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2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMAA said:
Got it only half right. Pulling for the Maple Leaf and the Tre Kronor.
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You know how in NCAA hockey you're always pulling for somebody different to win? Well, I'm going to borrow from your "usual" line of thinking for this one and cheer for the Americans who haven't won gold in 16 years and the Swiss who have never medaled.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Spooner seems particularly sharp in Sochi. Not tremendously surprising to WCHA fan folks.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMAA said:
This is nothing new. The Finns have given the Americans and the Canucks fits on more than one occasion over the years. Clog up the middle, rely on stellar goal tending and look for a few breaks. The long and the short of it is that teams like Switzerland, Finland and Sweden keep it close on occasion based more than anything on stellar tending (Martin, Raty, Schelling). This is no different than the "Great Wall of China" leading the Chinese to the medal rounds in the 90's. The reality is that teams like Sweden, Finland, Russia etc, have a few great players, but no depth to challenge the two big teams. Play Canada or USA ten times and they may win one game.

Don't get me wrong, for the good of the game, would like teams like Sweden, Finland, Russia etc to be able to challenge more on a consistent basis. While the depth of number of teams behind the top two is greater today than four years ago, the gap to the top two has not really closed all that much. JMO.
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Well said and on point.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMAA said:
We actually agree. Bringing in top players from NA to teach and play against the players in country is part of the INVESTMENT that should be funded by those governing bodies. That was part of the point I made in an earlier post on the subject. Its a Win-Win-Win opportunity. Giving more NA college grads a place to play at a high level while getting compensated and hone coaching skills and helps to local nations to get better by having more top talent to help teach the grass roots and for the grass roots to look up to. It could also increase the pipeline of future players from Europe getting into the NA college system.
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I agree to a point with OnMAA and Eeyore. But there's one thing missing here. Investment will never happen until the CULTURE changes. As one who has "been there, done that" on this subject, I can say it's a cultural issue. It's just not that important to the country governing bodies. Over there most Olympic sports are government sponsored (for the most part). There's only so much ways to slice a pie. Over here we have a privately funded USOC and the individual sports are responsible for their own funding, receiving some assistance from the USOC, usually based upon metrics. In terms of European interest and support, women's ice hockey is way down the list and only really somewhat important once every four years. Don't forget, it wasn't so long ago that USA Hockey and even Hockey Canada were pretty uneasy with this whole "girls play hockey?" thing. Change comes very slowly, especially to the "old world." First and foremost, THEY have to really WANT it. That probably won't be tomorrow....or the next day either. Just my two cents.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

ARM said:
You know how in NCAA hockey you're always pulling for somebody different to win? Well, I'm going to borrow from your "usual" line of thinking for this one and cheer for the Americans who haven't won gold in 16 years and the Swiss who have never medaled.
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Touché. When it comes to international hockey would expect people to be patriotic.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMAA said:
This is nothing new. The Finns have given the Americans and the Canucks fits on more than one occasion over the years. Clog up the middle, rely on stellar goal tending and look for a few breaks. The long and the short of it is that teams like Switzerland, Finland and Sweden keep it close on occasion based more than anything on stellar tending (Martin, Raty, Schelling). This is no different than the "Great Wall of China" leading the Chinese to the medal rounds in the 90's. The reality is that teams like Sweden, Finland, Russia etc, have a few great players, but no depth to challenge the two big teams. Play Canada or USA ten times and they may win one game.

Don't get me wrong, for the good of the game, would like teams like Sweden, Finland, Russia etc to be able to challenge more on a consistent basis. While the depth of number of teams behind the top two is greater today than four years ago, the gap to the top two has not really closed all that much. JMO.
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I mostly agree. The gap between #1 and #3 is about where it was in 2002 & 2006. (the #2-#3 gap narrowed in 2006 but mostly from the US regressing, and that was a blip). The gap between #1/#2 and #3 then widened in 2010, but then returned to its usual level this year, but it has narrowed from 2010, and I wouldn't disregard the significance of reversing that trend.

In terms individual teams, Finland's gap is about where it was in 2002, but they regressed in between then and now; Sweden has obviously regressed since 2006; Switzerland & Russia have risen to be in the mix with those teams, and have hence narrowed their gaps with the top two.

One other thought: the Pool A/ Pool B format means that the bottom 2 in Pool A are in good position to improve through the tournament (e.g. the Swiss), but a team from Pool B that happens to break through into semifinals is more likely to be killed than in the old format because they've been playing weaker competition leading up to that point (e.g. the Swedes). This is what I expected beforehand, so I don't think I'm just reading too much into the actual outcomes here. Point is I don't think Sweden is really quite as awful as this game indicated.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I watched the Canada - Switzerland game yesterday, and I thought the Swiss did a pretty admirable job of making it an entertaining, if not edge of your seat game. Kudos to them for shoring it up in the second and third, and as always to Flo for a fantastic game in net. I hope they go home with a medal.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

It can't be all bleak at the short end of the hockey stick if the Swiss coach Kammerer is "happy to be disappointed," and Sweden's Leif Boork says "I think they [US and Canada] should go on being good so we have something to look up to," as reported in today's Boston Globe. Parity won't come until the rest of the world has something approaching the synergy of an American NCAA with the special brew of Canadian climate/culture (which may mean never), but in the meantime those who are in the game seem to be enjoying themselves.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

dave1381 said:
I mostly agree. The gap between #1 and #3 is about where it was in 2002 & 2006. (the #2-#3 gap narrowed in 2006 but mostly from the US regressing, and that was a blip). The gap between #1/#2 and #3 then widened in 2010, but then returned to its usual level this year, but it has narrowed from 2010, and I wouldn't disregard the significance of reversing that trend.

In terms individual teams, Finland's gap is about where it was in 2002, but they regressed in between then and now; Sweden has obviously regressed since 2006; Switzerland & Russia have risen to be in the mix with those teams, and have hence narrowed their gaps with the top two.

One other thought: the Pool A/ Pool B format means that the bottom 2 in Pool A are in good position to improve through the tournament (e.g. the Swiss), but a team from Pool B that happens to break through into semifinals is more likely to be killed than in the old format because they've been playing weaker competition leading up to that point (e.g. the Swedes). This is what I expected beforehand, so I don't think I'm just reading too much into the actual outcomes here. Point is I don't think Sweden is really quite as awful as this game indicated.
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Here is an interesting article. Good read overall comparing Women's hockey to other Winter sports dominated by a few countries. Examples brought up are Dutch in sppedskating, Austria and Swiss in Alpine, Norway in Cross Country, Russia in Pairs skating etc.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi..._with_olympic_womens_hockey_not_much_cox.html

The excerpt below pertains to this discussion:

"Two women’s semifinals on Monday, one in which the U.S. outshot Sweden 70-9 and beat the Swedes 6-1, and the other in which Canada defeated a game Swiss squad 3-1 in a contest that was nonetheless never in doubt, highlighted that the status quo in women’s hockey remains the same."
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

SeymoreHockey said:
Looks like Olympic Women's Hockey is here to stay...and I say GOOD. Now it's time for other nations to pick up the sport!!

http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/story/?id=444091
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Pierre McGuire (NBC hockey analyst), talked about this at length on his daily morning radio chat. He was also of the opinion that Women's hockey is there to stay, and that his sources (always credible) that are in the know backed this up.
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

onion.com/1nLhjxQ

It's a nice critique of chauvinism (though it could also be read as a critique of those overzealous in their criticism of chauvinism). Regardless, I don't agree with some points stated the article (regardless of whether their meant to be taken seriously or not).

I don't think women's sports attention in the Olympics suffers from a massive problem of chauvinism. That's the time when fans are most willing to pay attention to Olympic sports. Canada-U.S. women's preliminaries got more CBC viewers than the U.S.-Russia men's game, so Canadians are generally pretty open-minded when it comes to the kind of hockey they watch. People will pay attention to high-profile women's events like Olympics and Women's World Cup in soccer. It's everything else that's more the problem.

Actually, I think the average sports columnists covering women's hockey have been far more chauvinistic than their readership... though it's gotten much, much better recently, many more columnists defending women's hockey now.


And I don't see chauvinism as the primary obstacle to successful women's pro sports. Even if you were to eliminate it, you still face the problem of building a fan base and history against leagues that have decades of building a fan base and history.
 
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Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMaa, thanks for posting that article....it bothers me that in a society that feigns equality for all, an athlete the likes of Raty has to stop playing because she can't make a living while being the best!
 
Re: 2014 Sochi Olympic Games Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

OnMAA said:
Here is another great article about the "pending" Raty retirement:

http://thepinkpuck.com/2014/02/16/what-noora-ratys-retirement-says-about-womens-hockey/
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While I agree with the article's general thrust it makes a pretty egregious math error in comparing article quantity and it also loses a lot of credibility by insisting that there are many women's hockey players who would be successful in the NHL. As much as I might wish that were true it just isn't. That actually highlights why we need a professional league for women but it still makes the author sound clueless.
 
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