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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
- Thread starter Shirtless Guy
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huskyfan
New member
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
what degree of freedom would you like them to have? sharia law? execution of those who draw cartoons of Mohammed? multiple wives? it really isn't as simple of free practice of religion.
what degree of freedom would you like them to have? sharia law? execution of those who draw cartoons of Mohammed? multiple wives? it really isn't as simple of free practice of religion.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Maybe its been proven by every major study funded by the huge weapons industry or NRA. Lott is in bed with Olin corp...the largest ammunition maker in the US, Winchester ammunition.
It took me oh like 30 seconds to find...
A new study released today shows that Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested 5,314 times since the concealed handgun license law went into effect, an average of two and one-half arrests every day from January 1, 1996, until August 31, 2001. Texas has a "shall issue" concealed carry system, in which an adult (21 or over), is issued a license that allows them to have a handgun on or about their person as long as it is not visible or discernible through ordinary observation after they meet specific, objective criteria.
I would bet against 5,300 crimes being foiled in the country (not just Texas) during the period by conceal and carry.
The concealed carry debate has been settled for 15 years. See studies by John Lott, the FBI, and data out of Australia and Britain on gun control etc. etc. In every major study, it was shown again and again that guns in the hands of citizens (open or concealed) prevent crimes exponentially more often than abet commisssion of crimes. The felons and murderers are not the people undergoing the background checks and training for the permits.
It seems so obvious, and as I said it's been proven over and over, yet there are still thoughtless idiots here and there saying concealed carry by regular people is somehow a bad thing.
Maybe its been proven by every major study funded by the huge weapons industry or NRA. Lott is in bed with Olin corp...the largest ammunition maker in the US, Winchester ammunition.
It took me oh like 30 seconds to find...
A new study released today shows that Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested 5,314 times since the concealed handgun license law went into effect, an average of two and one-half arrests every day from January 1, 1996, until August 31, 2001. Texas has a "shall issue" concealed carry system, in which an adult (21 or over), is issued a license that allows them to have a handgun on or about their person as long as it is not visible or discernible through ordinary observation after they meet specific, objective criteria.
I would bet against 5,300 crimes being foiled in the country (not just Texas) during the period by conceal and carry.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
And yet, to this day, light rail STILL has more documented kills in minnesota than a person with a C&C permit.
So we can't use someone with loose ties to the gun industry as a source but you can use an anti-gun lobby? This is rich.
And yet, to this day, light rail STILL has more documented kills in minnesota than a person with a C&C permit.
So we can't use someone with loose ties to the gun industry as a source but you can use an anti-gun lobby? This is rich.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Yes, it is. It's following our Constitution and our laws.
If those little inconveniences bother you, in that they allow some people to do things that you don't like or find offensive, too friggin' bad. Don't be whiney little girls about it. Grow up.
Letting a mosque be built means that Sharia law is now the law of the land in America. Do you even believe the crap you're writing?
Yes, it is. It's following our Constitution and our laws.
If those little inconveniences bother you, in that they allow some people to do things that you don't like or find offensive, too friggin' bad. Don't be whiney little girls about it. Grow up.
Letting a mosque be built means that Sharia law is now the law of the land in America.
Do you even believe the crap you're writing?
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
You know we have other things in our constitution that protect people from being killed over drawing a cartoon of muhammad
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Every single light rail death is documented. Many shootings are not documented or solved and undoubtably conceal and carry shootings. And what about the violence and threat related to conceal. Sorry but the comparison sucks.
Having said that...what about 5,300 documented crimes committed by those with conceal permits in Texas is not clear?
Every single light rail death is documented. Many shootings are not documented or solved and undoubtably conceal and carry shootings. And what about the violence and threat related to conceal. Sorry but the comparison sucks.
Having said that...what about 5,300 documented crimes committed by those with conceal permits in Texas is not clear?
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand, the licenses or the guns. Break it down. How many of those arrests were for murder/discharging a gun/assault with a gun etc., and how many were DUIs etc? How many of those people murdered someone because they had a permit to conceal a gun? Use your head. How could the guns or permits be the cause of all those arrests? It just doesn't pass the simplest smell test. It's the worst use of statistics.
Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand, the licenses or the guns. Break it down. How many of those arrests were for murder/discharging a gun/assault with a gun etc., and how many were DUIs etc? How many of those people murdered someone because they had a permit to conceal a gun? Use your head. How could the guns or permits be the cause of all those arrests? It just doesn't pass the simplest smell test. It's the worst use of statistics.
WeWantMore
New member
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I don't think you understand what concealed carry means. You really think all those unsolved murders were committed by people who took the time to go register and take classes in order to have a permit?
That seems unlikely.
I don't think you understand what concealed carry means. You really think all those unsolved murders were committed by people who took the time to go register and take classes in order to have a permit?
That seems unlikely.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
No it doesn't. It's a perfect comparison. You just fail to recognize it as such.
Every single detail.
No it doesn't. It's a perfect comparison. You just fail to recognize it as such.
Every single detail.
busterman62
I got a pocket full of kryptonite
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
This statement
would be ironic if it was from another poster. SOP for 5min.
This statement
Followed by
would be ironic if it was from another poster. SOP for 5min.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
No doubt sources should be considered when looking at any document. But it doesn't bother me if the numbers and conclusions are valid. I don't expect the NRA to release papers that go against their stated aims, same thing with gun control lobbyists.
The thing that's irritating here is that it's not a study at all. It's a number thrown out with no comparison, baseline, correlation or analysis. We're expected to conclude that getting a permit causes people to commit crimes (with the implication that they involve guns). There's no mention of how many of the crimes were gun-related, how many people were arrested in the same time frame in TX that didn't have the permits, or anything else that would make that one number valuable.
No doubt sources should be considered when looking at any document. But it doesn't bother me if the numbers and conclusions are valid. I don't expect the NRA to release papers that go against their stated aims, same thing with gun control lobbyists.
The thing that's irritating here is that it's not a study at all. It's a number thrown out with no comparison, baseline, correlation or analysis. We're expected to conclude that getting a permit causes people to commit crimes (with the implication that they involve guns). There's no mention of how many of the crimes were gun-related, how many people were arrested in the same time frame in TX that didn't have the permits, or anything else that would make that one number valuable.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I don't think anyone would argue with that, it was the first statement he made that makes it laughable. The NRA or someone with ties to the gun industry said one thing. However, since he had ties to those organizations, his study should be discounted.
Second, I'll take the underlined portion a step further, how many of those crimes were committed USING a concealed weapon (and not, for instance, inside someone's own home)?
Edit: Additionally, how many of those ARRESTS led to convictions?
I don't think anyone would argue with that, it was the first statement he made that makes it laughable. The NRA or someone with ties to the gun industry said one thing. However, since he had ties to those organizations, his study should be discounted.
Second, I'll take the underlined portion a step further, how many of those crimes were committed USING a concealed weapon (and not, for instance, inside someone's own home)?
Edit: Additionally, how many of those ARRESTS led to convictions?
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Seeing as the topic was about Minnesota, not sure what Texas has to do with anything. Maybe he could spend another 30 secs and find another study about Minnesota
Seeing as the topic was about Minnesota, not sure what Texas has to do with anything. Maybe he could spend another 30 secs and find another study about Minnesota
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Part of it, but you're still missing the bigger picture. Not uncommon for you, natch.
roofy's all about religious freedom when it suits him. Far be it for a public nativity display, or a cross as part of a war memorial, or a student group seeking to pray in school. Oh no, those are no good.
Part of it, but you're still missing the bigger picture. Not uncommon for you, natch.
roofy's all about religious freedom when it suits him. Far be it for a public nativity display, or a cross as part of a war memorial, or a student group seeking to pray in school. Oh no, those are no good.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
OK...lots of gyration here. Give me something real.
Lots of ways to slice the ugly numbers. From 1996 to 2000, Texas concealed handgun license holders were arrested for weapon-related offenses more than one weapon-related offense every other day since the law went into effect. I thought these people were supposed to stop crimes.
BTW...why do organizations with the most security at stake (banks, airlines, the US govt) all ban conceal and carry?
OK...lots of gyration here. Give me something real.
Lots of ways to slice the ugly numbers. From 1996 to 2000, Texas concealed handgun license holders were arrested for weapon-related offenses more than one weapon-related offense every other day since the law went into effect. I thought these people were supposed to stop crimes.
BTW...why do organizations with the most security at stake (banks, airlines, the US govt) all ban conceal and carry?
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I know you're being silly, but it is a whole other culture in TX (and the UP, for that matter) than in Minnetonka. I'd expect a much higher proportion of the TX populace to pick up the permits. The MN comparison would be: "Of the 5 people that applied for concealed carry, only 4 picked up all their poodles' waste products in the winter, and another failed to recycle all his aluminum cans over the last 24 months". Doesn't have quite the same fear factor.
Seeing as the topic was about Minnesota, not sure what Texas has to do with anything. Maybe he could spend another 30 secs and find another study about Minnesota
I know you're being silly, but it is a whole other culture in TX (and the UP, for that matter) than in Minnetonka. I'd expect a much higher proportion of the TX populace to pick up the permits. The MN comparison would be: "Of the 5 people that applied for concealed carry, only 4 picked up all their poodles' waste products in the winter, and another failed to recycle all his aluminum cans over the last 24 months". Doesn't have quite the same fear factor.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
As well, there's an element of high stakes risk/reward here. If a bad guy wrestled your gun away in a city park, what's the worst he could do? Shoot 20 people? Compared to the bad guy with a weapon on an airplane or in a bank. In certain situations of exceedingly high risk, we've been willing to throw out the Second Amendment.
Again, it's meaningless without a baseline comparison to the people that didn't get permits. And the number of crimes prevented would indeed shed more light.
Because they have their own security and/or have reason to fear the general public ("we the people").
As well, there's an element of high stakes risk/reward here. If a bad guy wrestled your gun away in a city park, what's the worst he could do? Shoot 20 people? Compared to the bad guy with a weapon on an airplane or in a bank. In certain situations of exceedingly high risk, we've been willing to throw out the Second Amendment.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Are you deliberately trying to deceive ? What you stated before was that these people were arrested not that they were arrested for committing a crime using a CONCEALED weapon or for CONCEALED gun-related offenses.
Also, they aren't for stopping crimes. They're for protecting your life when it is in IMMEDIATE DANGER. Not for stopping a jaywalker or a high speed chase.
Are you deliberately trying to deceive ? What you stated before was that these people were arrested not that they were arrested for committing a crime using a CONCEALED weapon or for CONCEALED gun-related offenses.
Also, they aren't for stopping crimes. They're for protecting your life when it is in IMMEDIATE DANGER. Not for stopping a jaywalker or a high speed chase.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Got no problem with any of those things. Just as long as it's not advocated for or displayed on government institutions, or paid for with taxpayer dollars. That whole pesky separation of church and state thing.
Explain to me the bigger picture. I get that you're offended by a mosque being built by members of the same religion that perpretrated such a heinous act on that site. I also get that just cause your sensibilites are hurt doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do what they want to with land that they own. I also get that you want to woof and make noise about how much you're offended by it. Knock yourself out.
Still doesn't change anything. You ain't the first guy to have your widdle feewings hurt by something that someone's done. You won't be the last. Get over it.
Got no problem with any of those things. Just as long as it's not advocated for or displayed on government institutions, or paid for with taxpayer dollars. That whole pesky separation of church and state thing.
Explain to me the bigger picture. I get that you're offended by a mosque being built by members of the same religion that perpretrated such a heinous act on that site. I also get that just cause your sensibilites are hurt doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do what they want to with land that they own. I also get that you want to woof and make noise about how much you're offended by it. Knock yourself out.
Still doesn't change anything. You ain't the first guy to have your widdle feewings hurt by something that someone's done. You won't be the last. Get over it.
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