Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Explain to me the bigger picture.

I'm not explaining it a fourth time. If you're too thick to understand the difference between a Muslim community that has been part of the neighborhood for over 30 years and a 13-story grand monument to the religion in whose name 2,750 innocent people were slaughtered within spitting distance, I cannot help you.

I think we've previously established that I cannot help you, actually. Put your money where your mouth is, roofy. Send the Cordoba Project a sawback.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

A new study released today shows that Texas concealed handgun license holders have been arrested 5,314 times since the concealed handgun license law went into effect, an average of two and one-half arrests every day from January 1, 1996, until August 31, 2001.

Arrests aren't the same as convictions or even indictments.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Arrests aren't the same as convictions or even indictments.

Exactly. Besides, I'd be willing to bet even if someone properly used a concealed weapon to defend their life, they would still be arrested and later released. An arrest is an incredibly stupid statistic to reference.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I know you're being silly, but it is a whole other culture in TX (and the UP, for that matter) than in Minnetonka. I'd expect a much higher proportion of the TX populace to pick up the permits. The MN comparison would be: "Of the 5 people that applied for concealed carry, only 4 picked up all their poodles' waste products in the winter, and another failed to recycle all his aluminum cans over the last 24 months". Doesn't have quite the same fear factor.

Plenty of guns in where I live, last I knew Maine was second in the nation in guns per resident. Not sure about carry permits.
I'd bet banks in Maine don't exclude customers with carry permits? Maybe they do I've never heard of it before?

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Since major is fixated on arrests, I'll point him to something that has more meaning and context - a comparison of permit holders to the general population:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba324
http://www.ncpa.org/images/1593.gif

The permit holders are less likely to be arrested than the general population. Most of them that are arrested for violent crimes (55%) are cleared of the charges against them.

Enough hysteria about conceal and carry - it doesn't produce the bad results claimed by the anti-gun lobby.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Since major is fixated on arrests, I'll point him to something that has more meaning and context - a comparison of permit holders to the general population:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba324
http://www.ncpa.org/images/1593.gif

The permit holders are less likely to be arrested than the general population. Most of them that are arrested for violent crimes (55%) are cleared of the charges against them.

Enough hysteria about conceal and carry - it doesn't produce the bad results claimed by the anti-gun lobby.

Hey, quit slamming the doors in here. Thanks.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Plenty of guns in where I live, last I knew Maine was second in the nation in guns per resident. Not sure about carry permits.
I'd bet banks in Maine don't exclude customers with carry permits? Maybe they do I've never heard of it before?

Who was 1st? Alaska? Texas? .... i think the death rate is related to high suicide rate among alaska natives.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (most recent) by state
1 District of Columbia: 31.2
# 2 Alaska: 20
# 43 Maine: 6.5
# 44 Minnesota: 6

plus if you banned guns we'll turn into China and most killings will be with a knife.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Every single light rail death is documented. Many shootings are not documented

Can we take a step back, here?

If I can't stand someone, and propose a light rail line passing right through where the jerk is standing, and the public vote goes the right way, and the permits go through, and construction starts and finishes and the first train leaves the station... The way I see it, if that arsehole is still standing there, he deserves to go down.

Or are we comparing accidents to murder?

 

[ColbyWMHB]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Still doesn't change anything. You ain't the first guy to have your widdle feewings hurt by something that someone's done. You won't be the last. Get over it.

It's not his feelings, nor yours, nor mine that matter. The feelings of the thousands of people who were actually affected by 9/11 (as opposed to the ones whose closest association is having United 93 in their Netflix queue) trump everyone as far as whether their "widdle feewings" are hurt and whether or not it's appropriate (read: not legal, since this is not a 1st Amendment issue; the right to build the Mosque isn't being challenged).

Of course, the view from the cheap seats is that they should "just get over it" and "realize that these Muslims didn't blow up the WTC," which is as heartless as it is unrealistic.

Personally, I couldn't care less if a Mosque was built on Ground Zero or across the street from my house. Neither will affect me in the least, and if it's OK with the people who live in those respective places, it's OK with me. But in the former example (aka the "real world"0 there are plenty of people for whom 9/11 seems more like 9 weeks ago than 9 years, and they're the ones who have been mostly overlooked in a debate that has taken "molehill becoming a mountain" to a brand new level.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Can we take a step back, here?

If I can't stand someone, and propose a light rail line passing right through where the jerk is standing, and the public vote goes the right way, and the permits go through, and construction starts and finishes and the first train leaves the station... The way I see it, if that arsehole is still standing there, he deserves to go down.

Or are we comparing accidents to murder?

No, I think you misread. It's a joke comparison I was making earlier. That minnesota hasn't had a single documented case of murder by C&C. However, light rail has had documented deaths by people getting hit and whatnot.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Personally, I couldn't care less if a Mosque was built on Ground Zero or across the street from my house. Neither will affect me in the least, and if it's OK with the people who live in those respective places, it's OK with me. But in the former example (aka the "real world"0 there are plenty of people for whom 9/11 seems more like 9 weeks ago than 9 years, and they're the ones who have been mostly overlooked in a debate that has taken "molehill becoming a mountain" to a brand new level.

Couldn't agree more. I care about this to the extent that it's a federal issue. On those grounds . . . it's constitutional. End of story for me.

Local zoning, ordinances, and whatever are not my concern. Though it would sure be nice if their decision was based in some generalizable standard, rather than written post hoc, explicitly to affect the relevant party. I think there be legal norms about that sort of thing.

But you nailed the real reason. Everyone has feelings, and in the twitter era, it seems that's all the justification anyone needs. Why I should care about Joe from Wichita's feelings on this issue (or he about mine) is kinda beyond me. But I'm probably in the minority.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Couldn't agree more. I care about this to the extent that it's a federal issue. On those grounds . . . it's constitutional. End of story for me.

That's actually what it is for me too... but if they want to establish that Islam doesn't give a crap about anyone else's sensitivities, I'm not going to give a crap about theirs. Like I'm supposed to shed tears over racial profiling or something like that after something this obtuse. We are expected to be hyper-sensitive about anti-Muslim sentiments, however, Muslims can do whatever the hell they want. That has nothing to do with the government and everything to do with how I (and many like me) view an entire religion.

Tolerance starts at home. If they won't tolerate my views, they should not expect to have theirs tolerated either.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

No, I think you misread. It's a joke comparison I was making earlier. That minnesota hasn't had a single documented case of murder by C&C. However, light rail has had documented deaths by people getting hit and whatnot.

minnesota have C&C permit? . no cases of murder by CC permit holders up here either I presume.

Although you can get into trouble for brandishing a weapon. 2 drivers showed (brandished) a gun to aggressive drivers and they got arrested and charged recently. I think in both cases it was some old fart who didn't like to be tailgated.

http://www.dps.state.ak.us/statewide/PermitsLicensing/concealedhandguns.aspx

allows anyone 21 or older, who may legally carry a firearm to also carry it concealed without having to obtain a special permit. The possession of a firearm at courthouses, school yards, bars and domestic violence shelters will continue to be prohibited. Alaskans may obtain a concealed carry permit if they want reciprocity with other states.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

It's not his feelings, nor yours, nor mine that matter. The feelings of the thousands of people who were actually affected by 9/11 (as opposed to the ones whose closest association is having United 93 in their Netflix queue) trump everyone as far as whether their "widdle feewings" are hurt and whether or not it's appropriate (read: not legal, since this is not a 1st Amendment issue; the right to build the Mosque isn't being challenged).

.

No they don't. The Constitutionally guaranteed rights of people, any people, to be able to do what they please with their property as long as it's within the law trumps any 'feelings' anyone might have, I don't care who they are. You may say their right to build isn't being challenged, but then, if not, what's the issue?

You know what's wrong with this country? Too many people with their 'widdle feewings' getting upset at the slightest little thing they don't like. This country has devolved into a bunch of little pansies. R. Lee Ermey would be having a field day with you buncha wusses.

Grow up, and get over it. Nothing anyone builds there can upset anyone if you don't let it. But if that was their dastardly plan, as Patman and Old Pio and the rest of the uberpatriots believe, then they've already succeeded, and they haven't even turned the first shovel over yet.

Jesus Christ, grow a pair.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

I'm not explaining it a fourth time. If you're too thick to understand the difference between a Muslim community that has been part of the neighborhood for over 30 years and a 13-story grand monument to the religion in whose name 2,750 innocent people were slaughtered within spitting distance, I cannot help you.

As far as your psychic powers have been able to determine

I think we've previously established that I cannot help you, actually. Put your money where your mouth is, roofy. Send the Cordoba Project a sawback.

Why? I don't give a crap if they build it or not, or where they build it. Tempest in a teacup as far as I'm concerned. Even if I think it's kinda inappropriate to do so there, they own the land and have the right to do whatever they want, so, eh.

I just can't understand why anyone else would get so worked up about such an inconsequential thing.

I think we've pretty much established that you're a raving idiot.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

uh. under Sharia law there is no separation of church and state.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

uh. under Sharia law there is no separation of church and state.

Good thing we're not under Sharia law then, isn't it?


Tell me, how many Christians feel there shouldn't be separation of church and state? That this country's laws were based on the Ten Commandments, and that's how our goivernment should be run?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Even if I think it's kinda inappropriate to do so there, they own the land and have the right to do whatever they want, so, eh.

Goodness sake. NO ONE is saying they don't have the right to do so. That's not the argument here.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Come on, rufus, show us your outrage over important stuff like this Pew poll that says 1 in 5 Americans think Obama's a Muslim.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2

Goodness sake. NO ONE is saying they don't have the right to do so. That's not the argument here.

Yeah. It's just 'inappropriate', and they shouldn't do so. And if they won't move it somewhere else, then something should be done to make sure they do.