USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
- Thread starter JohnsonsJerseys
- Start date
JDUBBS1280
MN Hockey Enthusiast
Good for you Dubbs. So you were talking about the Big Ten but never said you were. Do you think Barriero would believe that?
Your obsession with Barriero is a bit creepy.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/sp...cle_c86bc60f-72d5-52c0-aec1-750c5cff2c3e.html
I haven't honestly had a chance to follow this super close. Help me out. Exactly how many knew about this as it was happening...and how many actually were guilty of the crime itself?
http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/sp...cle_c86bc60f-72d5-52c0-aec1-750c5cff2c3e.html
I haven't honestly had a chance to follow this super close. Help me out. Exactly how many knew about this as it was happening...and how many actually were guilty of the crime itself?
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
Appreciate the link. The answer to my question is "potentially worse for the Football program." There's no discussion of other sports. No real comparison with the death penalty "option" is made. There are some interesting quotes evaluating the probable recovery time from the actual sanctions, as well at what PSU's stature will be in the meantime. Again, thanks.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
Again, I have no claim to be an expert on the merits of the punishment. Yet, it would seem to me that if its 'potentially that much worse for the football program' that it could be 'that much worse for the school as a whole'. It would be interesting to see just how SMU as a university was viewed in public eyes in the years immediately preceding its transgressions...and how it has been perceived since. From what little I know, it has at times seemed like a faint shadow of its former self. Say what one will about the horrible crimes of individuals both legal and moral committed, but IMO its really unfortunate to see the potential decimation of a great institution that has taken over a century to build.
Again, I have no claim to be an expert on the merits of the punishment. Yet, it would seem to me that if its 'potentially that much worse for the football program' that it could be 'that much worse for the school as a whole'. It would be interesting to see just how SMU as a university was viewed in public eyes in the years immediately preceding its transgressions...and how it has been perceived since. From what little I know, it has at times seemed like a faint shadow of its former self. Say what one will about the horrible crimes of individuals both legal and moral committed, but IMO its really unfortunate to see the potential decimation of a great institution that has taken over a century to build.
Beer Pong Horn
soldier of fortune
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
If I were more callous and wanted to point out the folly of blindly following a charismatic leader and a seductive program of hero worship, without regard to the rights of others, I'd note the comparison between Happy Valley, July 2012 and Germany, May 1945.
But I'm not, because that would be an oversimplification, and there's no comparison of JoePa's inaction to you-know-who's horrific actions against millions.
...
Even if Penn State is left in shambles.
...
And half-subsumed by the Red (ink) Army.
If I were more callous and wanted to point out the folly of blindly following a charismatic leader and a seductive program of hero worship, without regard to the rights of others, I'd note the comparison between Happy Valley, July 2012 and Germany, May 1945.
But I'm not, because that would be an oversimplification, and there's no comparison of JoePa's inaction to you-know-who's horrific actions against millions.
...
Even if Penn State is left in shambles.
...
And half-subsumed by the Red (ink) Army.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
I think I understand your point, but not sure I agree. I think that there as schools (USC and many universities in the south come to mind) whose academic reputations might improve if their sports, especially football, teams were less visible. If severe sanctions against a school's football team means the decimation of the University, then maybe football does have more status than it should have, and needs to be de-emphasized.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
I thought I'd look at a comparison of SMU and Penn State (Penn States penalities aren't as severe as SMU):
Penn State (wiki)
Five years' probation.
A four-year postseason ban.
Vacating of all wins from 1998 to 2011--112 wins in all. This had the effect of stripping the Nittany Lions of their shared Big Ten titles in 2005 and 2008. It also removed 111 wins from Paterno's record, dropping him from first to 12th on the NCAA's all-time wins list.
A $60 million fine, the proceeds of which were to go toward an endowment for preventing child abuse. According to the NCAA, this was the equivalent of a typical year's gross revenue from the football program.
Loss of a total of 40 initial scholarships from 2013 to 2017. During the same period, Penn State is limited to 65 total scholarships--only two more than a Division I FCS (formerly I-AA) school is allowed.
Penn State was required to adopt all recommendations for reform delineated in the Freeh report.
Penn State must enter into an "athletics integrity agreement" with the NCAA and Big Ten, appoint a university-wide athletic compliance officer and compliance council, and accept an NCAA-appointed athletic integrity monitor for the duration of its probation.
SMU (wiki)
The 1987 season was canceled; only conditioning drills were permitted during the 1987 calendar year.
All home games in 1988 were canceled. SMU was allowed to play their seven regularly scheduled away games so that other institutions would not be financially affected.
The team's existing probation was extended until 1990. Its existing ban from bowl games and live television was extended to 1989.
SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years.
SMU was required to ensure that Owen and eight other boosters previously banned from contact with the program were in fact banned, or else face further punishment.
The team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches, instead of the typical nine.
No off-campus recruiting was permitted until August 1988, and no paid visits could be made to campus by potential recruits until the start of the 1988-89 school year.[16]
I thought I'd look at a comparison of SMU and Penn State (Penn States penalities aren't as severe as SMU):
Penn State (wiki)
Five years' probation.
A four-year postseason ban.
Vacating of all wins from 1998 to 2011--112 wins in all. This had the effect of stripping the Nittany Lions of their shared Big Ten titles in 2005 and 2008. It also removed 111 wins from Paterno's record, dropping him from first to 12th on the NCAA's all-time wins list.
A $60 million fine, the proceeds of which were to go toward an endowment for preventing child abuse. According to the NCAA, this was the equivalent of a typical year's gross revenue from the football program.
Loss of a total of 40 initial scholarships from 2013 to 2017. During the same period, Penn State is limited to 65 total scholarships--only two more than a Division I FCS (formerly I-AA) school is allowed.
Penn State was required to adopt all recommendations for reform delineated in the Freeh report.
Penn State must enter into an "athletics integrity agreement" with the NCAA and Big Ten, appoint a university-wide athletic compliance officer and compliance council, and accept an NCAA-appointed athletic integrity monitor for the duration of its probation.
SMU (wiki)
The 1987 season was canceled; only conditioning drills were permitted during the 1987 calendar year.
All home games in 1988 were canceled. SMU was allowed to play their seven regularly scheduled away games so that other institutions would not be financially affected.
The team's existing probation was extended until 1990. Its existing ban from bowl games and live television was extended to 1989.
SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years.
SMU was required to ensure that Owen and eight other boosters previously banned from contact with the program were in fact banned, or else face further punishment.
The team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches, instead of the typical nine.
No off-campus recruiting was permitted until August 1988, and no paid visits could be made to campus by potential recruits until the start of the 1988-89 school year.[16]
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
Here's been the impact on SMU via wiki. One very interesting note is that it says that the NCAA seriously considered shutting down Penn States' football program entirely due to the scandal:
The scandal left the Mustang football program in ruin. Next to the cancellation of two seasons, the most severe sanction in the long term was the loss of 55 scholarships over four years. As a result, the Mustangs did not have a full complement of scholarships until 1992, and it was another year before they fielded a team entirely made up of players unaffected by the scandal. Since 1989, SMU has had a record of 66-169-3.
The fallout from the "death penalty" was not limited to SMU. The Southwest Conference already had a dubious reputation with the number of NCAA violations at its member schools (at one point, only three of its nine members were not on probation), and the discovery of the scandal further tarnished the conference's image. The scandal was one of many factors behind the SWC's ultimate dissolution in 1996[citation needed]. Left without a conference, SMU moved initially to the Western Athletic Conference along with former SWC rival TCU. The Mustangs eventually transferred to Conference USA along with Rice in 2005, joining former SWC rival and C-USA charter member Houston. The team continues to compete in the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision despite having an undergraduate enrollment of about 6,000 students—one of the smallest in the division. [26]
The far-reaching effects that resulted from enacting the "death penalty" on SMU has reportedly made the NCAA skittish about issuing another one. Since 1987, 30 schools have committed two major violations within a five-year period, thus making them eligible for the "death penalty." However, the NCAA has seriously considered shutting down a Division I sport only twice since then, against Kentucky men's basketball in 1989[28] and Penn State football in 2012. It has actually handed down a "death penalty" only twice, both against smaller schools—Division II Morehouse College men's soccer in 2003 and Division III MacMurray College men's tennis in 2005.
In 2002, John Lombardi, then president of the University of Florida and now president of the Louisiana State University System, expressed the sentiment of many college officials when he said:
"SMU taught the committee that the death penalty is too much like the nuclear bomb. It's like what happened after we dropped the (atom) bomb in World War II. The results were so catastrophic that now we'll do anything to avoid dropping another one.”
Here's been the impact on SMU via wiki. One very interesting note is that it says that the NCAA seriously considered shutting down Penn States' football program entirely due to the scandal:
The scandal left the Mustang football program in ruin. Next to the cancellation of two seasons, the most severe sanction in the long term was the loss of 55 scholarships over four years. As a result, the Mustangs did not have a full complement of scholarships until 1992, and it was another year before they fielded a team entirely made up of players unaffected by the scandal. Since 1989, SMU has had a record of 66-169-3.
The fallout from the "death penalty" was not limited to SMU. The Southwest Conference already had a dubious reputation with the number of NCAA violations at its member schools (at one point, only three of its nine members were not on probation), and the discovery of the scandal further tarnished the conference's image. The scandal was one of many factors behind the SWC's ultimate dissolution in 1996[citation needed]. Left without a conference, SMU moved initially to the Western Athletic Conference along with former SWC rival TCU. The Mustangs eventually transferred to Conference USA along with Rice in 2005, joining former SWC rival and C-USA charter member Houston. The team continues to compete in the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision despite having an undergraduate enrollment of about 6,000 students—one of the smallest in the division. [26]
The far-reaching effects that resulted from enacting the "death penalty" on SMU has reportedly made the NCAA skittish about issuing another one. Since 1987, 30 schools have committed two major violations within a five-year period, thus making them eligible for the "death penalty." However, the NCAA has seriously considered shutting down a Division I sport only twice since then, against Kentucky men's basketball in 1989[28] and Penn State football in 2012. It has actually handed down a "death penalty" only twice, both against smaller schools—Division II Morehouse College men's soccer in 2003 and Division III MacMurray College men's tennis in 2005.
In 2002, John Lombardi, then president of the University of Florida and now president of the Louisiana State University System, expressed the sentiment of many college officials when he said:
"SMU taught the committee that the death penalty is too much like the nuclear bomb. It's like what happened after we dropped the (atom) bomb in World War II. The results were so catastrophic that now we'll do anything to avoid dropping another one.”
Skeeterman
Bob is making me nervous
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
What hockey?
What hockey?
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
Do some research -- the evidence is ****ing to JoePa's superiors, but there's virtually nothing concrete to support significant charges against him personally. The conclusion at the end of Freeh's report that Paterno was involved in the conspiracy is not supported by anything contained in the rest of the report.
Powers &8^]
Do some research -- the evidence is ****ing to JoePa's superiors, but there's virtually nothing concrete to support significant charges against him personally. The conclusion at the end of Freeh's report that Paterno was involved in the conspiracy is not supported by anything contained in the rest of the report.
Powers &8^]
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
5mn, SMU was a relative flash-in-the-pan (no bowl appearances from 1968 to 1980) at the time of their run-in with the NCAA. PSU has been on the national radar for 50 years. PSU football will recover as did USC overcome the Reggie Bush fallout.
5mn, SMU was a relative flash-in-the-pan (no bowl appearances from 1968 to 1980) at the time of their run-in with the NCAA. PSU has been on the national radar for 50 years. PSU football will recover as did USC overcome the Reggie Bush fallout.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
the only superior joepa had in PA was christ almighty himself (and even that i'm not so sure of...)
the only superior joepa had in PA was christ almighty himself (and even that i'm not so sure of...)
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
A far better source than Wiki is the movie "Pony Excess", part of ESPN's brilliant "30 For 30" series of documentaries. If you watch that movie, and listen to the comments from interested parties including the NCAA, it seems pretty clear that the death penalty option is truly that. You just start over and maybe 25 years from now you win some minor bowl game. Had they leveled the death penalty on PSU's football team, once it started back up it would literally be in the exact position it's hockey team is going to be in.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
I think the conclusions of the report speak for themselves, as do most people. If you want to continue wearing the blinders and incorrectly thinking that Paterno is infallable, go right ahead. You'll be right there with all the fools in Happy Valley that also still feel the same way.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
Please, do tell me what evidence in the report supports the conclusion. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
http://www.johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=220
Powers &8^]
Please, do tell me what evidence in the report supports the conclusion. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
http://www.johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=220
Powers &8^]
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
Well, I'm sold. Some right-wing nut with a blog says Paterno's innocent. And don't forget to check out his book on how the media treated Sarah Palin!
Well, I'm sold. Some right-wing nut with a blog says Paterno's innocent. And don't forget to check out his book on how the media treated Sarah Palin!
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
You suck at reading. I was talking about the conclusions, not what there is to back them. I tend to believe the conclusions of a guy like Freeh, who is, by all accounts, a class-act investigator. It is in his conclusions, so that is what I care about.
Re: Any chance the Penn State scandal has an impact on hockey?
To me, it's a whole lot more likely that he was just too smart or too old(school) to use email.
Yeah - I mean, the guy was barely involved in the day-to-day running of PSU football. He had such little influence that it's totally credible to suggest that everyone around him would have just unilaterally made decisions without talking to him at all - he was just THAT unimportant to PSU football....
To me, it's a whole lot more likely that he was just too smart or too old(school) to use email.