2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

[psych]

I’m not going to call anyone a fatalist. I think NDHockey has stated he’ll vote for Biden no matter what. That’s all we need. In reverse, I’d vote for any Democrat over Donald Trump, even if it was Al Franken coming off the sidelines lol.

 

[Handyman]

Here's the question:

How does Dumpy getting shot sway someone who is on the fence? How does it flip a voter?

Reality in the world we live in is that it doesn't.

Dump doesn't get sympathy and he isn't using the attempt on him to push a specific point in his agenda ( like if he used it to emphasize an anti-gun stance for example). He's not even using it to strengthen his "Back the Blue" narrative that R's love.

So again, how do the events of the last week move voter's around?

I asked that same question and never got an answer. I bet he and his cronies though will say "Black People like me better now because I got shot like they do!". (only partially kidding)

See for some they forget two things can be true:

1) It sucks someone took a shot at a presidential candidate

2) That candidate is straight trash

A decent percentage in the Morning Consult poll that identified as GOP (like 18% or so) said Trump was to blame through his rhetoric.

I have asked many times in the last few days...which part of the Dem tent are going to switch because Donnie got a booboo? We know the Black vote is still strong with him (probably the strongest base he has) and women aren't going to give up their rights because of it...and seeing as they are talking about deporting millions (said it again last night!) of immigrants I don't see many non-Cuban Latinos flocking to him either no matter how many ads he does in Spanish. Progressives would never touch him nor would Liberals...and Centrists care too much about Wall Street working to risk letting his trash plans crash the economy. So who is left?

The argument seemed to be Independents would be swayed...but they never liked his rhetoric so I would bet the majority think he FAFO. Even if they were on the fence, I highly doubt what they are seeing at the RNC is making them think "now that is an agenda I can get behind!". I am just not seeing how the calculus works. If the Dems just stop airing their dirty laundry in public (hey Adam Schiff...STFU!) a lot of people will, even begrudgingly, end up voting for the better of the two men even if he sometimes sounds super old. Ask the NAACP how old he looked when he crushed a speech there recently they don't care that he has a bad gait over a broken foot he wouldn't let heal right or cause he stutters. They care that he takes pride that he worked under the first Black President and works with the first Black Vice President.

 

[Handyman]

I’m not going to call anyone a fatalist. I think NDHockey has stated he’ll vote for Biden no matter what. That’s all we need. In reverse, I’d vote for any Democrat over Donald Trump, even if it was Al Franken coming off the sidelines lol.

I believe on Saturday he said Trump would win a Reagan like election...if he is going to do what he says about voting in Ohio I dont care how fatalist he gets. GOTV is important and helping Elias and Co. end the gerrymander there could be huge in the future.

 

[Bronco]

Here's the question:

How does Dumpy getting shot sway someone who is on the fence? How does it flip a voter?

Reality in the world we live in is that it doesn't.

Dump doesn't get sympathy and he isn't using the attempt on him to push a specific point in his agenda ( like if he used it to emphasize an anti-gun stance for example). He's not even using it to strengthen his "Back the Blue" narrative that R's love.

So again, how do the events of the last week move voter's around?

I don't think it gets any new voters, but it could get likely Trump voters to the poll, where otherwise they might not have the motivation. I don't see it getting new voters because you need to be a sympatheic character to get sympathy.

 

[jericho]

Maybe Trump chose Vance because he only had to reprint two letters on the campaign signs.

 

[Kepler]

Trump is like a Cornell forward.

Let's hope not.

 

[Handyman]

Maybe Trump chose Vance because he only had to reprint two letters on the campaign signs.

That joke has been all over social media...pretty hilarious.

 

[Handyman]

So I went against my own advice and watched a clip of MSNBC cause I wanted to see how they discussed Biden's COVID. Joy Ann Reid said she has talked to members of the Congressional Black Caucus and they believe that all of this is a concerted effort by some to not just oust Biden but have an open convention and replace Harris too. Basically put the people they want to run in 2028 in place now. They said they would only support replacing Joe is if Harris gets the job.

I hate to say it but I think they cut a deal...

Meanwhile at the RNC had a few Senators chase down and confront the head of Secret Service...

 

[Handyman]

Trump fell asleep again...

 

[jericho]

That joke has been all over social media...pretty hilarious.

I avoid anything to do with politics on social media (except here) so here I am thinking I was being clever. Thanks for letting me know I’m not.

 

[psych]

Politico Playbook wants me to know Pelosi is the one controlling pushing Biden out. So, Nancy, Biden steps aside, what’s the step-by-step plan for replacing him? How does that person quickly get on the ballot in every state? Do they campaign on “I’m not old?” instead of their few, if any, accomplishments? Show me the evidence, the actual evidence, Biden is dragging down Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin. I see her up 8-10% and at the 50% mark or higher in public polls. Show me Rosen behind in Nevada. I see her ahead 2-4% and above 45% in most polls. Show me Casey struggling in PA. He’s ahead 10-15% in most polls and above 50%. I’m a well-informed voter. “Show me the money” with your plan to push Biden out, or shut up.

 

[Slap Shot]

Well, you seem to think that people should care that this guy was killed, and that sounds like you think people should give a ****.

Look, I'm not taking pleasure in his death, like the MAGAts would the death of a liberal, but to paraphrase his cult leader, the guy knew what he signed up for. They want Civil War. Well, people get killed in wars, even the ones on your(his)side. Be careful what you wish for.

Good Lord you're smarter than this. I didn't say anyone should care about the guy - I said it's pathetic to say he had it coming or whatever else was said.

___

Anyway all these leaked reports of high-ranking Democrats including Pelosi and Schumer demanding Biden step down are a bit concerning.

 

[psych]

Then show us the plan. “We need to get rid of Biden” doesn’t mean sh-t to me. Show me the polls, make them public! You’ve already given the media the masturbation frenzy it wanted over making it public you want Biden stepping down, so it’s not like releasing these polls showing Baldwin losing in Wisconsin, or Casey being dragged down by Biden, or the Democrats losing the House by more than they would with another candidate, are going to damage Biden anymore than he’s already been damaged by this drip-drip-drip bullsh-t. If this was Nancy’s grand plan, she’s honestly done a terrible fu-king job. Way too unorganized with no clear succession.
What’s insane is Trump got shot on Saturday, we as a country think almost nothing of it, because we’re already back to talking about replacing Biden. We spent what, 48 hours in the media on Trump getting shot, and going on 3 weeks of Biden needing to step down? Gun violence…normalized in America.

 

[Slap Shot]

I would feel better if they publicly denied the reports.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

I believe on Saturday he said Trump would win a Reagan like election...if he is going to do what he says about voting in Ohio I dont care how fatalist he gets. GOTV is important and helping Elias and Co. end the gerrymander there could be huge in the future.

I am absolutely doing what I say I am doing. Last year I registered about a hundred people to vote in Ohio and so far this year I am at about 75. For one thing its part of my profession, and I have a few more years of work left in me before I retire. For another thing, no matter how "fatalistic" I may be about our chances in November, I believe in doing my part to the complete extent I can. I challange every single person here to make a plan to do everything they can to get their like minded-friends and family out to vote. If we actually got OUR voters out there to vote, we'd be the ones winning landslide elections.

So do it. Have the uncomfortable conversations. Make sure people understand the consequences of sitting this election out or voting for phony tough republicans will have and how they are much worse than other elections in their lifetimes. Make your plan to vote, and then make your plan on how to get other people in your life to vote.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Yup ... it's you guys, always has been, and probably always likely will be ...

Hey! Are Those Bullets in Your NPR Tote? - Ann Coulter

If you were worried that liberals would tone down the apocalyptic rhetoric about Donald Trump after Saturday’s assassination attempt — He’s an existential threat to democracy! a fascist! an aspiring dictator! an authoritarian! Hitler! — you can rest easy.

Apparently, the left has concluded that the best way to avoid political violence in the future is to ratchet up their dire warnings about the end of democracy presaged by a second Trump presidency. (That’s almost as good as their plan to lower deficits by spending more.)

Two days after the shooting, Vox announced in a headline, “Yes, it’s still fair to call Trump a threat to democracy.”

President Joe Biden agreed, telling NBC’s Lester Holt, “How do you talk about the threat to democracy, which is real, when [Trump] says things like he says.” (Otherwise, it was a great interview except that the president kept calling Lester “Bryant.” Amazingly, it’s necessary to add: That’s a joke.)

MSNBC’s Joy Reid called Trump “the greatest purveyor and promoter of political violence, really, since anyone can remember.” Pro tip for Biden defenders: Maybe don’t bring up people’s ability to remember things.

I’m not sure how to measure who the biggest “purveyor and promoter of political violence” is, but I can do a body count. And when it comes to political violence, the left beats the living daylights out of the right, so to speak,

Granted, we’re only 248 years into this experiment, but so far, every single shooting of a national politician in the U.S. has been committed by a person on the left — or someone even more deranged than a liberal.

A few would-be assassins were simply delusional nuts. Richard Lawrence, for example, was a house painter who thought he was King Richard III of England. He tried to shoot President Andrew Jackson because he thought the United States owed him money.

The rest were political activists who may have been crazy enough to be left-wingers but were not so crazy as to believe they were King Richard III.

Democrat, actor and peace activist John Wilkes Booth shot President Abraham Lincoln on April 14, 1865, because, as he explained in a letter to his family, he loved “peace more than life.” (But he really wanted to direct.)

Charles J. Guiteau, who shot President James Garfield in 1881, had a long relationship with a utopian commune, the Oneida Community, where free love and communal child-rearing were practiced — and this was before Hillary Clinton’s “It Takes a Village”!

Leon Czolgosz, who killed President William McKinley in 1901, was a socialist and anarchist inspired by socialist radical Emma Goldman.

Giuseppe Zangara plotted to kill both Republican President Herbert Hoover and President-elect Franklin Roosevelt, intending to assassinate “all capitalist presidents and kings.” He just missed Roosevelt, killing Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak instead.

Lee Harvey Oswald, who shot President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 22, 1963, was a stone-cold communist since reading Communist propaganda as a teenager. He moved to the USSR, and when his application for Soviet citizenship was denied, slit his wrists. He then moved with his Russian wife and child back to the U.S., planning to move to Cuba and biding his time passing out “Fair Play for Cuba” leaflets.

Inspired by Communist and Socialist Party literature, Oswald first tried to kill Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker, a John Bircher; then former Vice President Richard Nixon; and finally did kill President Kennedy — or so the mafia and the CIA would have us believe!

Upon his arrest, Oswald immediately called John Abt, lawyer for the American Communist Party, saying he wanted Abt to defend him so he could use the trial to showcase his Marxist beliefs.

Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, who shot at President Gerald Ford in 1975, was part of Charles Manson’s countercultural hippie cult. She pulled a gun on Ford because she was upset about the plight of the California redwood — which put her on the shortlist for aMacArthur “genius” grant. Sadly, a woman has to do twice as much as a man …

Seventeen days later, Sara Jane Moore tried to kill Ford because, she said, “the government had declared war on the left.”

(Remarkably, these two assassination attempts on her husband didn’t lead Betty Ford into any sort of self-destructive behavior, thank goodness!)

In the entire history of the nation, only two senators and two congressmen have been assassinated. Three of the four were killed by “progressives” for political reasons.

The first member of Congress to be assassinated was Republican James M. Hinds of Arkansas. He was killed in 1868 by secretary of the Democratic Committee of Monroe County George A. Clark.

Sen. Robert Kennedy was killed on June 5, 1968, by Sirhan Sirhan, a Palestinian extremist angry with Kennedy for his support of Israel. (Luckily, that was the last recorded incident of extremist political violence by a Palestinian ever since, as far as I know.)

The most recent assassination of a member of Congress was in 1978, when Rep. Leo Ryan was killed by members of Jim Jones’ left-wing cult in Guyana.

There are other, less homicidal comparisons to be made.

No conservative has ever run at a secretary of State, waving bloody hands in her face (Code Pink’s Desiree Anita Ali-Fairooz at Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice when she was testifying before Congress).

No conservative has ever hit a Democratic politician in the face with a stupid sign, or attacked him as he mowed his lawn, breaking his ribs. (GOP Senate candidate Rand Paul in 2010; and again Sen. Paul in 2017).

No conservative has ever sneaked into a Democratic National Convention and heckled the speaker (Obama bundler Jodie Evans at Sarah Palin during the 2008 Republican National Convention).

No conservative has ever shot up the Democratic congressional baseball team to protest a Democratic president, as a Trump-hating Bernie Sanders supporter did to Republicans in 2017 (James T. Hodgkinson, wounding five, Rep. Steve Scalise critically).

Before you start wailing about how we “almost lost our democracy on Jan. 6,”that was the only right-wing mob violence in U.S. history. And we’ll never hear the end of it. Your grandchildren will be in nursing homes and Jan. 6 will still be at the top of the news feed.

Pretty weak tea, compared to the epic violence exhibited the previous year by BLM protesters, ginned up by the police-hating media.

Jan. 6 carnage: One person died — protester Ashley Babbitt, who was killed in cold blood by a black Capitol Police officer for trespassing; and $2.7 million in property damage.

BLM carnage: 25 deaths, thousands of injured law enforcement officers, hundreds more hospitalized, $2 billion worth of property damage, and torched stores, neighborhoods and police precincts.

Liberals accusing the former president of inciting political violence is factually incorrect, deeply ironic and slightly silly. (Other than that, good point!) Trump needs to hear Biden’s thoughts on political violence like he needs another hole in the head.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Something that I feel gets overlooked when analyzing things between now and November:

Society has forced people to make a choice one way or another for probably 90%+ of society. There really aren't that many people left that don't have a strong opinion one way or another.

This election is going to come down to turnout. Specifically how may women and minorities within swing states can get out to the polls and check the Blue box. Trump has his number in the bag. There is very little he can do to lose it. And I really don't think there are many MAGAs that are NOT registered. (Although in my personal sphere, I can count 3-4 "I don't vote cause of ____" MAGAs. Is there still meat left on that particular bone?)

My uneducated self really thinks one of the best moves that the Dems could make would be to follow Bill Clinton's playbook and make a strong push on college campuses and work on the under 28 crowd.

But overall this is a contest of just getting people out to the polls. And making sure everyone's voice gets heard. If that is the case, the D's roll.

 

[psych]

I would feel better if they publicly denied the reports.

Too late for that. Cat’s out of the bag. They didn’t want to deny it publicly. They’ve let it drip-drip-drip since the debate ended. This is where Fetterman’s “grow a spine or grow a pair” comment comes into play. Either grow a pair and everyone publicly tell Biden to GTFO while presenting plan B, or shut the fu-k up and get behind Biden. The middle ground they’re walking is the worst option of the three.

 

[rufus]

Too late for that. Cat’s out of the bag. They didn’t want to deny it publicly. They’ve let it drip-drip-drip since the debate ended. This is where Fetterman’s “grow a spine or grow a pair” comment comes into play. Either grow a pair and everyone publicly tell Biden to GTFO while presenting plan B, or shut the fu-k up and get behind Biden. The middle ground they’re walking is the worst option of the three.

And....typical Dem wussiness.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I just love all the false equivalency BS, and how the supposed "liberal' media just eats it up. He's a convicted felon. He's a rapist. He tried to steal an election.

There is no fucking equivalency. Anyone who says there is is an idiot.