Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

No, of course there isn't a market for that sort of thing. However, if Muslims are all about building dialogue, they should be totally cool with it right? That's the point the Gutfield was trying to make.

And I don't know what Rover was talking about with the "gubmint" being involved with it, but his mind is so rotten and obsessed with the government doing everything that I'm not surprised by anything <strike>he says</strike> people quote him as saying anymore.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

If I'm not mistaken, the people trying to build the mosque in NYC near Ground Zero don't need the public input at all to build their mosque. They could start building it tomorrow if they want to but they chose to ask the public about it, did they not? Therefore they are opening up a dialog?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I personally like how a teacher can essentially "retire" at some age (I think 55?) but be immediately "hired" back by the same school in the same position. This allows them to begin collecting their pension AND still get paid a salary. Happened here in Maine at my old high school several years ago and I believe I've heard of another such case somewhere nationally within the last 6-12 months. (I'll give my school credit, they told him no, they would not keep him on if he retired, but alas, the school right across the river immediately hired him).

Gotta love double-dipping! Is there anywhere in the private sector you can do that? If so, let me know, I'll polish up my resume.

Ridiculous - and associated with tenure.

Tenure also protects bad teachers who manage to attain it. They can't be fired, so students end up on the short end of the stick being "educated" by them. The system practically encourages it. If you didn't have to worry about losing your job, would you go the extra mile? Would you give 110% every day? Why would you?

Heck, even tenured teachers who they HAVE to remove from the classroom, especially in the cities, still end up getting paid in full. They get stuck in these "rubber rooms" where they solve crossword puzzles for eight hours and go home with their paycheck every other Thursday. You think THAT education money could be better spent? Oh, no, no, of course not. If it's for the teachers, it's for the students, remember?

Rover and his type will see all of these instances of waste and corruption in education that we've outlined for him, and we'll continue to get the LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANTI-EDUCATION KNUCKLEDRAGGERS LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA routine.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

If I'm not mistaken, the people trying to build the mosque in NYC near Ground Zero don't need the public input at all to build their mosque. They could start building it tomorrow if they want to but they chose to ask the public about it, did they not? Therefore they are opening up a dialog?

There are a lot of people who are just uncomfortable with it for a number of reasons - not the least of which are the name (Cordoba being the name of the capital of Moorish Spain, where Muslims built a massive mosque in celebration of their conquest), the location (600 feet away from Ground Zero, debris from one of the airplanes severely damaged the building in that location), and the timing (construction is planned to begin on September 11, 2011, the 10th anniversary, which happens to be a Sunday).

Throw in the fact that the 9/11 attacks were undertaken by Muslims in the name of their faith (as screwed up as their views on that faith may be), and it can be understood why this mosque would make some people uncomfortable. But that doesn't matter, apparently, because those people are just bigots. That's the most common response.

But Gutfeld announces a plan for a Muslim-themed gay club nearby, and the organizers say that would make them uncomfortable. Hmm. How about that.

It wouldn't be OK for an evangelical Christian preacher to build a mega-church next to an abortion clinic where a faith-inspired doctor shooting took place, right? Wouldn't that be insensitive? Why is this OK?

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

No, of course there isn't a market for that sort of thing. However, if Muslims are all about building dialogue, they should be totally cool with it right? That's the point the Gutfield was trying to make.

But its a hypothetical and nonsensical point unless there's an actual proposal to build one. Say the mosque answered "that would be okay with us" to this proposal. What's the first thing the 'knucks would say? I'm guessing it would be "oh, they're just saying that because there's no actual proposal on the table".

Moving on, for someone on his ignore list, Red Cloud sure likes to write about me. How does he even know what I'm writing if he can't read any of it? Is he psychic? psycho?

However, I will answer his dumb, stereotypical, boogeyman of the day "double dipping teachers". This was already shot down but I'll give yet another example. In my office a couple had retired, but were called back later on as consultants for a sale due to their expertise and familiarity with the group. Yes, they were "double dipping" technically but nobody questioned the wisdom of asking them to fill the role and we were all happy to have them back for a little bit. This is in the private sector business world. I can see the same thing happening in the case of a teacher shortage. I'd ask Red Cloud to produce evidence of these rubber room, crossword puzzle solving paid ex teachers, but I suspect he occupies a rubber room himself, on the taxpayers' dime no less, so I think I'll let this one slide.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

But its a hypothetical and nonsensical point unless there's an actual proposal to build one. Say the mosque answered "that would be okay with us" to this proposal. What's the first thing the 'knucks would say? I'm guessing it would be "oh, they're just saying that because there's no actual proposal on the table".

Moving on, for someone on his ignore list, Red Cloud sure likes to write about me. How does he even know what I'm writing if he can't read any of it? Is he psychic? psycho?

However, I will answer his dumb, stereotypical, boogeyman of the day "double dipping teachers". This was already shot down but I'll give yet another example. In my office a couple had retired, but were called back later on as consultants for a sale due to their expertise and familiarity with the group. Yes, they were "double dipping" technically but nobody questioned the wisdom of asking them to fill the role and we were all happy to have them back for a little bit. This is in the private sector business world. I can see the same thing happening in the case of a teacher shortage. I'd ask Red Cloud to produce evidence of these rubber room, crossword puzzle solving paid ex teachers, but I suspect he occupies a rubber room himself, on the taxpayers' dime no less, so I think I'll let this one slide.

Well you want another example of this, my buddy the teacher in rural wisconsin completed all of the appropriate classes and got his masters so that he could be a principal. He lost the job to a person who had grown up in that rural town and retired from her principal position in another school district. She was able to beat him out for the job because she agreed to take an average salary and no benefits because she was getting medical and pension from the other position. Now obviously this isn't an example of bringing her in because there is a shortage. My friend was not the only person rejected for the position.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Moving on, for someone on his ignore list, Red Cloud sure likes to write about me. How does he even know what I'm writing if he can't read any of it? Is he psychic? psycho?

I think that you can see quoted posts of people on your ignore list despite the fact you cannot see the originals (provided that the person quoting the post is not also on the ignore list).

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Rover asks, Rover gets, even if Rover isn't going to want to believe it.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...veals-Teachers-Paid-For-Nothing-90804024.html

Rubber rooms. Where taxpayers spend 30 million bucks a year so teachers can do absolutely nothing.

Or, those teachers-- accused of misconduct-- can sleep, goof off, or work out. At full pay.

Sound ridiculous? A new documentary, "The Rubber Room," from filmmakers Justin Cegnar and Jeremy Garrett, is stone-cold serious about the subject.

"To me the thing that's most shocking," says Cegnar, "is how long people can spend there. You can spend five years or ten years-- a decade in the rubber room at full salary."

Oh, and even though it's blatantly obvious, I'll answer it anyway since Rover roughly has the IQ of a 10-year-old's shoe size - when others quote him, I see what he says even though he's on ignore. It sucks, but it happens. But I do so enjoy living rent-free in his mind nonetheless (it's so spacious!).

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Well you want another example of this, my buddy the teacher in rural wisconsin completed all of the appropriate classes and got his masters so that he could be a principal. He lost the job to a person who had grown up in that rural town and retired from her principal position in another school district. She was able to beat him out for the job because she agreed to take an average salary and no benefits because she was getting medical and pension from the other position. Now obviously this isn't an example of bringing her in because there is a shortage. My friend was not the only person rejected for the position.

This seems like a tough one to me. Obviously, this older woman is coming out ahead, so maybe that rubs people the wrong way. But if I was a taxpayer in the school district in question, I'd stand up and applaud them for making the move. Because haven't they saved themselves money here?

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

The only problem I have with the mosque is that it's far too close to ground zero. I'm with the Governor on this one (which is rare), if the state can find them a place farther uptown, I'm all for it.

How close is too close?

What legal mechanism would you use to regulate such decision?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

This seems like a tough one to me. Obviously, this older woman is coming out ahead, so maybe that rubs people the wrong way. But if I was a taxpayer in the school district in question, I'd stand up and applaud them for making the move. Because haven't they saved themselves money here?

That was my first thought as well. Schools are being constantly bombarded with demands to save money. Sounds like this school did just that. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

This feels strange. I'm on the same side as Rover!

The rubber room issue, which I've heard of, has no nexus with the question of someone putting in their years, retiring, and then coming back in some capacity to do some further work. If it's a job that someone has to fill, the retired person should have the same shot at it as anyone else. And given their likely qualifications and experience, they would probably tend to be very solid candidates, if they did a good job before. To exclude them is just sour grapes, and would seem to even possibly violate some sort of equal access or non-discrimination law.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

That was my first thought as well. Schools are being constantly bombarded with demands to save money. Sounds like this school did just that. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

spend less or less increases per year. education spending has increased from $11k per student in 2004 to $17k in 2009. And it's not just our city. I think ASD teacher salary range is $42k to $80k. I believe the school super got a raise of 20% this year to $300k+ ... because she got record school bond proposals passed.

Red cloud you can vote your school board out and have a different contract with the teachers union. same easy solution to the excessive executive pay.

http://www.adn.com/2009/03/22/732760/school-budget-seeks-tax-cap-maximum.html

State money is the district's biggest single revenue source. Local property taxes are second, and pay for about 30 percent of the school budget annually. District records show the overall budget has grown from about $426 million in the 2000-2001 fiscal year to $572 million in 2005-2006 and to $737 million in the current school year. The portion supported by local taxpayers has gone up from $127 million in 2000-2001 to $218 million this year.

Different school in NY
http://newcastle-citizensforresponsibleeducation.org/

The Chappaqua School Budget has risen from $57 million in 2000-01 to $107 million in 2009-10, an increase of 86%
#

Enrollment in 2000 was 3898 and was 4187 in 2009-10, an increase of 7%
#

Cost per student was $14,803 in 2000-01 and was $25,638 in 2009-10, an increase of 73%
#
The current average CCSD teachers salary is $104,000 (per CCSD Admin) before benefits

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

There are a lot of people who are just uncomfortable with it for a number of reasons - not the least of which are the name (Cordoba being the name of the capital of Moorish Spain, where Muslims built a massive mosque in celebration of their conquest), the location (600 feet away from Ground Zero, debris from one of the airplanes severely damaged the building in that location), and the timing (construction is planned to begin on September 11, 2011, the 10th anniversary, which happens to be a Sunday).

Throw in the fact that the 9/11 attacks were undertaken by Muslims in the name of their faith (as screwed up as their views on that faith may be), and it can be understood why this mosque would make some people uncomfortable. But that doesn't matter, apparently, because those people are just bigots. That's the most common response.

But Gutfeld announces a plan for a Muslim-themed gay club nearby, and the organizers say that would make them uncomfortable. Hmm. How about that.

It wouldn't be OK for an evangelical Christian preacher to build a mega-church next to an abortion clinic where a faith-inspired doctor shooting took place, right? Wouldn't that be insensitive? Why is this OK?

Greg Gutfeld is hilarious. His show is great.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Different school in NY

The Chappaqua School Budget has risen from $57 million in 2000-01 to $107 million in 2009-10, an increase of 86%
#

Enrollment in 2000 was 3898 and was 4187 in 2009-10, an increase of 7%
#

Cost per student was $14,803 in 2000-01 and was $25,638 in 2009-10, an increase of 73%
#
The current average CCSD teachers salary is $104,000 (per CCSD Admin) before benefits

http://newcastle-citizensforresponsibleeducation.org/

There's wasteful spending in many places. But just because we see increases like this doesn't mean that this is due to poor educational standards.

Chappaqua is a town where income averages six figures...ie very wealthy. This issue links into the who gets taxed and to what extent discussion. If residents pay signicant taxes...do they deserve siginifantly more resources for their schools? In Chappaqua, they would say so and they do. Do we cut govt services for the affluent because there's more funds there to cut? Its a judgement call.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

This feels strange. I'm on the same side as Rover!

The rubber room issue, which I've heard of, has no nexus with the question of someone putting in their years, retiring, and then coming back in some capacity to do some further work. If it's a job that someone has to fill, the retired person should have the same shot at it as anyone else. And given their likely qualifications and experience, they would probably tend to be very solid candidates, if they did a good job before. To exclude them is just sour grapes, and would seem to even possibly violate some sort of equal access or non-discrimination law.

Thanks Bob. Feels good, doesn't it?

Red Cloud's example has nothing to do with the stereotypical tenured teachers who can't be fired. What he's talking about is teachers who were accused of wrongdoing and who are pulled out of class pending the investigation to see if the accusations are true. File this under the "innocent until proven guilty" scenario. It wouldn't be fair to suspend them without pay because some attention seeking kid claims something that isn't true. However, you also can't have them in the classroom either. While this isn't the best use of school funds, again what is the solution? Firing teachers every time some kid makes an accusation? There won't be any teachers left.

More to the point, this exposes the craven deception of Red Cloud and his ilk. His implication is these teachers were fired for incompetence but still get paid because of the union, tenure, etc. They're still getting paid while the investigation is on going, no different than how cops might get taken off duty with pay after an incident that requires further investigation.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I recall seeing an article awhile back on the system in New York for teachers who were removed, but were awaiting appeals and the rest of the review process. My recollection is that the process was incredibly slow, resulting in teachers at times sitting in these rubber rooms for years on end.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

My recollection is that the process was incredibly slow, resulting in teachers at times sitting in these rubber rooms for years on end.

What happened to due process?

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I wouldn't chalk this up to "waste" although they can certainly look at speeding up the process. I do wonder if this is dictated by possible legal action, as in somebody threatens to file suit against the teacher. What do you do as a school system administrator in that case? Fire the teacher without any evidence (and I imagine there's a good amount of false accusations but some true ones too)? Let someone accused of hitting or banging a student back in class? There's no good answers here, but its not incompetence or unions lining their pockets. Civil suits take forever to even get a hearing, let alone a resolution. IMHO its logical that this is what's keeping these teachers in limbo.

Oh, and Red Cloud should really step up to the plate here and explain his deception on this issue. A blatant attempt to mislead in the hopes that people weren't familiar with the story or wouldn't read it. Its people like this that give conservatives a bad name.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

How close is too close?

They seriously can't find a way to get even 1/8 of a mile away? I'd say "out of the neighborhood" would be fine.

What legal mechanism would you use to regulate such decision?

Who said anything about a legal mechanism?