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D3 Game Updates 2012-13

Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

gojackets said:
I've never seen common opponents taken that way. It's either the way the NCAA does it...win/loss results against common opponents(in this case it is a wash) and move on to next comparison or total goal differential between common opponents.

In your example, Neuman wins the comparison against Elmira. Technicially Cortland would also be +4 against Buffalo State, because in the 4 games the played, they outscored them 11-7. Which is a tie. I think you are also giving Cortland the win over Utica 6-3 vs 7-3..Where Cortland is 11-5 over Utica which would give Neumann the win on that comparison.

I'd say your method is faulty in the sense that Cortland's scores against Buff State were 1-1, 2-3, 3-1 and 5-1...in the 5-1 win the Buffalo State goalie was playing in her first game ever...hardly a valid argument to say "because we beat their 2nd/3rd string goalie by a lot, and they beat their 1st string goalie by a little..we are a better team." Overall goal differential will even those "outliers" out a little more.

Either Neumann went ahead because of common opponent goal differential or they went to the 4th tiebreaker which is overall record and Neumann won that easily because they played 3 games against Stephenson.

Regardless its pretty much a moot point...yes it sucks that they didn't make the playoffs...but in all honesty were they really going to make it anywhere once they got there?
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You're looking at all Buff State games while I was only counting the league games. What does it matter who was in goal for Buff? All that should matter are the league head to head results; thats whats written. Deciding seedings within league should stay within league. And, if you'd like to look further, Neumann played two more overall games than Cortland and only have one less loss. Its clear that they have three more wins overall, thanks to Stevenson. Their goal diff is a +9 vs Stevenson while their best goal diff within the league is +7 vs. Chatham (last place). You can't compare Newmann's overall schedule to Cortlands.

And, yes, any team can win any game at any given time. Cortland held Utica to a tie and eventually lost in overtime in league play. If your a true hockey fan then you will remember the LA Kings backed into the playoffs on the last day of the season and proceeded to win the Stanley Cup just last year. Any team is capable of anything!
 
RightDecision? said:
You're looking at all Buff State games while I was only counting the league games. What does it matter who was in goal for Buff? All that should matter are the league head to head results; thats whats written. Deciding seedings within league should stay within league. And, if you'd like to look further, Neumann played two more overall games than Cortland and only have one less loss. Its clear that they have three more wins overall, thanks to Stevenson. Their goal diff is a +9 vs Stevenson while their best goal diff within the league is +7 vs. Chatham (last place). You can't compare Newmann's overall schedule to Cortlands.

And, yes, any team can win any game at any given time. Cortland held Utica to a tie and eventually lost in overtime in league play. If your a true hockey fan then you will remember the LA Kings backed into the playoffs on the last day of the season and proceeded to win the Stanley Cup just last year. Any team is capable of anything!
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Clearly you are a Cortland parent who is looking at this from that perspective. As an unaffected third party observer I can see clearly that Neumann wins the comparison. Why should the non conference games against buff state and Utica not count. They are common opponents. It doesn't matter if they were playing in conference games or not. Where does it say "comparison of results against common oppenents in conference?". Cortland is just helped by the fact that they won the two conference games against buff state and lost the non-conference ones

You said that all that should matter are league head to head results. That is the first tie breaker. That didn't decide it. You need second tie breakers and so on. No matter how you interpret the tie breakers Neumann wins. Unless you come up with some crazy abstract method of looking at the tie breakers which is what you did.
 
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spwood said:
St. A is a Div II team, are they? I mean, they play a Div III schedule, but technically they're a Div II team. Does that affect the record you are talking about?
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Not really talking about a record per se but really only looking for numbers for comparisons. DII playing a DIII schedule or strictly a D Iii team does it really matter ?
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

gojackets said:
Clearly you are a Cortland parent who is looking at this from that perspective. As an unaffected third party observer I can see clearly that Neumann wins the comparison. Why should the non conference games against buff state and Utica not count. They are common opponents. It doesn't matter if they were playing in conference games or not. Where does it say "comparison of results against common oppenents in conference?". Cortland is just helped by the fact that they won the two conference games against buff state and lost the non-conference ones

You said that all that should matter are league head to head results. That is the first tie breaker. That didn't decide it. You need second tie breakers and so on. No matter how you interpret the tie breakers Neumann wins. Unless you come up with some crazy abstract method of looking at the tie breakers which is what you did.
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Cortland parent or not, have you read the posted ECAC West policy as it currently is written? Remember it because you will see it rewritten more clearly and precise for next season. I've stated over and over again that the written, third tie breaker is: Comparison of results against common opponents. The only common opponents between Neumann and Cortland is their league play. Cortland wins that tie breaker. You've suggested that Stevenson's losses to Neumann secured their seed. Stevenson isn't in the ECAC West so how can those games be a deciding factor? This is an ECAC West playoff seed we are discussing afterall. Here is an example you may understand: The Yankees and Red Sox's season ends in a dead heat. Would the MLB take the results of a preseason game vs the Mets as a deciding factor in crowning the A.L. East Champion? We all know it would come down to a one game playoff. And you say I have some crazy abstract method of looking at this!
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

RightDecision? said:
Cortland parent or not, have you read the posted ECAC West policy as it currently is written? Remember it because you will see it rewritten more clearly and precise for next season. I've stated over and over again that the written, third tie breaker is: Comparison of results against common opponents. The only common opponents between Neumann and Cortland is their league play. Cortland wins that tie breaker. You've suggested that Stevenson's losses to Neumann secured their seed. Stevenson isn't in the ECAC West so how can those games be a deciding factor? This is an ECAC West playoff seed we are discussing afterall. Here is an example you may understand: The Yankees and Red Sox's season ends in a dead heat. Would the MLB take the results of a preseason game vs the Mets as a deciding factor in crowning the A.L. East Champion? We all know it would come down to a one game playoff. And you say I have some crazy abstract method of looking at this!
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Their only common opponents are conference teams, but Cortland also played games against those teams as non-conference games. Just because they were non-conference does not exclude them as common opponents. I have read the ECAC West policy that you provided. It states "comparison of results against common opponents" not "comparison of common opponents in ECAC-W Play." This would include those non-conference games against Buffalo State and Utica. If both teams had played Middlebury and Cortland won and Neumann lost, would you throw that game out since it was a non-conference game?

Even if you don't count those games Neumann still wins the goal differential comparison 32-41 vs Cortland 34-46. You have decided to interpret goal differential in the only possible way that Cortland could possibly come out on top, but again if you include all games including common opponents...it doesn't come out that way.

You keep asking why would the wins against Stevenson count.

Again if you look at the tie breakers--tie breaker two is Conference wins

Tie breaker 4 is overall record. In what world would overall record only include conference games? Even if you look at the ECAC website they have Conference record and overall record. Whether you believe those games should count is irrelevant, the statement "overall record" is fairly clear to everyone else.


Your MLB example is a great example: In the AL East standings do they only consider games against other teams in the AL-East? no it goes by overall record, not even AL games...but overall record throughout the season decides the winner. Now the 1 game playoff is the policy that Major League Baseball has put in place to settle the tie breaker at the end of the season and that is what they do. The ECAC-West has these tie breakers set in place and that is what they use to decide this.
 
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Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

hawkhockey said:
Not really talking about a record per se but really only looking for numbers for comparisons. DII playing a DIII schedule or strictly a D Iii team does it really matter ?
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to start any trouble here. My question was that the 8 point game is a Div III scoring record. Since St. A is a Div II school, they can't hold a Div III record. As an example, if a Div I basketball player scored 140 points against a Div II opponent, that player would not hold the Div II single game scoring record. I see what you are saying about the fact that St. A plays a Div III schedule, but I doubt the NCAA makes that distinction in the record books. That said, she had a phenominal game and maybe she holds the record for all of NCAA women's hockey...
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

spwood said:
I wasn't trying to start any trouble here. My question was that the 8 point game is a Div III scoring record. Since St. A is a Div II school, they can't hold a Div III record. As an example, if a Div I basketball player scored 140 points against a Div II opponent, that player would not hold the Div II single game scoring record. I see what you are saying about the fact that St. A plays a Div III schedule, but I doubt the NCAA makes that distinction in the record books. That said, she had a phenominal game and maybe she holds the record for all of NCAA women's hockey...
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Here you go.........

Points Scored in Game
10—Jennifer Botterill, Harvard vs. Boston College, Jan. 28, 2003;
Nicole Corriero, Harvard vs. Union (NY), Nov. 7, 2003
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

jerrynu26 said:
Here you go.........

Points Scored in Game
10—Jennifer Botterill, Harvard vs. Boston College, Jan. 28, 2003;
Nicole Corriero, Harvard vs. Union (NY), Nov. 7, 2003
Click to expand...

OK...she owns the Div II single-game scoring record?:D
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

Manhattanville 5 New England College 0
Looks like M-ville scored 5 goals on 10 shots in the 1st!
Anyone there?
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

Adrian 2 Wisconsin-Stevens Point 1 after the 1st.
Adrian scored 2 early, Point regrouped and scored just before the end of the period.
 
Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

gojackets said:
St NOrbert goes up 5-4 on power play (stupid penalty) with about 2 minutes to go
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Superior with some great chances in the final minute but St Norbert hangs on to win 5-4 :(

Bad 2 or so minute stretch in the 2nd leads to Superior's downfall....they better come to play tomorrow
 
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Re: D3 Game Updates 2012-13

River Falls 5-Eau Claire 4...probably a little too close or comfort down there. EC with 4 goals on 15 shots.
 
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