Incredibly Dull Boring 2022 Pairwise and Tournament Possibilites Thread

[purpleinnebraska]

I don't have a problem with Loveland having a regional. I could change my mind if there is a dismal turnout with a great Denver team playing in it though. Curious to see how that one goes. Denver is usually in the tournament so this is their chance to show hosting was the right move. Other programs can get upset but if you're not putting in the work to try and host a regional, too bad.

It might turn out OK. The Denver airport is the easiest western airport to get a flight to.
It would have worked out ideally if Air Force had made the field. UMD fans are used to traveling this time of year, so they might help boost the attendance. I think they'll likely outdraw Allentown, and maybe Albany.

 

[John J. MacInnes]

Now I know most of the eastern schools in the tournament are in the 3rd and 4th bands but it would be nice to have a Massachusetts representative in the Frozen 4 in Boston. 5 of the 16 schools are from Massachusetts while much of the conversation I've heard is about how many Minnesota schools are in it(4). Michigan is well represented as well with 3.

Considering all five of the Massachusetts schools are in the bottom 6 seeds, that will be a tall order. For attendance purposes, it's not as important at a FF since there's a much greater advance ticket sale regardless of participants in comparison to regional sites.

 

[SJHovey]

It seems like the "perfect" formula is a regional in/around Minnesota, Michigan, and two eastern locations. Each state has the most number of teams with 3+ conferences within that footprint and hockey is popular there to pick up a number of people who like hockey. That would make the Denver, Wisconsin, PSU, and Miami fans upset.

The funny thing is, the NCAA has actually figured out the perfect formula for the playoffs for a niche sport like hockey. They just refuse to implement it, probably because of the coaches, is my guess.

The perfect formula is the one the NCAA uses for baseball and softball. Regionals / Super-regionals at the home of the higher seed. Championship in the same city every year.

 

[J.D.]

The funny thing is, the NCAA has actually figured out the perfect formula for the playoffs for a niche sport like hockey. They just refuse to implement it, probably because of the coaches, is my guess.

The perfect formula is the one the NCAA uses for baseball and softball. Regionals / Super-regionals at the home of the higher seed. Championship in the same city every year.

The only problem would be years where a school like Union gets a #1 seed. Or a similar type infrastructure. That goes back to what I posted earlier in the thread. You would need to know ahead of times what schools are capable of hosting and those schools would need to be on board with keeping the arena available for that weekend. But I did mention baseball. The format would be very similar. Of course, you could also alleviate some of this by having the round of 16 be all on campus between only two teams each. So 1-16, 2-15 etc. Then any school could "host" and it gets you down to 8 teams after that.

 

[purpleinnebraska]

The perfect formula is the one the NCAA uses for baseball and softball. Regionals / Super-regionals at the home of the higher seed. Championship in the same city every year.

I like the first part of that. But aren't there at least 3 or 4 excellent sites for the Frozen Four? (Buffalo just isn't one of them)

 

[SJHovey]

The only problem would be years where a school like Union gets a #1 seed. Or a similar type infrastructure. That goes back to what I posted earlier in the thread. You would need to know ahead of times what schools are capable of hosting and those schools would need to be on board with keeping the arena available for that weekend. But I did mention baseball. The format would be very similar. Of course, you could also alleviate some of this by having the round of 16 be all on campus between only two teams each. So 1-16, 2-15 etc. Then any school could "host" and it gets you down to 8 teams after that.

The "Union problem" is a red herring. Not every facility is an NHL arena. Just like not every college baseball facility is Yankee stadium.

For teams like Mankato who play at a site they do not control, those teams already have to make plans for possible, but not guaranteed games as part of their conference playoffs.

The baseball system works really well. You identify the host seeds for the Super-regionals (which are really just the equivalent of hockey's tournament). If the host seed loses at the regional level, or if for some other reason the host seed can't host, then the remaining teams get to "bid" on hosting. Usually the program with the best facility wins that bid, but it wouldn't have to be that way. You could give the #2 seed a chance to host, and so on.

I also think the host can choose to host it at a neutral site. In fact, I think one of the baseball Super Regionals got moved to a neutral site by the host last year due to pandemic restrictions.

As for the question as to whether there are multiple cities capable of hosting the FF, sure. But I will tell you this. I attended every WCHA conference tournament in St. Paul from its inception to when western college hockey blew up in 2014. I also frequently attend the College World Series in Omaha. Those two events were/are spectacular, I believe in large part due to the common experience in the common location. The host knows how to run the event. The host hotels, bars and restaurants have their plans in place.

It makes for a wonderful experience.

 

[Numbers]

The funny thing is, the NCAA has actually figured out the perfect formula for the playoffs for a niche sport like hockey. They just refuse to implement it, probably because of the coaches, is my guess.

The perfect formula is the one the NCAA uses for baseball and softball. Regionals / Super-regionals at the home of the higher seed. Championship in the same city every year.

If you cared about the game and the athletes, yes. However, as we all know, the NCAA really cares about the $$. And, they can't guarantee themselves enough if they shift to that model.

 

[RPI fan 4 life]

Just went through the process of pretending like I was buying a ticket to Worcester...not a single word on whether you can leave the arena or not. So I called DCU Center (can't remember last time I called a ticket office but here we are). To my surprise I got through to a human being and to further my surprise they knew exactly what I was talking about. They did confirm that while their normal policy is to not allow readmittance to the arena, because the games are so spaced out they ARE allowing you to leave and then come back.

So while I am happy to hear that, why again are sites going to want to bid if everyone who is there bolts in between games and then comes back? Good luck to DCU concessions.

I did the same thing with MVP Arena in Albany. I essentially got the same response. Good news for the bars and restaurants downtown.

 

[Split-N]

Just went through the process of pretending like I was buying a ticket to Worcester...not a single word on whether you can leave the arena or not. So I called DCU Center (can't remember last time I called a ticket office but here we are). To my surprise I got through to a human being and to further my surprise they knew exactly what I was talking about. They did confirm that while their normal policy is to not allow readmittance to the arena, because the games are so spaced out they ARE allowing you to leave and then come back...

Confirmed! To not do this would have amounted to involuntary incarceration. Common sense occasionally prevails.

 

[boblav1]

A little off topic. Who covers the expenses for the teams making the tournament? Does the school or the NCAA cover the costs for airfare and lodging?

 

[SCSUBlackandRed]

A little off topic. Who covers the expenses for the teams making the tournament? Does the school or the NCAA cover the costs for airfare and lodging?

I believe any full D1 program has expenses covered. Thought I had heard in the past few years SCSU has to pay their own expenses because we did the opt up for just hockey in D1. Guessing someone else here might have the full facts though.

 

[SCSUBlackandRed]

I don't have a problem with Loveland having a regional. I could change my mind if there is a dismal turnout with a great Denver team playing in it though. Curious to see how that one goes. Denver is usually in the tournament so this is their chance to show hosting was the right move. Other programs can get upset but if you're not putting in the work to try and host a regional, too bad.

I'll start by saying the reality on all of this to the NCAA is money. They don't care if anything is really "fair" as long as they get paid. Small schools like SCSU, Mankato, Bemidji and I'll even throw UMD in here aren't going to get support to back the $150k guarantee the NCAA requires. Even if they could, what site could they bid? I guess the Sioux Falls, SD and Fargo, ND sites would be options but not really with UND pretty much owning the ability to bid them. I know UNO also got a bid at one, so even more competition.

We then run into the what other sites that meet the requirements issue. We have Target Center in Minneapolis and the X in St. Paul. Target Center has the Wolves or the State Boys Basketball Tourney already. The X has the Wild as main tenant who already is giving up almost a full week to the State Hockey Tournament followed by the NCHC Frozen Faceoff (locked up through 24-25). Going after a Regional the week after that isn't going to fly with the Wild after all that. Think we're only going to see Frozen Four bids at the X going forward as a result of all that.

So now you have 3-4 teams per year who make the tournament (5 seriously possible many years) from MN not really having a place to even bid while all the while having really solid options if they could be on campus. Meaning could meet the minimum attendance capacity requirements, have enough hotel options and are within 2-3 hours of MSP. And the Michigan schools seem to be in a similar situation.

I'd love to see #1 seeds get an option to host vs. programs with money being the ones who can take advantage of that option instead. Prefer merit of playing into a top seed over buying the advantage. But I get all of the issues that come with it. I love the comparisons to the baseball tournament people are putting out here for solutions. Still simpler for baseball as there aren't likely to be as many other events scheduled for those fields as there are for arenas (concerts, etc.).

 

[SCSUBlackandRed]

Now I know most of the eastern schools in the tournament are in the 3rd and 4th bands but it would be nice to have a Massachusetts representative in the Frozen 4 in Boston. 5 of the 16 schools are from Massachusetts while much of the conversation I've heard is about how many Minnesota schools are in it(4). Michigan is well represented as well with 3.

Last one of the night for me. I think a lot of people who aren't as familiar with the college game who don't pay attention until tourney time know that Northeastern or AIC are in Mass. If it isn't BU/BC, they don't know about the others.

I think you can make a strong argument for the defending champs beating the Gophers and then winning that region. If the UMass game is still like it was last year, that doesn't bode well for Minnesota's style of play. WMU is a different animal and will be a tougher out in my opinion but not unbeatable by any means. Of course that assumes they get past Northeastern. That's one tough region.

And you never know with Harvard either. The Minnesota state schools (Mankato and St. Cloud) have been known to drop a game as a #1 seed from time to well almost every time. I'll just say I have more confidence in Mankato this year than St. Cloud.

I do think the reason for all the Minnesota teams chatter is where they are seeded more than anything.

 

[scoreboard]

Confirmed! To not do this would have amounted to involuntary incarceration. Common sense occasionally prevails.

Does anyone know if you will be allowed to leave arena between games in Allentown?

 

[Scarlet]

How come ESPNU doesn't have who is playing the 6:00pm game in the program guide. It says TBA. I'm assuming it's the other two teams in the Albany regional, correct? It's the only game it could be, right?

 

[scoreboard]

For Allentown, you will be able to leave between games. Need to be scanned out by security before leaving the building.

 

[ticapnews]

How come ESPNU doesn't have who is playing the 6:00pm game in the program guide. It says TBA. I'm assuming it's the other two teams in the Albany regional, correct? It's the only game it could be, right?

You should know better than to expect anything from ESPN.

 

[J.D.]

Didn't even realize the regional final game times won't be set until they know who is playing in them. So the Albany/Loveland regional final game times won't be decided until tonight. Add that to the list of stupid ideas. So the Loveland regional starts after Albany but let's not commit to game times for Saturday ahead of time. All to try and maximize miniscule TV ratings.

 

[J.D.]

https://twitter.com/SchlossmanGF/status/1507029949739380742?t=0W5U9UWcTOo1G079iFKE0Q&s=19

 

[thebrain]

We then run into the what other sites that meet the requirements issue. We have Target Center in Minneapolis and the X in St. Paul. Target Center has the Wolves or the State Boys Basketball Tourney already. The X has the Wild as main tenant who already is giving up almost a full week to the State Hockey Tournament followed by the NCHC Frozen Faceoff (locked up through 24-25). Going after a Regional the week after that isn't going to fly with the Wild after all that. Think we're only going to see Frozen Four bids at the X going forward as a result of all that.

The Xcel’s schedule this past week and upcoming weekend:
March 18-NCHC semis
March 19-Wild game and NCHC championship
March 20-Dark
March 21-Wild game
March 22-Elton John
March 23-Elton John
March 24-Wild game
March 25-Dark
March 26-Wild game
March 27-Wild game

Why would the X want to hold a regional?

Target Center did put ice in earlier this year for Disney on Ice, but it was out right after the show.

TC had:
March 19-Wolves game
March 20-Globetrotters
March 21-Dark
March 22-High school hoops tourney
March 23-Wolves game
March 24-Dark
March 25-Wolves game
March 26-Korn concert
March 27-Dark

Why would Target Center want to hold a regional?