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2019-20 D1 Scores

Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

robertearle said:
I say it every time: there is no 'penalty' to a penalty shot.

All they do is give you back the opportunity you had taken away. "We caught you robbing a bank, and as a penalty, we're going to make you give the money back."

It should be that you get the shot: if you score, that's it, play on; if you don't score, you get a two-minute power-play as the penalty.

As it is now, given the choice, I'll take the power-play and forget about the 'penalty shot'.
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I would agree. Seems like it really isn't a penalty with just the shot. I would also take the 2 minutes advantage as well.
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

robertearle said:
As it is now, given the choice, I'll take the power-play and forget about the 'penalty shot'.
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I don't know....on a penalty shot you are guaranteed a quality scoring chance. On the PP, you may never get a quality scoring chance. To me a guaranteed one is better than a potential zero. Years ago before shootouts, I'd say the shooter had the advantage, now days I think the goalie does, but I'd still take the penalty shot.
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

I found this online somewhere -- the number are for the NHL:

<img src="https://i.stack.imgur.com/AVqd7.png">

I would also add that given that college rules allow you to get a power play after you score on a delayed penalty, there's an interesting case to be made to give a team a power play if their penalty shot fails (i.e. to be punitive). I think that's a pretty extreme penalty, but there's a case.
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

TonyTheTiger20 said:
I would also add that given that college rules allow you to get a power play after you score on a delayed penalty, there's an interesting case to be made to give a team a power play if their penalty shot fails (i.e. to be punitive). I think that's a pretty extreme penalty, but there's a case.
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So if the attacking team regains control of the puck and scores on the delayed penalty after the trip (or whatever), they would get a penalty shot, and if unsuccessful, two minutes of PP? I'm not buying the logic that this is such an advantage to the penalized team the way it currently is, especially given that your table shows a substantial conversion increase of a PS over a PP.
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

ARM said:
. . .a substantial conversion increase of a PS over a PP.
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I’m surprised that the women’s conferences don’t have similar stats available for what appears to be a given. But I have a question for you guys: isn't it strictly hypothetical that a penalty meriting a penalty shot could be delayed? Does this ever happen? I ask because I think of a PS in terms of attempted solo breakaways or one-on-one take-downs, with possession after the fact not being an issue. Whistles are pretty quick here, no?
 
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Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

thirdtime's . . . said:
But I have a question for you guys: isn't it strictly hypothetical that a penalty meriting a penalty shot could be delayed? Does this ever happen? I ask because I think of a PS in terms of attempted solo breakaways or one-on-one take-downs, with possession after the fact not being an issue. Whistles are pretty quick here, no?
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Yeah this was my first thought too -- has that ever happened where someone kept possession after a penalty shot takedown? I'm guessing that if it has happened, then in practice, the ref would treat it like a standard delayed penalty and not a penalty shot, since they don't call "Penalty Shot" until after the whistle and not during the delay anyway.

I'm thinking if a goal on the delay ever happened you would get the goal followed immediately by the 2 minute power play, with no penalty shot in there. If not, that's what I would argue for, both now and in the hypothetical of if you gave a power play after a missed penalty shot -- because I wouldn't give a penalty shot in the first place.

EDIT: I would be FASCINATED to know if there's every been a situation where someone has gotten taken down, kept possession, scored, and then given the delayed call "penalty shot" after scoring, since college has given the "And-1" penalty after a goal. I can't picture a ref calling that in practice even if that's the rule, but I'd be totally fascinated to know if it's happened.
 
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Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

I could be wrong but from a logical standpoint, isn't the penalty shot given because the scoring chance was taken away? Therefore if you score, that negates the need for the penalty shot?

And more questions... isn't a penalty shot called where there is termination to the play as it is disrupted or possibly the other team touches the puck, etc?
 
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Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

Timothy A said:
I don't know....on a penalty shot you are guaranteed a quality scoring chance. On the PP, you may never get a quality scoring chance. To me a guaranteed one is better than a potential zero. Years ago before shootouts, I'd say the shooter had the advantage, now days I think the goalie does, but I'd still take the penalty shot.
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I think it would great if they gave the team the choice of taking a penalty shot or a power play. It would add some suspense as we waited for the coach's choice and the post-game second guessing would be wonderful if a coach chose the PP and the team didn't score. As a coach I'd love it because, if the player who drew the penalty isn't a great shooter or isn't great under pressure (a penalty shot is definitely a pressure situation on both shooter and goalie), I might like my chances better with my PP.
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

Where I could most see the value in choosing a 2-minute penalty over a PS is something like the following.

Team A leads Team B by a goal with two minutes left in regulation, when Team A is assessed a minor. At the start of the resulting PP, Team A blocks a shot or steals the puck, breaks away, but is pulled down from behind. A PS is awarded.

Now in this case, I could see choosing to have Team B assessed a minor. That would effectively negate the existing PP for Team B. If Team A opts for the PS but doesn't score, then Team B still has the chance to tie it on the PP, with the option of an extra attacker at some point. The quandary for the Team A coach in that situation would come if the score was tied. Do you roll the dice and go for the win with the PS, knowing that if you don't score, Team B might win it with the PP? Or do you take the penalty instead, and try to get the game to OT or score 4 on 4?
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

Offsides Guy said:
I think it would great if they gave the team the choice of taking a penalty shot or a power play.
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The team does have that choice. From Rule 25 of the NCAA 2019-20 Rules & Interpretations:

25.1 Penalty Shot/Optional Minor Penalty - When any infraction of the rules calls for a penalty shot not involving a major, disqualification or misconduct penalty, the non-offending team shall be given the option of accepting the penalty shot or having a minor penalty assessed to the offending player. If, however, a major, disqualification or misconduct penalty is incurred with the penalty shot, the shot shall be awarded and the penalty for the prescribed infraction shall be assessed.
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Still Eeyore said:
The team does have that choice. From Rule 25 of the NCAA 2019-20 Rules & Interpretations:
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Thanks for that. I had no idea. I’m honestly surprised no one seems to take the PP option. Especially, as I said, when it’s not a strong shooter taking the PS. Could it be possible not all coaches know they have an option?
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

Offsides Guy said:
Thanks for that. I had no idea. I’m honestly surprised no one seems to take the PP option. Especially, as I said, when it’s not a strong shooter taking the PS. Could it be possible not all coaches know they have an option?
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I have seen the PS declined before, late in the game in just the situation ARM described (team is trying to kill clock late).

Actually (and this is unrelated) I once saw a goal awarded on the ice for someone getting hauled down while on a breakaway to an empty net. Until that point I didn't know that was a rule -- it remains the first and only time I've ever seen a team score without having to actually score.
 
Re: 2019-20 D1 Scores

Still Eeyore said:
UMD 1, Wisconsin 0 after a period. The Gadgets had 2 shots in the period.
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WATT the hell is going on?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??! 2 SOG? Thinner. I need thinner.
 
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