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2015-2016 Coaching Changes

pokechecker said:
this thread continues to prove why they are coaching, and you are not

the truth is, after MN takes the pick of the litter, and UND (seemingly having second dibs) & WI (only a few) grab the other quality recruits, there is precious little left in the way of premium recruits, (with a few exceptions like this years UMD class, last years Bemidji & MSU-M) most of the players who go east do so seemingly because they figure they may as well get the maximum bang for the buck having been passed over by the school they really wanted to go to, but some end up coming back home.

Every school would do well to shop the best players from EVERYWHERE (Local, US, Canada, Europe) for example what's her name in Duluth says she will recruit MN, I'm assuming she will continue to grab the best that will come from Canada & Europe and maybe use her experience out East to grab a few US players as well, if she wants to compete at the year end tourney. This is how UMD, SCSU & MSU-M men's program have done well, not to forget perennial power UND
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To clarify, I don't think this guy is likely to do well with Canadians or players from anywhere on the globe. His track record speaks for itself. Dude seems to have a pretty awful reputation around the league -- talk to anyone who had a daughter or family member play for SCSU while he was running the show.
 
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Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

charlieconway said:
To clarify, I don't think this guy is likely to do well with Canadians or players from anywhere on the globe. His track record speaks for itself. Dude seems to have a pretty awful reputation around the league -- talk to anyone who had a daughter or family member play for SCSU while he was running the show.
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wouldn't it be better to talk to the actual players rather than their parents who are still likely under the illusion their little princess would have been the Patty Kaz winner if only one of the top programs would have been smart enough to have recruited her?

SCSU has only had a few years that they were competitive, all under Giesen, the guy isn't going to the bench boss at MSU-M, just the GoFer

so let's review what the brain trust doesn't like in an assistant:
intelligent, young female athletes from winning programs because they lack the experience
males with lots of practical experience learned on the job because they don't have a degree
experienced older males with lots of experience coaching

so what does the USCHO brain trust see as the ticket for being an assistant?
 
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pokechecker said:
wouldn't it be better to talk to the actual players rather than their parents who are still likely under the illusion their little princess would have been the Patty Kaz winner if only one of the top programs would have been smart enough to have recruited her?

SCSU has only had a few years that they were competitive, all under Giesen, the guy isn't going to the bench boss at MSU-M, just the GoFer

so let's review what the brain trust doesn't like in an assistant:
intelligent, young female athletes from winning programs because they lack the experience
males with lots of practical experience learned on the job because they don't have a degree
experienced older males with lots of experience coaching

so what does the USCHO brain trust see as the ticket for being an assistant?
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Personally I like the up-and-coming, young former players over a guy who would certainly get cut from my beer league team.

But I'm one of the few who didn't scream when UMD announced their hires.
 
charlieconway said:
Personally I like the up-and-coming, young former players over a guy who would certainly get cut from my beer league team.

But I'm one of the few who didn't scream when UMD announced their hires.
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Charlie, I like you!

Heck, peckerchecker would have been a better choice than the fat former gymnast and I think it's pretty obvious how I feel about peckerchecker and his infantile and ignorant opinions.
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

pokechecker said:
so what does the USCHO brain trust see as the ticket for being an assistant?
Click to expand...

I'll ignore most of the usual rant and bite on the last bit. I would argue that the makeup of the entire coaching staff is what should be observed, not an individual asst. Generally, assuming there are 3 staff members (some schools may have the luxury of more), you want a Head Coach, senior/lead Assistant coach, junior Assistant Coach. Off the top of my head, I'd say an ideal D1 coaching staff (if there is such a thing) looks something like:

- Head Coach - Demonstrated success at the D1 level (or maybe the D3 level) that extends over at least 5 prior consecutive seasons, background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar academic/athletic environment), demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs, deep ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success integrating with school administrative functions (admissions, financial aid, athletic department, finance, faculty/academic community, etc.)

- Lead Assistant Coach (or Associate Head Coach or similar) - Demonstrated success as an Assistant Coach at the D1 level (NOT the D3 level for this one) or prior Head Coach D1 experience, background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar environment), ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs.

- Junior Assistant Coach - Demonstrated success as an Assistant Coach at the D1 or D3 level (possibly as a Graduate Assistant), background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar environment), ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs. I wouldn't take a newly graduated player - I believe new graduates should start coaching at the D3 level - personal preference.

Across the staff I'd look for some diversity of backgrounds - different schools played/coached at, different systems used (to provoke constructive discussion about best approach), different geographic origins (ideally a Canadien, an Easterner, and a Westerner) for recruiting purposes, differing ages with at least 1 40+ year old on staff (yes, it matters to some parents and even players to have a parental figure), and one coach with a longer term connection to the school as either a player or a coach (but not all three).
 
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HockeyEast33 said:
I'll ignore most of the usual rant and bite on the last bit. I would argue that the makeup of the entire coaching staff is what should be observed, not an individual asst. Generally, assuming there are 3 staff members (some schools may have the luxury of more), you want a Head Coach, senior/lead Assistant coach, junior Assistant Coach. Off the top of my head, I'd say an ideal D1 coaching staff (if there is such a thing) looks something like:

- Head Coach - Demonstrated success at the D1 level (or maybe the D3 level) that extends over at least 5 prior consecutive seasons, background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar academic/athletic environment), demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs, deep ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success integrating with school administrative functions (admissions, financial aid, athletic department, finance, faculty/academic community, etc.)

- Lead Assistant Coach (or Associate Head Coach or similar) - Demonstrated success as an Assistant Coach at the D1 level (NOT the D3 level for this one) or prior Head Coach D1 experience, background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar environment), ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs.

- Junior Assistant Coach - Demonstrated success as an Assistant Coach at the D1 or D3 level (possibly as a Graduate Assistant), background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar environment), ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs. I wouldn't take a newly graduated player - I believe new graduates should start coaching at the D3 level - personal preference.

Across the staff I'd look for some diversity of backgrounds - different schools played/coached at, different systems used (to provoke constructive discussion about best approach), different geographic origins (ideally a Canadien, an Easterner, and a Westerner) for recruiting purposes, differing ages with at least 1 40+ year old on staff (yes, it matters to some parents and even players to have a parental figure), and one coach with a longer term connection to the school as either a player or a coach (but not all three).
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There isn't.
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

HockeyEast33 said:
Across the staff I'd look for some diversity of backgrounds - different schools played/coached at, different systems used (to provoke constructive discussion about best approach), different geographic origins (ideally a Canadien, an Easterner, and a Westerner) for recruiting purposes, differing ages with at least 1 40+ year old on staff (yes, it matters to some parents and even players to have a parental figure), and one coach with a longer term connection to the school as either a player or a coach (but not all three).
Click to expand...

You are mistaking pokechucker as someone who cares & wants to share opinion; he is not that. He is looking only for an argument, he will pick something in your reply and use it to go on an insulting rant & try to drag you down to his level. Just ignore him.
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

charlieconway said:
There isn't.
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Agree 100%, and this is definitely not an ideal coaching staff! There are better D3 staffs out there. In D1 hockey they are typically just called the 1st assistant and 2nd assistant coaches and much less frequently called associate head coach. They are never called lead assistant or junior assistant. And I believe it's Hockey Canada instead of Canada Hockey. I'm sure our neighbors to the north wouldn't like the error or the similarity to the name USA Hockey. Sorry to be picky but I thought I'd do it politely before peckerchecker spews his worthless garbage around. ;)
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

shelfit said:
Agree 100%, and this is definitely not an ideal coaching staff! There are better D3 staffs out there. In D1 hockey they are typically just called the 1st assistant and 2nd assistant coaches and much less frequently called associate head coach. They are never called lead assistant or junior assistant. And I believe it's Hockey Canada instead of Canada Hockey. I'm sure our neighbors to the north wouldn't like the error or the similarity to the name USA Hockey. Sorry to be picky but I thought I'd do it politely before peckerchecker spews his worthless garbage around. ;)
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well at least you were close

many would say that if you wanted to do it politely, you should have left off the last 6 words, but I guess it is difficult to reverse decades of behavior overnight

I'm sure Canadians are much relieved for your corrections, at least the ones like you anyway, I doubt the rest care

good to see you are all doing such a fine job of ignoring me, keep up the good work
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

shelfit said:
Agree 100%, and this is definitely not an ideal coaching staff! There are better D3 staffs out there. In D1 hockey they are typically just called the 1st assistant and 2nd assistant coaches and much less frequently called associate head coach. They are never called lead assistant or junior assistant. And I believe it's Hockey Canada instead of Canada Hockey. I'm sure our neighbors to the north wouldn't like the error or the similarity to the name USA Hockey. Sorry to be picky but I thought I'd do it politely before peckerchecker spews his worthless garbage around. ;)
Click to expand...

What D3 school has a better coaching staff (group of 3) then the qualifications I laid out? I'd be interested in hearing about that. As a starting point most D3 schools only have 2 coaches - head and assistant. The assistant almost always falls into the 2nd assistant coach (using your terminology) category (and many are not qualified for that level as I laid it out). And don't say Plattsburgh - Houle is obviously a great and qualified D3 coach but has no D1 experience I am aware of (and they are just not the same - ask Jim Plumer at UVM about that), but Blanchard (if she is still there) is only a 2nd assistant coach level qualification.
 
HockeyEast33 said:
What D3 school has a better coaching staff (group of 3) then the qualifications I laid out? I'd be interested in hearing about that. As a starting point most D3 schools only have 2 coaches - head and assistant. The assistant almost always falls into the 2nd assistant coach (using your terminology) category (and many are not qualified for that level as I laid it out). And don't say Plattsburgh - Houle is obviously a great and qualified D3 coach but has no D1 experience I am aware of (and they are just not the same - ask Jim Plumer at UVM about that), but Blanchard (if she is still there) is only a 2nd assistant coach level qualification.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to go so far as to say that MSU is looking up to D3 schools in terms of staff quality. That's a very aggressive take, and I have no idea if it's remotely true as the next D3 game I catch will be my first.

What I will say is that your description of an ideal coaching staff at the D1 level only exists in dream land. Having three experienced coaches from diverse playing and educational backgrounds, each with D1 success on their resume, pretty much doesn't happen. What you described was a staff with a head coach running the show, a head coach in waiting behind that and a potential future head coach playing third fiddle. Minnesota might be close, but just about everywhere else turnover and/or budget restrictions make fielding such a skilled staff nearly impossible. Beyond that, how many above average coaches do you think there are in women's college hockey? There's a ton of coaches in the game that are nothing more than clipboard holders.
 
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HockeyEast33 said:
I'll ignore most of the usual rant and bite on the last bit. I would argue that the makeup of the entire coaching staff is what should be observed, not an individual asst. Generally, assuming there are 3 staff members (some schools may have the luxury of more), you want a Head Coach, senior/lead Assistant coach, junior Assistant Coach. Off the top of my head, I'd say an ideal D1 coaching staff (if there is such a thing) looks something like:

- Head Coach - Demonstrated success at the D1 level (or maybe the D3 level) that extends over at least 5 prior consecutive seasons, background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar academic/athletic environment), demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs, deep ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success integrating with school administrative functions (admissions, financial aid, athletic department, finance, faculty/academic community, etc.)

- Lead Assistant Coach (or Associate Head Coach or similar) - Demonstrated success as an Assistant Coach at the D1 level (NOT the D3 level for this one) or prior Head Coach D1 experience, background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar environment), ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs.

- Junior Assistant Coach - Demonstrated success as an Assistant Coach at the D1 or D3 level (possibly as a Graduate Assistant), background that fits with the school (experience as player/coach in a similar environment), ties in the club/prep/USA Hockey/Canada Hockey communities, demonstrated success as a recruiter during prior coaching jobs. I wouldn't take a newly graduated player - I believe new graduates should start coaching at the D3 level - personal preference.

Across the staff I'd look for some diversity of backgrounds - different schools played/coached at, different systems used (to provoke constructive discussion about best approach), different geographic origins (ideally a Canadien, an Easterner, and a Westerner) for recruiting purposes, differing ages with at least 1 40+ year old on staff (yes, it matters to some parents and even players to have a parental figure), and one coach with a longer term connection to the school as either a player or a coach (but not all three).
Click to expand...
This type of criteria makes sense. The problem is the women's collegiate coaching body has never drawn up a set of these guidelines to present to their athletic directors as a way to give these men snd women some help in making hiring decisions. Nor has the coaching body itself draw up a set of criteria like this to guide their own hiring decisions with respect to expected credentials for assistant coaches. If the coaches themselves don't care about the product, why should anyone else? So you get what you get. Outside of a few bright spots, women's hockey is a very stagnant and mediocre product. People in athletics have big egos. AD's want to hire someone who they think they can control and the head coaches largely do the same. No one is looking out for the good of sports in my opinion.
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

HockeyEast33 said:
What D3 school has a better coaching staff (group of 3) then the qualifications I laid out? I'd be interested in hearing about that. As a starting point most D3 schools only have 2 coaches - head and assistant. The assistant almost always falls into the 2nd assistant coach (using your terminology) category (and many are not qualified for that level as I laid it out). And don't say Plattsburgh - Houle is obviously a great and qualified D3 coach but has no D1 experience I am aware of (and they are just not the same - ask Jim Plumer at UVM about that), but Blanchard (if she is still there) is only a 2nd assistant coach level qualification.
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I was saying there are better D3 staffs out there than the staff at Mankato, not your idealistic staff setup which doesn't exist anywhere. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough but you figured out my point anyway because there are only 2 paid hockey people as coaches in D3 hockey - the head coach and assistant coach (could be called the 1st assistant because many D3 teams have volunteer assistant coaches too). The addition of Giesen at Mankato means they also have 2 hockey people as coaches - Harrington and Dickerman (Vogt). This hire is a total liability to the program. They are now literally carrying deadweight.

Pretty sure Houle played D1 hockey and wasn't he an assistant coach for one of US women's teams in recent years? I guarantee he would excel and succeed as a D1 coach and there are other D3 staffs that are also excellent and would be preferable: Norwich, Elmira, Gustavus, River Falls, Middebury, and possibly one or two others.
 
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Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

FiveHoleFrenzy said:
Hopefully, the Colgate administration consulted with USCHO posters before making this decision. ;)
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well, I don't like her name, too hard to figure out the proper way to say it
it will be a distraction for sure and I am willing to bet the farm Colgate will not be in the final four this coming year

bad choice, just terrible, they should have checked with us first
 
Re: 2015-2016 Coaching Changes

crutch said:
Great Hire!!
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Umm..... what am I missing? Wasn't Maurice the guy who was let go along with Handrahan by Ohio State for inappropriate conduct (sexual harassment) which he condoned? In what world is this a "great hire" for Trinity? What does it say about Trinity's respect for its players?

Also - what is the deal with Ohio State and Trinity. First OSU hired Carson Duggan from Trinity as an Assistant. Then 2 years later they hired her replacement Jenny Potter as Head Coach. Now Trinity hires the fired OSU assistant as their Head Coach. What is the connection?
 
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