Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

As a general rule, I'm not comfortable with reporters smarting off to the POTUS. I wasn't in favor of it when Dan Rather did it at the height of Watergate: "Are you running for something, Mr. Rather? No, Mr. President, are you?" I wasn't comfortable at a Bill Clinton speech (Veterans day?) at the Vietnam wall when some vets went beyond turning their backs on him and started to heckle. I was uncomfortable with "you lie" during a State of the Union address (I was uncomfortable with an inexcusable presidential cheap shot at the Supreme Court, too. Also during a SOTU). And this exchange today makes me uncomfortable as well. And for the same reasons: regardless of the general esteem in which the president is held, he's still the president. We were taught in the military that we weren't saluting the individual, we were saluting the uniform. I believe that also holds true for POTUS.

However, it's also clear that His Amnestyness is no longer POTUS, rather he is a candidate for that office. And every single thing he says and does between now and election day is calculated to advance his candidacy. Including today's giant pander to Latinos. And if he wants to pick a fight with reporters to make himself look the victim to his base then so be it. What's his name, Rep. Cummings wasted no time in attributing the dustup to racism. I guess that means either Nixon or Rather was black, but I'll be d*mned if I can remember which one. And it would take an extreme partisan to think His Loserness' declining numbers among African Americans entered into his thinking today, or won't enter into his thinking just about every day between now and November. Do the name Sister Souljah ring a bell?

 

[Foxton]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

As a general rule, I'm not comfortable with reporters smarting off to the POTUS. I wasn't in favor of it when Dan Rather did it at the height of Watergate: "Are you running for something, Mr. Rather? No, Mr. President, are you?" I wasn't comfortable at a Bill Clinton speech (Veterans day?) at the Vietnam wall when some vets went beyond turning their backs on him and started to heckle. And this exchange today makes me uncomfortable as well. And for the same reasons: regardless of the general esteem in which the president is held, he's still the president. We were taught in the military that we weren't saluting the individual, we were saluting the uniform. I believe that also holds true for POTUS.

It's also clear that His Amnestyness is no longer POTUS, rather he is a candidate for that office. And every single thing he says and does between now and election day is calculated to advance his candidacy. And if he wants to pick a fight with reporters to make himself look the victim to his base then so be it. What's his name, Rep. Cummings wasted no time in attributing the dustup to racism. I guess that means either Nixon or Rather was black, but I'll be d*mned if I can remember which one. And it would take an extreme partisan to think His Loserness' declining numbers among African Americans entered into his thinking today, or won't enter into his thinking just about every day between now and November.

But smucks who have apparently done everything and everything is right and proper.

Why don't you just go play in traffic?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Hmmm It's been over 14 hours (an eternity in the 24-hour newscycle) and Romney hasn't commented on Obama's immigration policy.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Hmmm It's been over 14 hours (an eternity in the 24-hour newscycle) and Romney hasn't commented on Obama's immigration policy.

You spoke too soon. It is all over the radio this morning.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Just got some $ numbers for our town which is in an educational crisis and immediately thought of this thread. I think it was someone on here that was saying that admin costs were probably guilty of eating up the budget. Right now we are close to dead last in spending in the state per student. We are dead last in admin costs for the 25 towns that are like ours. The next town up spends 25% more on admin than ours does. They have killed Art in the elementary grades. Kids will get music, gym, computer one class every 2 weeks and the teachers for these will be traveling teachers- going to the different schools instead of teaching in one place. No foreign language until 8th grade, AP classes may be cut. They cut 50 % of the music dept. The reading resource room at elementary level is cut. They hired a new stupid-intendent who is questionable because no real viable candidates applied. WHo would with a town that gives so little resources to school system. We will probably be at risk of losing accreditation because when we were evaluated we had things that had to be fixed to keep it. Instead of fixing this we are now cutting from things that had previously been barely satisfactory.

VERY SCARY. If my kid weren't with in 2 yrs of graduating I would be 2nd mortgaging my house to send him to a private school.

Our town has not run at a deficit. We run on a balanced budget. Running a responsible budget has been detrimental. We have nothing left to cut. They increased the budget for the school system but can't make upt the $ lost. This is a direct result of lack of funding at the Fed level that has trickled down to decreased state level funding. This makes me have a question for all the people who think that things should not come from the federal level and don't want taxes to rise. What is the answer to situations like this? How does a fairly small town with no huge tax base afford to educate the 4000 kids it has?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Our town has not run at a deficit. We run on a balanced budget. Running a responsible budget has been detrimental. We have nothing left to cut. They increased the budget for the school system but can't make upt the $ lost. This is a direct result of lack of funding at the Fed level that has trickled down to decreased state level funding. This makes me have a question for all the people who think that things should not come from the federal level and don't want taxes to rise. What is the answer to situations like this? How does a fairly small town with no huge tax base afford to educate the 4000 kids it has?

I had started the school admin discussion. Clearly it doesn't apply to your area, but in the school district in which I grew up, and the one where I live now, it's a big budgetary item that seems artificially inflated to me. There are a number of positions that didn't exist when I was in school and we got along just fine without them.

Are you school districts out there directly tied to the town? By that I mean, does the city council sets the budget for the school? The reason I ask is that out here the schools and cities are often (always?) separate. For instance, I grew up in Independent School District 196, which serves two cities in total, the majority of a third, some local townships, and bits of a few other cities. Their budget is not set by the city but by the school district and the school district levies its own local taxes. (The county acts as the tax collector on behalf of the school districts.) There is state and federal funding added into this.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Town run and budgeted. Part of the town budget.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

You spoke too soon. It is all over the radio this morning.

"I believe the status of young people who came here through no fault of their own is an important matter to be considered and resolved on a long term basis so that they know what their future will be in this country."

Romney can handle the 'considering' part of the problem and Obama can handle the 'resolution' part. And in the end Romney can take credit anyway. Sound like a deal?

 

[pirate]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Just got some $ numbers for our town which is in an educational crisis and immediately thought of this thread. I think it was someone on here that was saying that admin costs were probably guilty of eating up the budget. Right now we are close to dead last in spending in the state per student. We are dead last in admin costs for the 25 towns that are like ours. The next town up spends 25% more on admin than ours does. They have killed Art in the elementary grades. Kids will get music, gym, computer one class every 2 weeks and the teachers for these will be traveling teachers- going to the different schools instead of teaching in one place. No foreign language until 8th grade, AP classes may be cut. They cut 50 % of the music dept. The reading resource room at elementary level is cut. They hired a new stupid-intendent who is questionable because no real viable candidates applied. WHo would with a town that gives so little resources to school system. We will probably be at risk of losing accreditation because when we were evaluated we had things that had to be fixed to keep it. Instead of fixing this we are now cutting from things that had previously been barely satisfactory.

VERY SCARY. If my kid weren't with in 2 yrs of graduating I would be 2nd mortgaging my house to send him to a private school.

Our town has not run at a deficit. We run on a balanced budget. Running a responsible budget has been detrimental. We have nothing left to cut. They increased the budget for the school system but can't make upt the $ lost. This is a direct result of lack of funding at the Fed level that has trickled down to decreased state level funding. This makes me have a question for all the people who think that things should not come from the federal level and don't want taxes to rise. What is the answer to situations like this? How does a fairly small town with no huge tax base afford to educate the 4000 kids it has?

that was me, and while it may be that your town spends less than others...the cuts you mention indicate there isn't enough money. While it may be that your district spends less, my point isn't specific to one town...there are thousands of school districts in the US, which means thousands of supers and thousands of asst supers and thousands of secretaries, and thousands of school district cars and thousands of school district buildings and they go to seminars and conferences etc.

Rarely do you hear of 4 districts getting together and having one super for all of them to save money. I'm sure it happens..but not enough. I heard on NPR the other day that only 2% of HS students have PE class. Sounds too low to be accurate but that is what they said.

Walmart, McD's, olive Garden, Walgreens etc...they don't have thousands of people in district manager roles. Nobody trying to do anything cost effectively nationwide would start with thousands of districts and thousands of administrators paid between $100-200k per year + a benefits package and pension.

I see two different numbers for school districts...one report says 15k and another says over 14k. That's a lot of administrators.

Us Census:School Districts
School districts are public school systems that provide regular, special, and/or vocational education services for children in pre-kindergarten through 12th grade. Public school systems in the United States are locally administrated, and their geographic structure varies by state and region. Most districts in the Mid-Atlantic and New England states follow county, township, or city boundaries, while districts in the Midwest and Western states are generally independent of municipal boundaries and frequently intersect statistical areas like Census tracts and block groups. The U.S. has more than 14,000 public school districts and spends more than $500 billion on public elementary and secondary education each year (combined spending of federal, state, and local governments).

The U.S. Census Bureau develops demographic, economic, geographic, and fiscal data for school districts, and many of these data collection activities are conducted in cooperation with the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), part of the U.S. Department of Education’s Institute of Education Sciences. The U.S. Census Bureau does not collect student achievement information and it does not provide data that identifies characteristics of individual students or staff members.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Rarely do you hear of 4 districts getting together and having one super for all of them to save money.

That's because parents don't want to surrender "local control." School consolidation has been considered often here in Maine, and while people love the idea of saving money they don't want a superintendent or school board three towns away (which in rural Maine can be quite a ways) deciding things. I'm sure Walrus will come in here and correct me, but I believe our last governor proposed a slew of school consolidation but it was opposed in rural districts (where they would really notice the savings).

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

That's because parents don't want to surrender "local control." School consolidation has been considered often here in Maine, and while people love the idea of saving money they don't want a superintendent or school board three towns away (which in rural Maine can be quite a ways) deciding things. I'm sure Walrus will come in here and correct me, but I believe our last governor proposed a slew of school consolidation but it was opposed in rural districts (where they would really notice the savings).

It was a law, they had to, to keep funding or there was some kind of penalty. It was done all over Maine. Now they're dissolving them left and right. Orono is an example, Glenburn wanted out, town voted and now the district is Orono and maybe Veazie. Ellsworth on the other hand most have 8 towns in their union, savings of high 6 figures

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

that was me, and while it may be that your town spends less than others...the cuts you mention indicate there isn't enough money. While it may be that your district spends less, my point isn't specific to one town...there are thousands of school districts in the US, which means thousands of supers and thousands of asst supers and thousands of secretaries, and thousands of school district cars and thousands of school district buildings and they go to seminars and conferences etc.

Rarely do you hear of 4 districts getting together and having one super for all of them to save money. I'm sure it happens..but not enough. I heard on NPR the other day that only 2% of HS students have PE class. Sounds too low to be accurate but that is what they said.

Parise, I agree. There was a case here in Minneapolis last year in which $270k in pay raises were given to 35 paper pushers by the district super without permission - after 112 district jobs were cut including 52 teachers. This quote really got my dander up:

School district spokesman Stan Alleyne said the increases given to administrators, who are not represented by a union, are on par with raises given to other employees during contract bargaining. On average, the employees who received the raises take home $100,000 per year. The pay hikes, retroactive to July 2010, were paid out in lump sums.

I don't care about teachers making bank if they earn it, but likewise cut back on number the office staff pronto.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/126046388.html

 

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Charlotte, NC will not be dry for the Dem convention: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2012/06/new-law-keep-booze-flowing-dem-convention/739706

Good example of buy-partisan legislation.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Romney can handle the 'considering' part of the problem and Obama can handle the 'resolution' part. And in the end Romney can take credit anyway. Sound like a deal?

This is the sort of thing that Obama does where you wonder if he's playing chess vs. checkers.

It takes Rubio out of legit VP discussions, and forces Romney to either embrace something a Dem WH did suggested by a Republican or throw any legit effort at getting Latino votes out the window.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

For instance, I grew up in Independent School District 196, which serves two cities in total, the majority of a third, some local townships, and bits of a few other cities. Their budget is not set by the city but by the school district and the school district levies its own local taxes. (The county acts as the tax collector on behalf of the school districts.) There is state and federal funding added into this.

And whenever the school districts feel like the state is shorting them on money, they hurl a tax hike referendum at the voters. The ones that happen in the off years tend to pass far more often than the ones that appear in election years.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

The local control thing is right on around here. I can't even imagine what would happen if they tried that. The different towns locally have very different cultures. The ones with the money wouldn't want to be connected to ones without and the voter base as far as issues such as curriculum for health class (well, now we really don't have that, but if we did) are polar opposites. The surrounding towns teach health and discuss maturation in elementary or middle school. My town cut the chapter on seeds because that has something to do with reproduction.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

However, it's also clear that His Amnestyness is no longer POTUS, rather he is a candidate for that office. And every single thing he says and does between now and election day is calculated to advance his candidacy.

Breaking radio silence because I'm more in agreement than not.

But this part reminds me of the old adage "where you stand depends on where you sit." For Republicans, the President is engaged in politics rather than policy. For Democrats, the GOP House (and Senate superminority) completely ceased governing long ago, and are focusing solely on partisanship. The truth is that the two are inseparable. There's a healthy amount of both policy and partisanship in both cases.

Any standard that respect for office depends on avoiding partisanship essentially devolves to respect for offices held by people I like, which isn't really respect at all, when you think about it. Means-testing doesn't work here. There need to be minimum standards.

That applies to the president, as well. Calling out the Supreme Court in a state of the union speech - whether for being excessively partisan or being bad at law - was also evidence of the decline of decorum in DC. Coming from the top (the presidency), you can make a case that it's worse.

But that's beside the point. Any time spent arguing which side is more aggrieved is time spent not making progress.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Hmmm It's been over 14 hours (an eternity in the 24-hour newscycle) and Romney hasn't commented on Obama's immigration policy.

That's because Romney is on your side. He's no different from Obummer. He says all he wants, but I expect him to be just as communist as Obummer.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

Breaking radio silence because I'm more in agreement than not.

But this part reminds me of the old adage "where you stand depends on where you sit." For Republicans, the President is engaged in politics rather than policy. For Democrats, the GOP House (and Senate superminority) completely ceased governing long ago, and are focusing solely on partisanship. The truth is that the two are inseparable. There's a healthy amount of both policy and partisanship in both cases.

Any standard that respect for office depends on avoiding partisanship essentially devolves to respect for offices held by people I like, which isn't really respect at all, when you think about it. Means-testing doesn't work here. There need to be minimum standards.

That applies to the president, as well. Calling out the Supreme Court in a state of the union speech - whether for being excessively partisan or being bad at law - was also evidence of the decline of decorum in DC. Coming from the top (the presidency), you can make a case that it's worse.

But that's beside the point. Any time spent arguing which side is more aggrieved is time spent not making progress.

Well done.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Elections 2012:What unites us is greater than what divides us

And people are still wondering why I won't vote for Romney, despite seeming to be, in their eyes, an "evil republican"... http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/romney_won_say_he_ll_overturn_obama_583srGeBS9hogwh1vQD7ZK