PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
Can't wait to hear the excuses now. This will be interesting.
Can't wait to hear the excuses now. This will be interesting.
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2013-2014 Schedules
- Thread starter VCMCUC
- Start date
NorthernBlight
Registered User
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
The only fallback available is a claim that the ECAC West league schedule is oh so impossible. It's a wonderfully circular argument that amounts to nothing more than "it is because I say it is"
The only fallback available is a claim that the ECAC West league schedule is oh so impossible. It's a wonderfully circular argument that amounts to nothing more than "it is because I say it is"
PSUChamps2001
Member of the REAL Zoo Crew
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
And as I proved before, the NCHA plays more NC games against the upper half of other leagues then the ECAC West does. So yes, while X is so tough because they play each other, the West HAS played more quality opponents outside their league then the ECAC West has. Also, I think their results in the NCAA's stand out just a smidge more then the ECAC West. The MCHA has also become much more respectable as well as the MIAC. Same question 10 years ago might bring a different story.
And as I proved before, the NCHA plays more NC games against the upper half of other leagues then the ECAC West does. So yes, while X is so tough because they play each other, the West HAS played more quality opponents outside their league then the ECAC West has. Also, I think their results in the NCAA's stand out just a smidge more then the ECAC West. The MCHA has also become much more respectable as well as the MIAC. Same question 10 years ago might bring a different story.
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
Okay, we have an actual schedule to post in this thread. Imagine that!
Though, this schedule is no surprise. It's just officially up on their website now.
Plattsburgh's schedule:
http://www.gocardinalsports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mhockey
Okay, we have an actual schedule to post in this thread. Imagine that!
Though, this schedule is no surprise. It's just officially up on their website now.
Plattsburgh's schedule:
http://www.gocardinalsports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mhockey
bakdraft21
Well-known member
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
, probably not until midway thru the season
lol..........well I figured I'd see the 2013-2014 roster up as well....................................................................................NOT
, probably not until midway thru the seasonRe: 2013-2014 Schedules
C'est la vie.
Darn, they moved the Classic to the new year. Miss the Alma Mater @ UVM.
C'est la vie.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
Nice to see some specifics here.
Reasonable minds can certainly differ on this subject, and this metric -derived via any formula- is clearly imperfect.
( ... But Utica looked pretty good in yours, just the same.)
Nice to see some specifics here.
Reasonable minds can certainly differ on this subject, and this metric -derived via any formula- is clearly imperfect.
( ... But Utica looked pretty good in yours, just the same.)
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
Not true. There is unarguably a body of reasonable data that points to that being the case, in the East.
I'd be interested to hear which Eastern conference was your pick as the toughest last year..?
Not true. There is unarguably a body of reasonable data that points to that being the case, in the East.
I'd be interested to hear which Eastern conference was your pick as the toughest last year..?
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
Speaking strictly in terms of SOS, it wasn't bad, but including Williams and Amherst was pretty iffy, IMO.
(Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but it's also important to win enough games, regardless of putative SOS, and M'bury didn't do that.)
I haven't pored-over the numbers in months, but IIRC, I had the top-tier in the East last year as being Norwich, Oswego, UC and Hobart (not in order ), with a tangible step down to the next flight of teams.
Speaking strictly in terms of SOS, it wasn't bad, but including Williams and Amherst was pretty iffy, IMO.
(Slightly off-topic, perhaps, but it's also important to win enough games, regardless of putative SOS, and M'bury didn't do that.)
I haven't pored-over the numbers in months, but IIRC, I had the top-tier in the East last year as being Norwich, Oswego, UC and Hobart (not in order ), with a tangible step down to the next flight of teams.
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
You honestly think Plattsburgh and Neumann are "a tangible step down" from Utica and Hobart?
My opinions:
- Regardless of records, over the last five years Neumann has clearly been the best team out of the ECAC-W. They always seem to be peaking at the right time of the season and without them the W would be considered a straight-up joke in NCAA tournament play.
- Amherst plays one of the best defensive systems in the Nation and could beat any team on any given night. I consider Cortland, Nichols, Salve Regina, and Naz to be "iffy," not a team that has success at the National level like Amherst (but I guess Utica proved beyond a reasonable doubt last season that Cortland is no cream puff, eh?)
- After looking over the schedules, I also think Elmira, Norwich, and Plattsburgh played tougher eastern schedules than Utica last season.
You honestly think Plattsburgh and Neumann are "a tangible step down" from Utica and Hobart?
My opinions:
- Regardless of records, over the last five years Neumann has clearly been the best team out of the ECAC-W. They always seem to be peaking at the right time of the season and without them the W would be considered a straight-up joke in NCAA tournament play.
- Amherst plays one of the best defensive systems in the Nation and could beat any team on any given night. I consider Cortland, Nichols, Salve Regina, and Naz to be "iffy," not a team that has success at the National level like Amherst (but I guess Utica proved beyond a reasonable doubt last season that Cortland is no cream puff, eh?)
- After looking over the schedules, I also think Elmira, Norwich, and Plattsburgh played tougher eastern schedules than Utica last season.
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
NU was 2-4 v. UC and Hobart combined, and Platty's common-opponent comparison against those two was not favorable. (Again, this is looking at results... Both PSU and NU certainly played strong schedules, as you imply.)
NU was 2-4 v. UC and Hobart combined, and Platty's common-opponent comparison against those two was not favorable. (Again, this is looking at results... Both PSU and NU certainly played strong schedules, as you imply.)
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
I agree that Platty and Neumann are not at all a "step down" from Hobart and Utica...but I have a hard time agreeing that Neumann has been "clearly" the best team in the ECAC-W over the past five seasons.
In conference play over the past five years, Elmira has been the dominant team in the ECAC-W - they won 4 straight RS titles before last year when Utica claimed the RS title over Hobart based on the head to head tie-breaker. Neumann’s RS record in the league over the past five years has been 33-26-10 (.550 win %)…hardly “dominant”. For comparison, Elmira’s record in league play over the same span has been 41-22-6 (.638 win %).
As far as “peaking at the right time"…the ECAC-W title has gone to four different teams over the past five seasons. I concede that the two league titles they won in ’08-09 and ’12-13, Neumann came on strong late in the season to take the LT. But two seasons ago it was Hobart that came on strong and absolutely dominated Neumann in the ECAC-W championship game, 5-0.
I also think it is a bit harsh to say that except for Neumann the ECAC-W has been a “joke” in the NCAA tourney. In the past ten D-3 NCAA tournaments, the ECAC-W has had 5 different teams make the final four a total of 7 times. (Elmira 2005-06 and 2007-08, Hobart 2005-2006 and 2008-09, Neumann 2008-09, M’Ville 2006-07 and Utica 2012-13). I concede that they only have one national title to show for it but “a joke”…really?
I agree that Platty and Neumann are not at all a "step down" from Hobart and Utica...but I have a hard time agreeing that Neumann has been "clearly" the best team in the ECAC-W over the past five seasons.
In conference play over the past five years, Elmira has been the dominant team in the ECAC-W - they won 4 straight RS titles before last year when Utica claimed the RS title over Hobart based on the head to head tie-breaker. Neumann’s RS record in the league over the past five years has been 33-26-10 (.550 win %)…hardly “dominant”. For comparison, Elmira’s record in league play over the same span has been 41-22-6 (.638 win %).
As far as “peaking at the right time"…the ECAC-W title has gone to four different teams over the past five seasons. I concede that the two league titles they won in ’08-09 and ’12-13, Neumann came on strong late in the season to take the LT. But two seasons ago it was Hobart that came on strong and absolutely dominated Neumann in the ECAC-W championship game, 5-0.
I also think it is a bit harsh to say that except for Neumann the ECAC-W has been a “joke” in the NCAA tourney. In the past ten D-3 NCAA tournaments, the ECAC-W has had 5 different teams make the final four a total of 7 times. (Elmira 2005-06 and 2007-08, Hobart 2005-2006 and 2008-09, Neumann 2008-09, M’Ville 2006-07 and Utica 2012-13). I concede that they only have one national title to show for it but “a joke”…really?
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Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
I agree, the ECAC W is a top notch league, but their play in the NCAA's aside from Neumann has been dismal. I admit, saying Neumann has clearly been the class of the league was partially just to get under Fish's skin (kinda like when he claims the skiing in CO is superior to where I am
.)
By contrast, 6 of the 7 teams in the NCHA last season have made the NCAA tournament in the last 5 years. 5 of those 7 schools have national titles under their belts in the last 20 years. Really no comparison. Too bad the complexion of that league has changed for next year, but hey, that's life...
I agree, the ECAC W is a top notch league, but their play in the NCAA's aside from Neumann has been dismal. I admit, saying Neumann has clearly been the class of the league was partially just to get under Fish's skin (kinda like when he claims the skiing in CO is superior to where I am
.)By contrast, 6 of the 7 teams in the NCHA last season have made the NCAA tournament in the last 5 years. 5 of those 7 schools have national titles under their belts in the last 20 years. Really no comparison. Too bad the complexion of that league has changed for next year, but hey, that's life...
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Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
I rarely agree with Fish, but two words come to my mind "Steamboat Springs"
(kinda like when he claims the skiing in CO is superior to where I am
I rarely agree with Fish, but two words come to my mind "Steamboat Springs"
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
I agree, they've got all that "Champagne Powder." Plus, everyone knows most all the 14ers are in Colorado, so that must be where the best skiing is.
One word comes to mind when I think of Steamboat, "Flat." But hey, as long as you're getting out there and having fun that's all that matters.
Sorry for the derailment, now back to the hockey talk and getting Fish fired up
I agree, they've got all that "Champagne Powder." Plus, everyone knows most all the 14ers are in Colorado, so that must be where the best skiing is.
One word comes to mind when I think of Steamboat, "Flat." But hey, as long as you're getting out there and having fun that's all that matters.
Sorry for the derailment, now back to the hockey talk and getting Fish fired up
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
There you go, and thanks for taking the time to look it all up.
As much as the little group of would-be experts/drinking-buddy synchophants on here hate to face the facts, the W does in fact eat it's young, and dine heartily on OOC fare, and that's fairly obvious... Ergo, you see mediocre in-conference records for most of the W (even as far as the champions' slates go) and a great W% v. every other conference.
Yeah, Champ, the W plays some awful teams OOC from most Eastern conferences, but it also plays the best of them. (This is D-3, and there are plenty of awful teams out there. Is there any way to duck all the awful teams, and still play a full schedule..? Nope.)
Everyone plays at least a few bottom-feeders annually, and many "elite" teams play many more than a few, every year, year-in and year-out, because they reside in a top-heavy conference.
On that note, if anyone out there thinks that Norwich, Platty, Bowdoin, Oswego, Babson, Amherst, Williams, et al could reasonably be inserted into the modern W, one team/one season at a time, and expect to survive that league to the extent of gaining a Pool C bid, I'd bet against any one of them accomplishing that feat in a given season. The bar is higher over here.
Just my opinion.
There you go, and thanks for taking the time to look it all up.
As much as the little group of would-be experts/drinking-buddy synchophants on here hate to face the facts, the W does in fact eat it's young, and dine heartily on OOC fare, and that's fairly obvious... Ergo, you see mediocre in-conference records for most of the W (even as far as the champions' slates go) and a great W% v. every other conference.
Yeah, Champ, the W plays some awful teams OOC from most Eastern conferences, but it also plays the best of them. (This is D-3, and there are plenty of awful teams out there. Is there any way to duck all the awful teams, and still play a full schedule..? Nope.)
Everyone plays at least a few bottom-feeders annually, and many "elite" teams play many more than a few, every year, year-in and year-out, because they reside in a top-heavy conference.
On that note, if anyone out there thinks that Norwich, Platty, Bowdoin, Oswego, Babson, Amherst, Williams, et al could reasonably be inserted into the modern W, one team/one season at a time, and expect to survive that league to the extent of gaining a Pool C bid, I'd bet against any one of them accomplishing that feat in a given season. The bar is higher over here.
Just my opinion.
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Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
(Do you live in Austria or Argentina, where they shoot the cannons off every morning at an ungodly hour...? I HATE that.)
As far as the US goes it's pretty hard to beat CO, but I haven't been everywhere, and never will.
I agree, the ECAC W is a top notch league, but their play in the NCAA's aside from Neumann has been dismal. I admit, saying Neumann has clearly been the class of the league was partially just to get under Fish's skin (kinda like when he claims the skiing in CO is superior to where I am
By contrast, 6 of the 7 teams in the NCHA last season have made the NCAA tournament in the last 5 years. 5 of those 7 schools have national titles under their belts in the last 20 years. Really no comparison. Too bad the complexion of that league has changed for next year, but hey, that's life...
(Do you live in Austria or Argentina, where they shoot the cannons off every morning at an ungodly hour...? I HATE that.)
As far as the US goes it's pretty hard to beat CO, but I haven't been everywhere, and never will.
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admiral0417
Registered User
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
You honestly don't think Norwich, Oswego or Plattsburgh could win the West and gain a Pool C bid ? Really ? Wow, now you're off the deep end !! Nothing like getting carried away by your team having a couple of good (not great) seasons. Remember, Utica is 3 years removed from being 8-14-4 (with 3 of those wins against LVC !!!). Wins something meaningful and perhaps your posts could be taken more seriously. I think you post these ridiculous things to "stir it up".
You honestly don't think Norwich, Oswego or Plattsburgh could win the West and gain a Pool C bid ? Really ? Wow, now you're off the deep end !! Nothing like getting carried away by your team having a couple of good (not great) seasons. Remember, Utica is 3 years removed from being 8-14-4 (with 3 of those wins against LVC !!!). Wins something meaningful and perhaps your posts could be taken more seriously. I think you post these ridiculous things to "stir it up".
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules
If you are talking winning in their FIRST season as a member, they might not. MOST teams are constructed to win their conference. Out of conference play, against top tier teams, tends to make them more "rounded". Give any of the teams mentioned above a couple years in the ECAC-W and they would be at the top more years than not. Give all of them 2 years, and one of them would win the conference many more times than not.
As an example:
The West (mid-west to you Prof) was regarded as a very physical conference, but in the mid-90's to early 2000's, was not seen as particularly fast. They seemed to suffer in frozen four games because of that. Then they recruited physicality AND speed, and their results are much improved.
Of course, if your statement is that you are cherry picking one team at a time for one season, then you could be correct.
If you are talking winning in their FIRST season as a member, they might not. MOST teams are constructed to win their conference. Out of conference play, against top tier teams, tends to make them more "rounded". Give any of the teams mentioned above a couple years in the ECAC-W and they would be at the top more years than not. Give all of them 2 years, and one of them would win the conference many more times than not.
As an example:
The West (mid-west to you Prof) was regarded as a very physical conference, but in the mid-90's to early 2000's, was not seen as particularly fast. They seemed to suffer in frozen four games because of that. Then they recruited physicality AND speed, and their results are much improved.
Of course, if your statement is that you are cherry picking one team at a time for one season, then you could be correct.