Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

[SteveF]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Have some absurdity from Beck.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201008200021

so the african slave trade, which was essentially a global economy for hundreds of years before its eventual global abolishment during darwin's lifetime, was still somehow caused by his theories of evolution (1859)? brilliant.

i suppose that is one way to drive up support for the banning of evolution in schools.

beck is popular because his target audience is so widely uneducated that they cant even connect simple dots. his story telling seems to fill in all the gaps so that the un-informed can just take everything he says as gospel. sad really.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Tim's done a great job during a really bad time...

I disagree, but that is just my opinion. (I dont see eye to eye with a lot of people politically sometimes but that is cool by me ) I would be more supportive of him in the general if I didnt think he was completely spineless and full of crap. As soon as the GOP leadership tells him to jump he will yell "how high!!" and that is not what I want out of a president. Sure he is railing against Washington now, he is not part of it. Once he is he will flip flop faster than a democrat on speed.

To me he is Obama only for the GOP. Whats worse is if Karl Rove comes calling he will be on his knees Jenna Jameson style

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

To me he is Obama only for the GOP. Whats worse is if Karl Rove comes calling he will be on his knees Jenna Jameson style

Now Jenna Jameson is a candidate I could see myself getting behind. This thread gets more interesting every day.

 

[Slap Shot]

Is it really that hard to understand how US actions might **** someone else off? There are literally millions of instances just like this in everyday life for you to draw on.

Not to the tune waging a friggin holy war and calling for the death of everyone that does not share their faith. They can paint the US as the biggest boogeyman on the planet if they want to and it doesn't justify nor make me remotely comprehend the stance of jihad. I can get on board with their anger, I cannot get on board with 9/11, the London tube attack, the Yemen attack, suicide terrorists and everything else they choose to employ to advance their cause. Believe it or not, Osama Bin Laden does not want to have a dialogue with you, he wants to slit your throat.

btw - don't mistake my "they" for referring to most Muslims. As someone that lived there for a year I have nothing but admiration for the vast majority of people I met in the Middle East - many of which I'm still incontact with 14 years since I left. My comments refer to many of those in charge that continue to do everything in their power to create anything but peace.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Not to the tune waging a friggin holy war and calling for the death of everyone that does not share their faith. They can paint the US as the biggest boogeyman on the planet if they want to and it doesn't justify nor make me remotely comprehend the stance of jihad. I can get on board with their anger, I cannot get on board with 9/11, the London tube attack, the Yemen attack, suicide terrorists and everything else they choose to employ to advance their cause. Believe it or not, Osama Bin Laden does not want to have a dialogue with you, he wants to slit your throat.

btw - don't mistake my "they" for referring to most Muslims. As someone that lived there for a year I have nothing but admiration for the vast majority of people I met in the Middle East - many of which I'm still incontact with 14 years since I left. My comments refer to many of those in charge that continue to do everything in their power to create anything but peace.

But you don't see how that kind of dislike and antagonism provides an opportunity for the Bin Ladens of the world to make their pitch, recruit and brainwash their pawns?

Again, I don't know why you put the word 'justify' in there - I certainly haven't used it as any sort of moral justification - but it is a key element in understanding why these things happen. I'll hearken back to "three cups of tea," where the Americans that spend time in Afghanistan and Pakistan argue that the single best weapon we have against terrorism is education. The wahhabist schools prey on those that are uneducated, they recruit them and fill them with hate - but the seed of that hate is planted when Americans end up carpet bombing their village in an effort to kill Bin Laden.

Is that effort wrong? Maybe not, but it really shouldn't be too hard to understand the consequences of those actions. I thought French Rage's earlier analogy of the Treaty of Versailles was spot on - were the Allies wrong to put such harsh conditions on Germany after WWI? Probably not. But did that punishment open the door for Hitler's rise to power? Absolutely.

Bin Laden probably does want to slit my throat. But that's not the point. He's not going to be the one doing the cutting. And if our efforts to kill him end up harming civilians, then all we've done is add further reason for some little kid to hate us - hate that Bin Laden can exploit.

Bin Laden doesn't want dialogue with me, you're right about that. But you mistake my position to think that I want dialogue with him and his ilk. I do not. I do want to reach out to those that he would recruit, those that he would exploit. That's where the real battle is, and it's not about guns and bombs. Like the counter-insurgency strategy, it's about winning the hearts and minds, providing educational opportunities for kids, etc.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I just hope we see someone with a generally positive and pragmatic attitude of McCain or a potential presidentinator. You can criticize policy without slamming people. I see that as the future Gingrich would bring.

I think MN is doing ok...and I don't blame TPaw for any situation in the state. I just see him dabbling a bit too much on the social side of conservatism for my liking...I've seen him a bit as he goes to my church. But I was really not a fan of him brining conceal and carry to the state...and increasing the chance I get shot at while driving on 394.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I just hope we see someone with a generally positive and pragmatic attitude of McCain or a potential presidentinator. You can criticize policy without slamming people. I see that as the future Gingrich would bring.

I think MN is doing ok...and I don't blame TPaw for any situation in the state. I just see him dabbling a bit too much on the social side of conservatism for my liking...I've seen him a bit as he goes to my church. But I was really not a fan of him brining conceal and carry to the state...and increasing the chance I get shot at while driving on 394.

Wow, really? Its nice to see you understand the point of the law or the typical results of such a law. Besides, those kinds of things are happening at a state level. Its really hard to know what a governor would really push for at the federal level, especially someone that believes in federalism, since that basically means most things should be left to the states.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Don't you have to have a permit in Minnie to carry a concealed weapon? How many people have been shot by permitted folks?

 

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Don't you have to have a permit in Minnie to carry a concealed weapon? How many people have been shot by permitted folks?

Hundreds. You practically need to be encased in kevlar to dare drive the 394 gauntlet.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Hundreds. You practically need to be encased in kevlar to dare drive the 394 gauntlet.

No wonder there is a Kevlar shortage

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

But you don't see how that kind of dislike and antagonism provides an opportunity for the Bin Ladens of the world to make their pitch, recruit and brainwash their pawns?

Again, I don't know why you put the word 'justify' in there - I certainly haven't used it as any sort of moral justification - but it is a key element in understanding why these things happen. I'll hearken back to "three cups of tea," where the Americans that spend time in Afghanistan and Pakistan argue that the single best weapon we have against terrorism is education. The wahhabist schools prey on those that are uneducated, they recruit them and fill them with hate - but the seed of that hate is planted when Americans end up carpet bombing their village in an effort to kill Bin Laden.

Is that effort wrong? Maybe not, but it really shouldn't be too hard to understand the consequences of those actions. I thought French Rage's earlier analogy of the Treaty of Versailles was spot on - were the Allies wrong to put such harsh conditions on Germany after WWI? Probably not. But did that punishment open the door for Hitler's rise to power? Absolutely.

Bin Laden probably does want to slit my throat. But that's not the point. He's not going to be the one doing the cutting. And if our efforts to kill him end up harming civilians, then all we've done is add further reason for some little kid to hate us - hate that Bin Laden can exploit.

Bin Laden doesn't want dialogue with me, you're right about that. But you mistake my position to think that I want dialogue with him and his ilk. I do not. I do want to reach out to those that he would recruit, those that he would exploit. That's where the real battle is, and it's not about guns and bombs. Like the counter-insurgency strategy, it's about winning the hearts and minds, providing educational opportunities for kids, etc.

The WWI analogy was perfect IMHO.

There is no justification for their hatred and attacks, but the actions of the US has definitely been a catalyst right or wrong.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I just hope we see someone with a generally positive and pragmatic attitude of McCain or a potential presidentinator.

Pragmatic? McCain? To me, that's a nice way of saying flip-flopper. He goes whichever way the political winds are blowing.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Pragmatic? McCain? To me, that's a nice way of saying flip-flopper. He goes whichever way the political winds are blowing.

We disagree. No its not black and white...but the ability to change positions under radically different scenarios and completely new information shows your not a dolt. Its a trait conservatives don't seem to appreciate.

I don't think McCain was perfect...but he is GOP and not a mindless Fox mouthpiece.

Don't you have to have a permit in Minnie to carry a concealed weapon? How many people have been shot by permitted folks?

Too many.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

We disagree. No its not black and white...but the ability to change positions under radically different scenarios and completely new information shows your not a dolt. Its a trait conservatives don't seem to appreciate.

I don't think McCain was perfect...but he is GOP and not a mindless Fox mouthpiece.



Too many.

Hey look! It's a picture of you dodging all those stray bullets during that 394 commute of yours!

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

We disagree. No its not black and white...but the ability to change positions under radically different scenarios and completely new information shows your not a dolt. Its a trait conservatives don't seem to appreciate.

I don't think McCain was perfect...but he is GOP and not a mindless Fox mouthpiece.



Too many.

Yeah...2 people have died in the state of minnesota that were linked to conceal carry permits. both incidents, a murder and a suicide (not a murder/suicide) happen in the individual's home so the permit really wasn't relevant, because we as americans do have the right to own a gun and keep it in our own home. but you want to make it sound like conceal carry is a horrible idea, you go right ahead.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Yeah...2 people have died in the state of minnesota that were linked to conceal carry permits. both incidents, a murder and a suicide (not a murder/suicide) happen in the individual's home so the permit really wasn't relevant, because we as americans do have the right to own a gun and keep it in our own home. but you want to make it sound like conceal carry is a horrible idea, you go right ahead.

Stop bothering him with facts. He's already busy strapping up and locking down for that Monday commute on 394.

Edit: Hope he doesn't forget the boot knife.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Pragmatic? McCain? To me, that's a nice way of saying flip-flopper. He goes whichever way the political winds are blowing.

What...just because he embraced the man who spread lies about him having a black child out of wedlock in southern states doesn't mean he is a flip flopper. Just because he started pandering to the Religious Right to secure his nomination whereas before he never felt the need to doesnt make him a flip flopper. Just because he ran an entire campaign about being a Maverick and then two months ago said he never considered himself a Maverick doesn't mean he is a flip flopper.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Uh oh. I think the mosque builders are in trouble - their opposition got themselves a theme song. A theme song, I tell you! Oooh - it's getting serious now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w&feature=player_embedded#!

(When my friend posted this link I really, really thought that it was going to be a parody. Boy was I disappointed.)

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Yeah...2 people have died in the state of minnesota that were linked to conceal carry permits. both incidents, a murder and a suicide (not a murder/suicide) happen in the individual's home so the permit really wasn't relevant, because we as americans do have the right to own a gun and keep it in our own home. but you want to make it sound like conceal carry is a horrible idea, you go right ahead.

2 is too many but I wonder how many have been murdered with a knife? Do you need a permit to carry a knife in Minnesota?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

We disagree. No its not black and white...but the ability to change positions under radically different scenarios and completely new information shows your not a dolt. Its a trait conservatives don't seem to appreciate.

Yes, I can appreciate that. However, the "radically different scenarios" that you refer to seem to go by the name of "elections" in McCain's book.

Look at the border issue. A few years back, he's adamant that a border fence is a bad idea. Now, because he's facing a tough election fight, he's running commercials touting how he wants to "complete the danged fence".

That's hardly pragmatic.