seek further work in their field.

Really, I've never understood why people get such a bee in their bonnet on this though. Better to have someone who has a lot to still offer back in the work force, contributing, rather than sitting around doing nothing. Would it be a problem if they are collecting their pension, and get employment somewhere else?

Most likely because it's public money vs private money funding both the pension and the position?

Further, I guess you could argue that fine, if they're going to "retire" they shouldn't be allowed just to be handed the job back (as was with the national case, not the local). After all, usually pay and benefits account for a large, if not majority of costs on an annual operating basis for most institutions. Therefore, a younger teacher coming in at a lower salary could potentially save at least *some* money. And I'm not advocating age discrimination, I'm just saying make them enter the candidate pool like everyone else.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

It's done in both the private and public sectors. Some people like to hold public sector workers to a different standard than private sector workers though. At the agency I work at, I've known a good number of people who retire from the private sector, then come work for us, while collecting their private pension. And given their higher age, and that government pension plans favor those come in late, it doesn't take very long for them to qualify for a government pension plan. If anything, that's a worse abuse than someone who put in a load of years working for government, retire, and then seek further work in their field.

Really, I've never understood why people get such a bee in their bonnet on this though. Better to have someone who has a lot to still offer back in the work force, contributing, rather than sitting around doing nothing. Would it be a problem if they are collecting their pension, and get employment somewhere else?

Most of the retire-rehires I know about only did it for a few years, and it was because a rural school district was having trouble filling administrative positions so they brought the retired administrators back either part time or on a yearly contract. I don't think it is a widespread problem. Both my parents retired a few years ago after ~35 years in the teaching profession and have no plans to go back. They made it to their early 60s. I know several of their co-workers got burned out and retired earlier and took a pretty big early-retirement penalty for their pension with no plans to double dip.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Well, I see your point. But consider the fact that there are over 2,000 mosques already in the country. Hard to make the point of religious intolerance under those circumstances, especially when there are zero churches in Saudi Arabia.

But that is a false argument (as made famous by Newt the hypocrit not attacking you) because Saudi Arabia doesn't practice religious freedom as a right and we do. By definition we should be better than them, not using them to justify our actions ya know?
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

But that is a false argument (as made famous by Newt the hypocrit not attacking you) because Saudi Arabia doesn't practice religious freedom as a right and we do. By definition we should be better than them, not using them to justify our actions ya know?

Handy, what has gotten into you lately? Another rational post. ;)

Exactly right. According to Old Newt Pio, we're supposed to hold ourselves to the same standard as Saudi Arabia. Great, but no thanks.

The other nonsensical idea out of this thread was to build the mosque and then build a guy Muslim club next door. :confused: Is it the gubmint that's supposed to be doing this? Because I'm not sure what the market might be for something like that (although I'll let the poster who proposed it - Red Cloud I believe, answer that one :eek: :cool: ).
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

As smart as you think you are, why is it your principle form of argument is ad hominem? Seems to me that shows a certain weakness. A form of argument generally engaged in by children. Oh well, superior lefties always talk about the right of folks to disagree with them, but they're always amazed when somebody does. Must be a character flaw. That's it.

The King of Irony strikes again. (Emphasis added).
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

The other nonsensical idea out of this thread was to build the mosque and then build a guy Muslim club next door. :confused: Is it the gubmint that's supposed to be doing this? Because I'm not sure what the market might be for something like that (although I'll let the poster who proposed it - Red Cloud I believe, answer that one :eek: :cool: ).

No, of course there isn't a market for that sort of thing. However, if Muslims are all about building dialogue, they should be totally cool with it right? That's the point the Gutfield was trying to make.
 
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