Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

[candycanes99]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Vinnie needs to shoot the puck more and I would think he would score more. So many times he is getting in a good position and then pulls up. I'm not sure why. Still my favorite player but shoot the puck. On the flip side, doesn't he lead the team with assist?

Agreed. After last season, I thought he was a lock to lead the team in scoring (still thought Lucia would lead in goals). I am very happy that Russo is having the year he is, but obviously the experienced (in this case, non-freshmen) need to step it up here in the second half!

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Agreed. After last season, I thought he was a lock to lead the team in scoring (still thought Lucia would lead in goals). I am very happy that Russo is having the year he is, but obviously the experienced (in this case, non-freshmen) need to step it up here in the second half!

I think Jackson focused far too much on the last year's graduating class, and not just last year. He played many of them far too many minutes (and has admitted this a couple of times recently) and often let some very poor decisions on the ice slide with nary of second look. As a result none of the upperclassmen have developed well enough into leaders on the ice. You also have a sophomore class that came into this season with barely more experience than the incoming freshmen because of the insane number of minutes guy like Tynan and Johns were getting. Wade, Ostlie and Thomas were hardly given a chance last season, and even some of this year's upper classes suffered similarly. When many of them did dress they were relegated to grocery stick status more often than not. I think one of the huge issues with this team and program is how Jackson has managed the roster the last few seasons.

I hope going forward this will be less of an issue. The minutes played by freshmen this season in total is less than it was in 2010/11. Biilitier leaving is actually a good thing for a couple of reasons. One, if he doesn't want to be here, and be here all in, I say good luck and good bye. Another, it makes the effective size of the class one player smaller. 9 freshmen is still too many though, but better than 10 or 11.

 

[candycanes99]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Wade, Ostlie and Thomas were hardly given a chance last season, and even some of this year's upper classes suffered similarly. When many of them did dress they were relegated to grocery stick status more often than not. I think one of the huge issues with this team and program is how Jackson has managed the roster the last few seasons.

Had to look this up. Love it. (well the term, not the reason it had to be used)
Agreed, he was obviously trying to squeeze all the talent out of the team and it ultimately hurt us this year. I've been impressed with how Wade's progressed recently; maybe the year of practice benefit them more than we think?

I hope going forward this will be less of an issue. The minutes played by freshmen this season in total is less than it was in 2010/11. Biilitier leaving is actually a good thing for a couple of reasons. One, if he doesn't want to be here, and be here all in, I say good luck and good bye. Another, it makes the effective size of the class one player smaller. 9 freshmen is still too many though, but better than 10 or 11.

Also missed this. Losing guys to the OHL always stinks, but your points are good. Having a huge class hurts 4 years down the road if it means that many frosh again.

Do you guys have a good consistent source for info like this? The Observer has a couple hockey articles from time to time, but UND.com would never break "bad news." CHN/USCHO front page, or something more ND specific?

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Do you guys have a good consistent source for info like this? The Observer has a couple hockey articles from time to time, but UND.com would never break "bad news." CHN/USCHO front page, or something more ND specific?

For me it's called not having much of a life...

I look for Notre Dame news wherever I think it could be found. SBNation has a pretty decent college hockey section and I used to swear by the Western College Hockey blog that was its forerunner. That may be where I first saw news of Billitier's departure. Twitter accounts of anyone who has ever written or spoken a word about college hockey can come in handy, though as you note the ND sanctioned spots are not the place to go for much of anything "controversial." As if a player leaving could be considered that. The South Bend Tribune doesn't have an in-house reporter covering the team anymore so they can't really break news. Unless it is something big their coverage has dwindled to nothing more than home game stories and an occasional weekly preview article. A couple of us here also are among the residents of NDNation and sometimes you hear things there before anywhere else. One of that site's founders actually posted about the Compton before Notre Dame announced the news of the new arena. I believe a full day before ND made the news public.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

What the hell does Notre Dame need to do to breathe life back into this program? To get it even close to where it was 5 or 6 years ago? None other than Patrick Kane was so impressed with Notre Dame's training facilities that when plans were revealed for a new practice rink for the Blackhawks he expressed hope that the stick handling and shooting practice rooms at the CFIA would be replicated by Chicago.

I also wonder what excuse Jackson will focus on once the season ends. Will he throw players under the bus as he did following 2010 and 2012? Will he continue to blame the inexperience of the roster, inexperience he alone is almost completely responsible for due to his recruiting priorities and the horrible roster management? Will he try to extend by a year the excuse of new buildings to play in since they once again visited a lot of new rinks this season?

Just once I wish the scrutiny that follows the football team around 24-7 would visit the hockey program. But the hockey program operates in near secrecy compared to their football brethren. Despite facilities that rival any NCAA program out there, despite more NHL draft picks than all but 3 schools in all of college hockey, despite a TV contract that assures more national coverage than any other team enjoys, this team is 3 games under .500 and will miss the NCAA tournament. Either find a coach who can get these superstars to perform anywhere close to their potential, or find players who actually appreciate the palace they get to practice and play in. The current crop ain't cutting it.

 

[Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

The dictionary definition of a eunuch is: a man who has been castrated, especially (in the past) one employed to guard the women's living areas at an oriental court; an ineffectual person.

This team has no balls. I bet if I looked in each player's locker I would find tampons and purses. Maybe some lipstick.

I am ready for a complete change at Notre Dame. Change the coaching staff, change the captains, change the environment at the rink. With all the bells and whistles at their disposal, all the talent (according to NHL scouts) on the ice and all the expectations in the world (at least from this fan), this team has gotten worse. I think back to teams that had less talent (according to NHL scouts) and fewer (actually, zero) bells and whistles, and they were never outworked, never outskated, never outshot. They sometimes lost, but it wasn't for a lack of guts.

This current incarnation that wears the blue and gold is gutless. They are soft. They don't play as a team. They are not "there" for each other. This seems to be a stepping stone on the way to an NHL career. This is a team full of guys who think they don't have to work because they have their futures all sewn up, so why sweat now? Well, I got news for these players. No NHL team wants a soft player. No NHL team wants a lazy player. No NHL team wants a player who can't finish. No NHL team wants a player who is not here for his teammates, but rather is here for himself.

This current incarnation of coaches appears to be as gutless as the players they coach. Bag skate 'em. Punish bonehead plays. Sit lazy players. Strip the captains of their privilege. Do something to show the fans that you care about the outcome of each game. Do something to show me, a teacher, that you, teachers of hockey players, are willing to say, "Well, that didn't work. Let's try something completely different." If you can't admit what you are doing currently isn't working out, then you aren't working out. Change your focus on the type of player you recruit. I teach criminals, drug addicts, "losers" to some people. I could not (and don't want to) teach high achievers. This coaching staff needs to coach lunch pail players--not linen table cloth players.

 

[The Zlax45]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

The dictionary definition of a eunuch is: a man who has been castrated, especially (in the past) one employed to guard the women's living areas at an oriental court; an ineffectual person.

This team has no balls. I bet if I looked in each player's locker I would find tampons and purses. Maybe some lipstick.

I am ready for a complete change at Notre Dame. Change the coaching staff, change the captains, change the environment at the rink. With all the bells and whistles at their disposal, all the talent (according to NHL scouts) on the ice and all the expectations in the world (at least from this fan), this team has gotten worse. I think back to teams that had less talent (according to NHL scouts) and fewer (actually, zero) bells and whistles, and they were never outworked, never outskated, never outshot. They sometimes lost, but it wasn't for a lack of guts.

This current incarnation that wears the blue and gold is gutless. They are soft. They don't play as a team. They are not "there" for each other. This seems to be a stepping stone on the way to an NHL career. This is a team full of guys who think they don't have to work because they have their futures all sewn up, so why sweat now? Well, I got news for these players. No NHL team wants a soft player. No NHL team wants a lazy player. No NHL team wants a player who can't finish. No NHL team wants a player who is not here for his teammates, but rather is here for himself.

This current incarnation of coaches appears to be as gutless as the players they coach. Bag skate 'em. Punish bonehead plays. Sit lazy players. Strip the captains of their privilege. Do something to show the fans that you care about the outcome of each game. Do something to show me, a teacher, that you, teachers of hockey players, are willing to say, "Well, that didn't work. Let's try something completely different." If you can't admit what you are doing currently isn't working out, then you aren't working out. Change your focus on the type of player you recruit. I teach criminals, drug addicts, "losers" to some people. I could not (and don't want to) teach high achievers. This coaching staff needs to coach lunch pail players--not linen table cloth players.

Providence College fans said the same thing about Pooley's program with the Friars...

 

[CollegeHockeyRinkReport]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Recap of Notre Dame's 4-2 loss at Northeastern

http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/hoc...2-zach-aston-reese-mike-szmatula-dalen-hedges

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

This team has no balls.

This current incarnation of coaches appears to be as gutless as the players they coach.

I'd throw in as evidence of this mindset the interview from earlier in the week of Mario Lucia during the radio broadcasts of this weekend's games. With Notre Dame sitting in 5th place (and owning games in hand on all 4 teams in front of them) Lucia parrots the same ridiculous goal that Jackson has them striving for, a 4th place finish in Hockey East. For the love of God that is some weak tea. It is a weak, useless goal and it leads to a team full of soft minded, gutless players. At the time of the interview, winning the games in hand alone would have put you in third place. From there you think a top-4 finish is a reasonable, responsible goal? Give me a break. If Brian Kelly had as a goal what seems to be his natural ceiling (8-9 wins) students, alumni and fans would be burning him in effigy in front of the Gug. Understandably.

This program needs a near complete flushing. It has gone nowhere since the CFIA opened. Players don't develop. Hockey is of secondary importance in their own arena (albeit for very different reasons than it was of secondary importance while housed in the JACC). Seasons end generally in disappointment and excuse making. Every temporary improvement (PP) is met with huge steps back (PK failing 24% of the time in the last 5 after failing just 15% of the time previously, Petersen failing to bail out the team one time over the weekend, a complete reluctance to shoot the puck in the most crucial situations towards the end of both games).

 

[irishstate]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

I don't know.... I mean they've got PPG in the last 5 games? You have the nationally leader in points for a defenseman on the team, and the freshmen national leader for points by a defenseman. The +/- is to be desired, and there are a lot of negative stats we can look at. It does appear at times that they are getting out worked or played some lousy periods, but even the coaching staff admits this.

Now I have to admit that I am a very very very new fan (especially compared to the rest here), but I just can't help but notice that Jackson has one of the best winning percentages of current coaches that have coached for at least ten years (well it's him and Lucia at MN). I can't help but notice that ND has made the NCAAs six times in it's hockey history, and five of those times come under Jackson. It has only made the frozen four twice, and never without Jackson. No other coach has left Notre Dame with a plus .500 record and Jackson currently holds a record over .600 at Notre Dame. So as much as I want to say this time sucks royal and someone needs to smack it, it's hard for me to say they should pull the plug on Jackson. I mean, the goal should be to win hockey east etc. But part of thinks they trying to win that first round bye so they have a shot to win the tournament.

It just seems to me that without Jackson there is no one being upset by ideas like:
"We aren't going to make the NCAAs"
"We aren't winning Hockey East"
"We aren't winning."
Jackson seems to be a large part of why people are mad at the above statements. I'd like to give him a year with this class and see how they turn out next year. I believe coaches may have had us third preseason and media 8th? I remember some of the first games many people thought or knew this team was way down, and they've had some decent games.

Easy to see the negatives, but what about any positives?
Russo performance, Gross as a freshmen. I like the way he plays.
3 points from Vermont, first point against Lowell (and should have been 2 but the refs sucked), first HE road sweep. Sure they got swept by northeastern, but they weren't great on the road last year in conference play.

 

[irishstate]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

That's not to say that the negative isn't there. The way Jackson has handled the lineup, the way the classes are so large (although they are trying to adjust that as they can...). The team has driven me nuts at points this year (swept by northeastern and western Michigan?? losing to lake state after beating Miami?? Blowing idk how many leads? Shoot, I think they've given up GW goals under 2 minutes a few times now. Sometimes they have badly gotten outshot.

I got no problems at time saying this team sucks pucks. I'm just trying to find some reason to be optimistic. LOL

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Now I have to admit that I am a very very very new fan (especially compared to the rest here), but I just can't help but notice that Jackson has one of the best winning percentages of current coaches that have coached for at least ten years (well it's him and Lucia at MN). I can't help but notice that ND has made the NCAAs six times in it's hockey history, and five of those times come under Jackson. It has only made the frozen four twice, and never without Jackson. No other coach has left Notre Dame with a plus .500 record and Jackson currently holds a record over .600 at Notre Dame.

I think this is an unfair comparison among coaches. Without doubt, Jackson is the most accomplished and by most measures the best coach Notre Dame has ever had. But look at the constraints on the program for nearly the entire history of hockey as a varsity sport at Notre Dame. Left Smith was almost single-handedly responsible for the program in his early days here with very little help. In the earliest days the program was effectively two people, Smith and his lieutenant Tim McNeill. Nothing like the 3 assistants, a dedicated equipment guy, a video guy, facilities up the ying yang, and more TV exposure than all but a couple of programs have ever enjoyed that Jackson has. The program was tied to the whipping post by misguided TITLE IX application and was then tainted for years as a school that "didn't care about hockey," a sentiment that proved correct quickly enough in the early 1980s. Ric Shafer -- against most odds -- was able to convince Notre Dame to more fully fund the program and got it back to playing with the rest of big-time college hockey by the early 90s. But for his time in the CCHA (3 seasons) the team was forced to compete with far less than the full complement of scholarship players. Only when Poulin came aboard was Notre Dame fully funding the NCAA maximum 18 scholarships. And Poulin should never have been hired by a school looking to compete consistently and win on a regular basis. He got hired completely on the basis of his being a decorated alum of the program and came here with NO coaching experience of ANY kind. It was dumb when Notre Dame hired a high school coach to coach football. It was even dumber that they hired a guy with ZERO experience to coach hockey. Through no fault of his own, Poulin was never going to succeed consistently. But he did prove that given the correct circumstances and changing demographics among NCAA hockey hopefuls, Notre Dame COULD recruit well and win.

I also don't think it can be overstated just how far backward this program has gone since moving to the CFIA. As an example look at it this way; Give the program a point for every significant on-ice achievement (by my definition NCAA wins, NCAA invites, FF berths, regular season titles, and league playoff titles). In the five seasons from 2007 to 2011 you have 14 points. In the 3 seasons since moving from the JACC you have 3. And you can throw in another goose-egg this season. Without winning the Hockey East title this team ain't making the NCAAs.

It also cannot be overstated how much more was accomplished with far less. Jackson harped endlessly that the success he brought in those first few years could not be sustained without significant improvement in facilities. We couldn't recruit the kinds of players needed to win. Well how the hell did we recruit them up until 2011? Now that we have all those bells and whistles how is it we no longer compete for regular season titles? Or win NCAA tournament games? All of that happened at the JACC. And incidentally all of that happened on teams that were made up of mostly Poulin recruits. I'm not sure how aware all fans are of how hockey recruiting works, but most of the guys on the teams through the 2009 season were recruited by Poulin. SOme of the ones on the 2011 team were as well. Teams full of Jackson's own recruits, in a building he insisted he needed, haven't won much of anything and as competitors fail the eye test way too many times.

Easy to see the negatives, but what about any positives?
Russo performance, Gross as a freshmen. I like the way he plays.
3 points from Vermont, first point against Lowell (and should have been 2 but the refs sucked), first HE road sweep. Sure they got swept by northeastern, but they weren't great on the road last year in conference play.

Sure there are almost always positives, no matter how crappy the season. Poulin's last team here was the single worst college hockey team I have ever seen. Yet Morgan Cey was among the top-10 in the CCHA in goals against and save %. But the team won 5 games all season, failed to score more than 2 goals 31 times in 38 games and closed the season with a 19 game winless streak. They got beat by Michigan 6 times by the combined scores of 40-7. It didn't matter that Cey was one player among nearly 30 that didn't suck pond water. Just like it didn't matter that Christiaan Minella, on a team that played for a national title, couldn't score a goal in 24 games, and despite playing in just those 24 games still committed more penalties than all but 6 other players.

At what point does what happened in the past stop holding more traction than what have you done for me lately? I didn't want to jettison the coach when the 2009-10 season derailed. I didn't want to after 2012 ended in huge disappointment after spending part of the first half of the season as the number 1 team in the NCAA. But too much has gone South over the last few years to ignore it. Substantial change is needed. It isn't going to happen most likely, but it is needed.

 

[irishstate]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Part of it is just looking at what Jackson walked into and what he did with it. Although I do feel a little air that is kind of like "Thank you for taking the program to the next level. You've done that, but now we need someone who can take it to another level." Especially if there isn't success next year (and I think that be defined by an NCAA berth). I still want to see improvement over the 8th place finish and 9-9-2 conference record this year.

As far as hockey recruiting goes, I doubt many outside the die-hards know. As a newer fan to the game, hockey can be confusing enough. Adjusting to stupid things like..... a goal is scored with 13:10 on the clock and they keep saying the goal is scored at 6:50. There are a number of things that seem odd and backwards at first until you adjust to it. Hockey recruiting is so different because you have players already drafted (not in other sports), you have kids that sign letters of intent (which means what in hockey is a high debate the last couple of years). You rarely get someone with a scholarship all 4 years. You have guys that go and play juniors for a year or two even, and then come to campus as a freshmen. It would appear that make you ineligible, for example if I went and played football in "juniors" or that it would at least take away from years of eligibility, but it doesn't. I've heard of one 5 year senior, but this doesn't seem to happen in hockey either (was that a special case or?). There is a lot of aspects in hockey recruiting etc. that are just unique and different. If I hadn't fallen in love with the game and college hockey I sure wouldn't know as much as I did (which isn't a ton.)

It doesn't help that many college hockey fans are arrogant people with sticks up their butts. You can read the posts here when a newbie post something showing a lack of hockey intelligence and watch them get bashed to pieces. That really helps grow the game, let me tell you. LOL

 

[Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

...You rarely get someone with a scholarship all 4 years. You have guys that go and play juniors for a year or two even, and then come to campus as a freshmen. It would appear that make you ineligible, for example if I went and played football in "juniors" or that it would at least take away from years of eligibility, but it doesn't. I've heard of one 5 year senior, but this doesn't seem to happen in hockey either (was that a special case or?).

The scholarships are split between players and they are year-to-year. Usually the top lines get more scholarship than the bottom lines. Exceptional players (Jack Eichel) get a whole lot more scholarship than Joe Aiken (who gets bupkiss). Some players can play into a scholarship (Mark Van Guilder). Players who play junior hockey play in Canada lose eligibility to play college. Players who play in college usually have played in the USHL or the like or for the NTDP. Those aren't the same because they are not part of a professional hockey program. Players who play overseas and play some kind of professional game lose eligibility in college, but it usually is proportionate to the amount they played in Europe (they have to sit for X games before being eligible to play in college). It used to be the norm to have players come to college as "true" freshmen (18 years old), but they gain development from teams like Waterloo or the NTDP before coming to college, sometimes because there is no room for them on the roster yet or they aren't ready for the college game yet. When Dave Poulin came to ND as a freshman, he was an anomaly because he was 2 years older than his classmates who had come straight from high school.

It doesn't help that many college hockey fans are arrogant people with sticks up their butts. You can read the posts here when a newbie post something showing a lack of hockey intelligence and watch them get bashed to pieces. That really helps grow the game, let me tell you. LOL

Hence the reason I rarely post anymore. I don't like Hockey East for lots of reasons.

 

[HHound]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

The scholarships are split between players and they are year-to-year. Usually the top lines get more scholarship than the bottom lines. Exceptional players (Jack Eichel) get a whole lot more scholarship than Joe Aiken (who gets bupkiss). .

I never thought I'd see a Yiddish expression used in a Notre Dame post. We are flattered-even if you misspelled "bupkes". It's the thought that counts.

 

[Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres.]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

I never thought I'd see a Yiddish expression used in a Notre Dame post. We are flattered-even if you misspelled "bupkes". It's the thought that counts.

Actually, I am taking the spelling from an episode of the Dick Van Dyke Show (my all-time favorite t.v. show). While Morey Amsterdam (Buddy) was Jewish, I don't think he had much say in the vernacular! Thanks for noticing though! ;-)

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

I don't like Hockey East for lots of reasons.

You'd love it if you weren't losing a lot of games in this league.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

You'd love it if you weren't losing a lot of games in this league.

Actually as of now we're over .500 in this league. I hate it mainly because fans like you make up the lion's share. At least on this forum. Your jealousy of Notre Dame shows every time you troll our threads looking to take a shot. How small is your ***** anyway?

 

[HHound]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

Actually as of now we're over .500 in this league. I hate it mainly because fans like you make up the lion's share. At least on this forum. Your jealousy of Notre Dame shows every time you troll our threads looking to take a shot. How small is your ***** anyway?

I'm sorry that you have such trouble dealing with a little adversity. We are certainly not jealous of Notre Dame, nor are the vast majority of us "trolling" your thread looking to take shots. Why should we? you have plenty of your own fans who are willing to do that.
As a NU fan, I've been visiting for the past week + because we were hosting your team this past weekend. It is obvious to any reasonable observer that Carmine's comment is spot on. We all know that winning is more fun than losing.
Good luck with the rest of your season, especially in your games with the top four teams. You should be able to win a few of those games.

 

[irishstate]

Re: Notre Dame Hockey 2014-15: The year of the Freshman

You'd love it if you weren't losing a lot of games in this league.

And I've also found that usually the most arrogant fans are actually rather ignorant themselves.
Considering that ND is just over .500 in league play, and then when it comes to the HE tournament and getting to MSG Notre Dame is 1 for 1. Which is usually the goal for most HE teams. They also did it while knocking off BC in a 3 game series, something that is hardly ever done by any other HE team lately.

Frankly ND's record in HE would be even better if it wasn't for the 3rd class refs the league has had. At least it is improved this year.
See last year games against umass, maine, and this year against Lowell as three games right off the top of my head where refs decided outcomes.