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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

dxmnkd316 said:
Right, and none of them gained wide approval. At least not in my political lifetime.
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Well someone keeps voting for them. In my mind, people can hate the Governor all they want as long as my taxes aren't raised.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

sagard said:
They look as strong as the Dems in '04.
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You mean when they ran that aloof aristocratic guy.... what was his name... oh, right... Barack Obama... shoot... my fault, that was '08.... John Kerry was '04. Who are you guys running in '12 again?
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

WeWantMore said:
I would be shocked if Gingrich and Romney didn't run. I'd guess Huckabee will give it another shot. I think Palin is probably 50/50 right now. Paul supposedly has indicated he will. Rick Santorum is another name that has strangely been gaining momentum.

It's tough to see a winner not coming from those first four in my mind.
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The Dems can only hope. The only one of those six with even a remote chance of beating Obama would be Romney (by far the best of that rotten bunch), and he may not be able to win the nomination for various wingnut reasons ("not a Christian," health care, blah blah blah). Paul couldn't win either the nomination -- for obvious reasons -- or the general -- for equally obvious but all the wrong reasons.

Of course, if the economy picks up between now and then none of them has the slightest chance. If the economy worsens significantly the GOP nominee should have a good chance unless he or she is a complete ****tard (see the choices above, again except for Romney), in which case you get Kerry Redux and a big blown chance.

Gingrich -- too much baggage and his act gets old fast
Romney -- very tough if the realists can get him through, maybe with Jindal as VP to satisfy the eejits
Huckster -- too stupid, even by post-Dubya standards, and anyway too crazy
Palin -- our national (now international) joke
Paul -- good God that would be a great election, but the GOP would implode
Santorum -- even stupider and crazier than Huckleberry, and less charisma than an iguana with diarrhea.

Quite the dream team there. Throw in Jindal and 6 of the 7 are significantly less electable than George McGovern.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

UMDbulldogs#1 said:
Well someone keeps voting for them. In my mind, people can hate the Governor all they want as long as my taxes aren't raised.
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I think Arne Carlson is pretty widely respected in Minnesota. He always seems pretty reasonable on the radio. Pawlenty is a pretty good guy as well. He actually seems willing to fight to the bone about a budget, I respect that.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

sagard said:
Sorry don't know you and I don't call people I don't know racist.



Sorry again I missed your question. Your 100% right, I don't care about social conservatives values. Had the "W" regime acted responsibly, McCain would have likely been able to pick the next two Supreme Court Justices. Not sure how that would have gone, but I'm guessing you might have liked them better.

As for fiscal conservatives. You find me one and they will have my vote. No questions asked.



If I'm taken out, I hope they are brought to justice. If it turns out it was a cell planted by al Qaeda, I hope we go after them with precision and lots of clandestine services. After witnessing our war machine and reading how they were basically hamstrung from the beginning by our rules of engagement I don't want additional wars, no matter what they do to me. As for Palin, come on. Does she really matter?



His response was lame and weak obviously. He either should have taken the high road like he initially tried to and absorbed the heat from the 70-75% who oppose it. Or he should have acknowledged there were lots of better places for it and moved on. Pelosi and Reid have successfully reminded everyone why the Dems are hopeless. Good on them.

I think our main difference is that you see Obama as someone who can singlehandedly cause our country problems. I see him as a great reminder to our slightly more conservative party as to what will happen when they don't act in our country's best interest.
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Well, those responses put a different focus on it as far as I'm concerned. We have a weak executive by design. And you're right, the election of Obama just gave the esoteric flora and fauna in the Demcrat party carte blanche to engage their most cherished power grabs and intrusions into our lives. Look at how he handled "health care": he basically punted it to congress and said he'd sign whatever they passed.

One of the real problems we have in this country (for which I have no solution) is the "iron triangle" of lawmakers, lobbyists and the constituents who benefit from spending programs. Often Republicns who pose as fiscals get to Washington and go native. What George Will calls a two year foraging mission for federal dollars. Libs have no such identity problems, they plan to spend as much as they can on favored groups and make no bones about it. You can decide for yourself which is worse.

Personally, I'm always saying "thank God" under my breath every time I hear a progressive lamenting "grid lock."

"West Wing" was one of my all time favorite programs because Jed Bartlett was a perfect president, responsible liberal at home and a major league azz kicker overseas. Remember one story arc where he put out a hit on the prime minister of an ally when he learned the guy was a terrorist. Ba-da-bing. Now that's a president I could support whole heartedly.

With few exceptions, the general level of our campaigns borders on what you'd expect in middle school student council races. This year, for instance, you hear candidates talking about "professional politicians,": my opponant is one, I'm not. Certainly some folks get a pocket borough seat in congress and that becomes an end in itself.

On the other hand, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Teddy Roosevelt and others were also "professional politicians."

Anyway, foreign and defense policy has always been first on my list. Any congress can undo what a previous congress has done (although Democrats have put provisions in Obamacare which they think will make that impossible, we'll see) so I believe most excesses can be corrected.

However, in defense and foreign policy, it seems like Democrats just don't get it and haven't, at least since the end of the Vietnam war. During that war protestors regularly showed up waving Viet Cong and Vietnam flags. Now many of those folks are in congress or tenured professors or burrowed into various foundations (see the president's friend, Bill Ayers).

They don't like assertions of American power and they don't like the military that carries out those policies. On those occasions when they support use of power, they abandon ship at the first bump in the road. They are generally members of the "Blame America First" crowd. It took Susan Sontag about 72 hours to blame America for 9/11. Ward Churchill about the same.

So those are the things that are uppermost in my mind when voting for president. That's why John McCain got my vote. I just don't see him groveling before Middle East despots and shrinking back from using force when force is indicated. And I certainly don't see him apologizing for America, especially in a foreign country.

It seems as though I may have misjudged you. On the passive, assertive, aggressive continuum I sometimes skip over assertive and get right to aggressive. Not my best character trait.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

sagard said:
I think Arne Carlson is pretty widely respected in Minnesota. He always seems pretty reasonable on the radio. Pawlenty is a pretty good guy as well. He actually seems willing to fight to the bone about a budget, I respect that.
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Arne was pretty left for a Republican, so that didn't hurt things.
 
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Old Pio said:
Adlai Stevenson picked John Sparkman of Alabama, did that make him a segregationist? Fritz Mondale picked Geraldine Ferraro, did that make him a mobster?
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Those guys did well in their respective elections also
So all of this rhetoric is about you not liking Sarah Palin? And her selection makes McCain as Liberal as Obama? And that choice was mandated by some guys in a black helicopter, getting radio messages from the grassy knoll? Makes sense to me. Sorry I brought it up.
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Her selection didn't make him as liberal as Obama, he already was:D

He may have been stronger on Foreign Policy and I doubt he would have bowed down to anyone but he would p!$$ away money just like the rest.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

sagard said:
I think Arne Carlson is pretty widely respected in Minnesota. He always seems pretty reasonable on the radio. Pawlenty is a pretty good guy as well. He actually seems willing to fight to the bone about a budget, I respect that.
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Carlson might be the most centrist governor MN has had or will ever have.

MN is screwed after this fall's election. Both Dayton and Emmer look like awful picks to lead the state, and the IP candidate isn't a minor celeb like Ventura was, so he won't win. :p
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Bakunin said:
MN is screwed after this fall's election. Both Dayton and Emmer look like awful picks to lead the state, and the IP candidate isn't a minor celeb like Ventura was, so he won't win. :p
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Steroids ensure term limits.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

geezer said:
I think Mitch Daniels can take a better run at the nomination than any of the last cycle's contenders. Too short and bald to be elected, though.
Still, I expect it to be someone most people haven't heard of yet.
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Mitch is my man for 2012, which gives you a good sense of how the field shapes up. As was mentioned, the biggest problem for the GOP is that they don't have anyone who isn't a retread of some kind (Daniels was a Bush cabinet member) - the closest they have is Pawlenty, but then again, he was very closely associated with McCain for a long time even before 2008. Jindal's stock is rising again thanks to his hands-on approach to the oil spill after it plummeted following the worst SOTU rebuttal ever, but he's probably still too young and too inexperienced overall.

I like Sarah Palin, but I pray she never runs for President. It's not that I think she wouldn't do well with it, it's just that there's so much more she can do from her current position as a popular figure on the right. She arguably has as much power as Obama right now, if not more considering all she has to do is post on Facebook and the Obamatons get sent into a tizzy.

Mitt? I like him, but not enough to get excited about him. Huck? Ugh, no. Petraeus? Please, the man has far too much honor to enter politics. Barbour? I'm not sure. He's a brilliant political mind, but I can just see the attack ads now. Still, he's relatively high up there compared to some of these others.

Paul? Geez, you know, if it wasn't for the fact that he's actively pandered to actual racists and racist elements (as opposed to the racists the O-bots find around every street corner), I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of supporting him, just to give the whole country a slap upside the head. But no.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Red Cloud said:
I like Sarah Palin, but I pray she never runs for President. It's not that I think she wouldn't do well with it, it's just that there's so much more she can do from her current position as a popular figure on the right. She arguably has as much power as Obama right now, if not more considering all she has to do is post on Facebook and the Obamatons get sent into a tizzy.
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As it has been said... she lives rent free in so many people's heads... its quite amazing really.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Gingrich has some Joe Biden in him. Prone to making public statements that may not be, umm, well-advised. He's one of the better behind-the-scenes pols in DC, but a Presidential run doesn't exactly play to his strengths.

I would pay to see Barbour in the general. The attacks would be priceless, but behind that pudgy, bourbon-tinged face is a pretty shrewd pol. I can see Barbour exceeding expectations . . . but then that isn't saying much, considering the expectations would be zero. As much respect as I have for his political skill, I see an ugly electoral map for Team Red.

Palin is not only more powerful from the sidelines, she's more powerful from the opposition. Nothing would make her irrelevant faster than a GOP victory in 2012. The funny thing is, that's probably a tradeoff that some Democrats would make, given their weird fascination with her.

Romney is made-for-TV, but I'm getting drowsy just thinking about that general election.

The field still looks wide open from here.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

WeWantMore said:
How do you feel about all the tax increases he's signed into law though?
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Not something I'm aware of. I'll check it out.

Or his comments on calling a "truce" on social issues?
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As a social moderate, it drew me closer to him. The only major social issue that I closely identify with the right on is abortion, and that's not something a President, no matter how conservative or socially passionate, is going to fix. Bush used social issues (and the war, incidentally, although the war was far, far less cynical) as a smoke screen to cover his fiscally irresponsible agenda items. When that screen began to dissipate, his support among conservatives began to drop.

The nation's finances are in arrears. It's time to put social issues aside for a while and fix the fiscal problems before we're in a position where social issues aren't important at all - because we'll have bigger problems.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Red Cloud said:
Not something I'm aware of. I'll check it out.



As a social moderate, it drew me closer to him. The only major social issue that I closely identify with the right on is abortion, and that's not something a President, no matter how conservative or socially passionate, is going to fix. Bush used social issues (and the war, incidentally, although the war was far, far less cynical) as a smoke screen to cover his fiscally irresponsible agenda items. When that screen began to dissipate, his support among conservatives began to drop.

The nation's finances are in arrears. It's time to put social issues aside for a while and fix the fiscal problems before we're in a position where social issues aren't important at all - because we'll have bigger problems.
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Just so you know, I was honestly asking, not trying to combative or anything. I'd like to hear some more explanations on his tax policies as well is all.

I think I agree with you on social issues as well. I could give a toss about gay marriage and things like that. I'm fine with putting those aside for however long he wants to.

The one problem I had with his "truce" statement, is that he replied "I don't know", in regards to whether he would reinstate the Mexico City policy. I don't see how taking the two seconds it would take to reinstate that would do anything to distract from fixing the economy. That seemed like a waffling answer to me.
 
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

amherstblackbear said:
You still going to recap it? Probably too early now, but maybe in 4-5 months...
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I might, but Kepler pretty much killed my interest in doing it thanks to his constant stream of negativity he pumped into the list that I did up, almost as if he had to put down every name I put forward, and quickly, or they'd have a chance to win the Presidency. It got old and I didn't even get a chance to finish it before I threw up my hands and said the heck with it. I'm sure the thread is still floating around somewhere in the ether.

For the record, here was the list I had as of June 2009. Age on Election Day 2012 is included, those with stars were on my 2008 list in 2004, and I included relevant elections/term limits between now and 2012.
1. Sarah Palin (48) Former Governor, Alaska
2. *Mitt Romney (65) Former Governor, Massachusetts
3. Mike Huckabee (57) Former Governor, Arkansas
4. Bobby Jindal (41) Governor, Louisiana (2011)
5. *Rudy Giuliani (68) Former New York City Mayor, New York
6. Charlie Crist (56) Governor, Florida (2010 senate run)
7. *Mark Sanford (52) Governor, South Carolina (2010 limit)
8. *Tim Pawlenty (51) Governor, Minnesota (2010 retiring)
9. Mike Pence (53) Congressman, Indiana (2010)
10. *Ron Paul (77) Congressman, Texas (2010)
11. Jon Huntsman, Jr. (52) Ambassador to China and Former Governor, Utah
12. *Haley Barbour (65) Governor, Mississippi (2011 limit)
13. Jim DeMint (61) Senator, South Carolina (2010)
14. *Newt Gingrich (69) Former Speaker of the House, Georgia
15. Lindsey Graham (57) Senator, South Carolina
16. *Fred Thompson (70) Former Senator, Tennessee
17. Mitch Daniels (63) Governor, Indiana
18. *John Thune (51) Senator, South Dakota (2010)
19. Gary Johnson (59) Former Governor, New Mexico
20. David Petraeus (60) General, New Hampshire
21. Eric Cantor (49) Congressman, Virginia (2010)
22. *Jeb Bush (59) Former Governor, Florida
23. *Dirk Kempthorne (61) Former Governor/Former Secretary of the Interior, Idaho
24. *Rick Perry (62) Governor, Texas (2010)
25. *Tom Coburn (64) Senator, Oklahoma (2010)
26. Judd Gregg (65) Senator, New Hampshire (2010 retiring)
27. *George Allen (60) Former Senator, Virginia
28. Kay Bailey Hutchison (69) Senator, Texas
29. Meg Whitman (56) Businesswoman, California (2010 governor run)
30. Linda Lingle (59) Governor, Hawai'i (2010 limit)
31. Mike Rounds (58) Governor, South Dakota (2010 limit)
32. *Sam Brownback (56) Senator, Kansas (2010 governor run)
33. *Condoleezza Rice (57) Former Secretary of State, California
34. Michael Steele (54) RNC Chair, Maryland
35. John Boehner (62) Congressman, Ohio (2010)
36. Paul Ryan (42) Congressman, Wisconsin (2010)
37. Carly Fiorina (58) Businesswoman, California (2010 senate run)
38. Jon Kyl (70) Senator, Arizona
39. Mitch McConnell (70) Senator, Kentucky
40. Matt Blunt (41) Former Governor, Missouri
41. *Rob Portman (56) Former Congressman, Ohio (2010 senate run)
42. John Ensign (54) Senator, Nevada
43. Jodi Rell (66) Governor, Connecticut (2010 retiring)
44. *Bill Frist (60) Former Senator, Tennessee
45. *Arnold Schwarzenegger (65) Governor, California (2010 limit)
46. *George Pataki (67) Former Governor, New York
47. *Tom Ridge (67) Former Governor/Former Secretary of Homeland Security, Pennsylvania
48. Don Carcieri (69) Governor, Rhode Island (2010 limit)
49. Rush Limbaugh (61) Political Commentator, Florida
50. Samuel Wurzelbacher (38) Activist, Ohio
 
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