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Gaza 2023: The Next Episode

Handyman said:
Then you havent paid attention any of the other times this has happened. The only reason the world didn't turn on Israel faster this time is because of the hostages. Otherwise, by day 2 all of Europe and half this country would have been spitting on Israel and saying they have no right to act accordingly. (you are correct in that this time it is at an 11 but the hate and protests would still be there and the media especially would be amplifying Pro Palestine stuff) Hamas and other groups like Hezbollah knows this and that is why they play the game the way they do. They are begging for a ceasefire, they will violate it within a day or two and then the entire West and the UN will tell Israel to stand down and if they don't condemn them for it...

Look at the protests at NYU and you will see what this is all really about it. The Pro-Palestine group of students (not all of whom have "White Guilt" sadly) aren't asking for a ceasefire or peace...they are literally chanting they want one state...and that state aint Israel. People in Paris are painting Stars of David on Jewish schools, a Jewish Cemetery in Vienna had its prayer room burned and swatzikas painted on it. An Asian engineer at Cornell is being federally charged for threatening the Jews on campus and calling for violence against them by others. (all the Ivys are having these issues as is Stanford and MIT not exactly the Berkleys of the world) That isn't because Israel bombed Gaza and is acting like d-bags (and make no mistake, Bibi should be ousted and taken to the Hague) it is because they don't have to hide their feelings anymore. History is riddled with this stuff it is nothing new. This is the same playbook Antisemites have been using since about the 5th Century.

Put it this way...most American Jews want a ceasefire and peace. They want a two state solution. Hell one interrupted Biden yesterday begging for it. They have protests at the WH, they speak of Hamas and Palestine as two different entities. (obviously there is some that think otherwise but not anywhere close to the majority and most of them would hate me as much as they hate Palestinians) We don't call for boycotts of Muslim businesses, we don't want Palestinians to be singled out, we don't want Israel to kill innocents. Meanwhile the violence and destruction being brought to Jews way outside the ME is being justified by Pro-Palestinians because of the actions of Israel because somehow we are all responsible for the actions of people we have no affiliation with in a country thousands of miles away. That is like blaming random Catholics at CDH for the Church covering up child abuse...how are they responsible? Then in the same breathe we are told not to judge Palestinians by Hamas. Want to know why that is? Because one of the most recycled tropes used against Jews back in the day, long before Israel was even a thing let alone Palestine, is to make the Jews seem loyal only to each other and not the community they live in. Easy way to lowkey spread hate is to question loyalty and much of the modern world has been doing that to since before the time of Christ. Now it is so ingrained Jews might as well be Black Motorists driving in The South and the rest of the world is every cop. Omar still hasn't won back the Jewish Community for trafficking in some of those old tropes and I am not even sure she meant to do it. That is how much it is part of just everyday thinking. It literally dates back to Rome and the time of Judea. (actually might even be earlier that is just as far back as I know it was used)

This war isn't causing the hate...the war is just justifying it.
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I stand by what I said. Especially after everything you posted, it kind of makes my point for me.
 
Kepler said:
I always tell my Christian friends that genetically Jesus probably most resembled a young Yasir Arafat.

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If that's true, then who is that nordic hippie surfer dude whose picture hangs in the basement of every christian church in god-fearing America? Pastor Olson wouldn't lie about a thing like that.
 
Just saw some Israeli propaganda ad on CNN. Money talks and all that but definitely surprising to see that on American tv.
 
Setting off a Nuclear Bomb in Gaza will definitely settle the problem...just not the way that clown thinks. To think, these guys are dumber than a Commodore 64 in 1983...

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This post is better suited here...shifted from the election thread.

Kepler said:
The problem with that interpretation is the Israelis use the same slogan. So, does that mean "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty” is a genocidal call for obliterating all Palestinians?

Conservatives think "pro choice" means murdering little babies. You can't brand a slogan with the language of its most vituperative opponents and then claim that makes people who use that slogan monsters. That's some sort of logical error I've forgotten the Latin for.

I still say this is simple: just drown everyone from Hamas, Hezbollah, and Likud, and let the sane people live together. That's a from the river to the sea we can all get behind.
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I had a very long rant written about this post...I deleted it but let me just say while I love AlJazeera that article is straight crap and is on the level of the NYT/Politico in its weak azz historical research and "bothsiderism". From the River to the Sea has never meant "Equality within Historic Palestine" unless you want to take a very dark view of that phrase. And dont get me started on "Historic Palestine" whoever wrote that article has never read a World History book...

Speaking of phrases...why isn't anyone giving Egypt hell for basically saying they are willing to go to war to stop Palestinians from crossing the border? (yes that happened) Why doesn't the world care that no one in the ME lifts a finger to protect the Palestinians ever let alone in times of crisis? (yay the Queen of Jordan gave a speech...how are all those refugees you killed over the years feeling about it? Remember how you guys never let the Palestinian State exist with the West Bank but somehow convinced the world Israel was the problem...good times!) Why is it that the entirety of the Middle East views the Palestinians like Latin America views the Mexicans but no one cares unless Israel is involved? No one (especially the West) cares about the Palestinians until Hamas does something stupid and Israel says HOLD MY BEER! That is the plight of the Palestinians...to most of the world all they are is either some Infantilized Group of Brown People that White Guilters can use to make themselves feel like they are using their privilege for good or as canon fodder in a war that has nothing to do with them at all. They are like Old People or Blacks who vote Republican...they just never see that they aren't part of the accepted crowd and are kept around to say "Hey look I have a Black friend!!".

I have said this a thousand times, and will say it ten thousand more...Israel and Palestine need each other. If both just got rid of their leadership they could be a force for good together the likes of which the ME has never seen. Bill Clinton saw that...too bad a bunch of fundamentalists on both sides were too stupid and greedy to understand. Of course, they aren't the ones dying so why would they care?
 
Handyman said:
Speaking of phrases...why isn't anyone giving Egypt hell for basically saying they are willing to go to war to stop Palestinians from crossing the border? (yes that happened) Why doesn't the world care that no one in the ME lifts a finger to protect the Palestinians ever let alone in times of crisis? (yay the Queen of Jordan gave a speech...how are all those refugees you killed over the years feeling about it? Remember how you guys never let the Palestinian State exist with the West Bank but somehow convinced the world Israel was the problem...good times!) Why is it that the entirety of the Middle East views the Palestinians like Latin America views the Mexicans but no one cares unless Israel is involved? No one (especially the West) cares about the Palestinians until Hamas does something stupid and Israel says HOLD MY BEER! That is the plight of the Palestinians...
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My understanding is that the rest of the ME has treated the Palestinians like garbage for the last 80 years. Essentially it's what the US did with El Salvadorans and Pakistanis and Afghanis. Support them as a way to rile their locals against an enemy (Commies; Israelis). Arm them but don't let them settle locally. Use them to destabilize the enemy; then freak out and harass and keep them out. And, when the population inevitably become radicalized, block them for "counter-terrorism" reasons.

The ME regimes are authoritarians who maintain societies so unequal they make us look tame. They need an outside enemy to rally their people. The Jews were heaven-sent. The Palestinians are just a pawn. A democratic, peaceful Arab regime would be an existential threat to those medieval hermit kingdoms.
 
So nov 11 is Remembrance Day in the UK. There is a large pro Palestine March planned for that day

British press now reporting that a former Hamas chief is living in london and behind the planning for the March
 
how abouts someone piping up to broker a deal for a cease fire with 1)hamas will immediately release all the hostages they took & 2) hamas unconditionally surrender to the israelis, giving up each and every weapon they have in return for a guarantee that capital punishment not be instituted. it would be nice to also arrest the hamas leaders living high on the hog in qatar, but diplomat mookie realizes this is probably a deal breaker.

following this cease fire, israel and the p.a. will sign peace accords between the two. gaza will not be permitted to arm, ever. gaza will employ a police force for their own security of saudi (or qatari) nationals, since they are so concerned.
israeli citizens will feel safe. palestinians will feel safe. everyone can sing kumbaya, even the hamas terrorist who can live out their days in an israeli prison (cause you can be dam sure nobody else wants them in their country).
 
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