What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2013-2014 Schedules

Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

Blugold Hockey said:
I agree people could be a little nicer in here, but IMO I would have to say UW - Eau Claire played a tougher schedule. SNC played a tougher schedule. Quite a few teams in the West played as tough a schedule, but it's like everything else D3, you only really get to see the teams around you and that creates a lot of blind pride for (insert any team any of us cheer for here). SOS along with all of the other metrics used to try to create some kind of ranking / order are not and never will be accurate and hat's the only thing in D3 that is accurate in IMO.
Click to expand...

No doubt that Eau Claire had the best national SOS credentials, having played (and defeated) both Utica and Oswego, after OSU downed Norwich... The Blugolds beat the (slightly-arguably) top-three teams in the East, either in person or by proxy. They won the whole enchilada convincingly.

I really have no idea how anyone could compare East and West in D-3 during the RS- there is essentially no data available, as a general rule- but UWEC left no doubt whatsoever as to that metric via their performance in Placid in the FF.

I try to take great pains to confine my argument to the East, where the top regional teams *occasionally* meet each other. We know nothing about the Western teams out here; we very rarely see any of them.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

PSUChamps2001 said:
I think its more fun watching Fish bounce back and forth between what he/she deems factual one day and a farce the next. While he/she seems to think being a walking Webster dictionary makes him/her appear smart, his/her lack of comprehension makes him/her just simply laughable. Fish is that type that if you showed Fish a Ford truck, let Fish drive the Ford truck, let Fish inspect the Ford truck, show Fish the title which says Ford truck, but because Fish is a Dodge fan it must be a Dodge. Fish, much like Utica, doesn’t get out much and see DIII hockey, therefore Utica and the ECAC W IS the only show in DIII. The Fish who thinks he/she knows so much actually knows so little, which makes the game so much more fun.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your contribution, Champ, whatever you meant to say.

"Comprehend" this: Who in the East played a tougher schedule than Utica last year? (That's the central issue, just so you know... Do you understand that much? If not, I can look-up how to translate it into 5th grade English.)

I keep seeing your endless posts with nonsensical and skewed "stats", but you're really disappointing me with your continued failure to answer this simple question, which is at the very crux of the debate.

Man-up, grow a set already, and admit defeat. Then, you can sit back in your heavily-soiled recliner all day tomorrow and watch the cars spin around the track to your little heart's content. (And have one or two for me; I'm working.)
 
Last edited:
Fishman'81 said:
Thanks for your contribution, Champ, whatever you meant to say.

"Comprehend" this: Who in the East played a tougher schedule than Utica last year? (That's the central issue, just so you know... Do you understand that much? If not, I can look-up how to translate it into 5th grade English.)

I keep seeing your endless posts with nonsensical and skewed "stats", but you're really disappointing me with your continued failure to answer this simple question, which is at the very crux of the debate.

Man-up, grow a set already, and admit defeat. Then, you can sit back in your heavily-soiled recliner all day tomorrow and watch the cars spin around the track to your little heart's content. (And have one or two for me; I'm working.)
Click to expand...

Comprehend the fact I already have. Maybe if you'd spend more time reading instead of trying to be a ****** you would have seen it by now.
 
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

Fishman'81 said:
Thanks for your contribution, Champ, whatever you meant to say.

"Comprehend" this: Who in the East played a tougher schedule than Utica last year? (That's the central issue, just so you know...
Click to expand...
For starters ......
Framingham State
2W-19L-3T ....70GF - 127GA
 
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

I don't have to "try" to be an ********; it comes naturally... (You've probably figured that out already.)

So I guess maybe I missed something..? (Your posts haven't been very interesting, so I skim through them, at best).

Here goes, employing that bothersome logic again: Which Eastern school played a better schedule than Utica..? I can't seem to find your opinion here. Maybe I've missed something, but I doubt it.

You seem to forget that the only two programs in the SUNYAC that are consistently successful are OSU and Platty, and that they play the dregs of the SUNYAC each and every year. (Twice each, to boot.) Utica picks a low-hanging fruit on occasion from the SUNYAC, but they also get Oswego two times, and play in the W, where there are very few easy games.

There's no point in your being so angry that Platty has a lesser schedule than UC. All the Cards need to do is win more hockey games- even against bad competition - and they'll be fine. All they need to do is to beat the supposedly-lesser teams, nearly every time out, just as Utica does.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

Fishman'81 said:
I don't have to "try" to be an ********; it comes naturally... (You've probably figured that out already.)

So I guess maybe I missed something..? (Your posts haven't been very interesting, so I skim through them, at best).

Here goes, employing that bothersome logic again: Which Eastern school played a better schedule than Utica..? I can't seem to find your opinion here. Maybe I've missed something, but I doubt it.

You seem to forget that the only two programs in the SUNYAC that are consistently successful are OSU and Platty, and that they play the dregs of the SUNYAC each and every year. (Twice each, to boot.) Utica picks a low-hanging fruit on occasion from the SUNYAC, but they also get Oswego two times, and play in the W, where there are very few easy games.

There's no point in your being so angry that Platty has a lesser schedule than UC. All the Cards need to do is win more hockey games- even against bad competition - and they'll be fine. All they need to do is to beat the supposedly-lesser teams, nearly every time out, just as Utica does.
Click to expand...

Already shown you that the ECAC West plays more against the bottom half of the SUNYAC then the top, by far, and more games against the bottom half of leagues then top, by far. Next...

Low hanging fruit? Hows Cortland doing btw? The ECAC West is a below .500 team against the Top SUNYAC teams and other leagues so your point is what? How do you define consistent because Elmira was one of the bottom teams in DIII this year, Neumann use to get beat by double didgits each year, Hobart was a joke for years, Utica JUST made the NCAA's. Fredonia was a powerhouse, Geneseo has more NCAA Appearances then Utica, Plattsburgh and Oswego have won more NCAA games over the past few seasons then the ECAC West has, combined, even with their cream puff schedule against the lower half of DIII hockey. Of course you just want to go for last year, because this year if the ECAC West has a down year you will want to go back to a different year.


@ Morrisville, Morrisville, Cortland, @ Cortland, Potsdam, @ Potsdam, Fredonia, @ Fredonia, @ Skidmore > Morrisville, Fredonia, Elmira, Elmira, Nichols, Salve Regina, @ Cortland, @ WNE, @ Elmira, Naz, Naz, @ Naz


@ Gen, vs Midd, vs St.Thomas, @ Oswego, Norwich, Wesleyan, Amherst, @ Castleton, Midd, Williams, Oswego, @ Geneseo > @ Oswego, OSU, @ Hobart, Neuman, Hobart, Hobart, @ Neumann, @ Neumann, Amherst, @ Man, @ Man, Man

I'd love to see Utica play some of those "dregs of the SUNYAC" on the road. Oh wait that's right, Utica is a BELOW .500 team against the "dregs" of the SUNYAC since 04-05 on the road, go figure. Next....
 
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

I've just been reading this for a while and not commenting because sometimes it's more fun to watch a train wreck than be run over by one.

However facts about SOS:

The only thing that your league contributes to your OWP is the results of non conference games. As long as your league does not play an unbalanced schedule the variation from 0.500 for in league play is exactly 0. For every win by one of your league opponents in a league game, there is a counterbalancing loss by a different opponent. This means that leagues that play more in league games than others will automatically have a SOS value that is closer to 0.500 than those who don't.

What determines your OWP based on your league play is the winning percentage of the teams in your league against non-league competition. Period. These games make up a substantial part of your OWP. If you happen to have a lot of teams in your league that win lots of NC games your OWP will go up - this doesn't matter whether your league plays a lot of games against the good teams or bad team.

Leagues that play few conference games tend to play more non conference games against leagues that also play fewer non-confernce games - the reasons should be obvious. The effect of any differences in the strength of the leagues will be exaggerated by this effect, and tend to make teams in these leagues have OWP results that have much more variability from 0.500. The fact that the ECAC W plays only 15 league games, and the ECAC NE plays only 14 league games really comes into play here. It means that there is more up and down in the OWP from 0.500 for those two leagues, and if one league wins a lot of the games against the other, the effect should be obvious. OOWP puts something of a damper on this effect, but the NCAA only counts OOWP as 1/3 of the SOS metric. It should be more.

Those are the facts. Keep them in mind. Both sides are cherry picking from these facts.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

Nice post, Prof.

SOS is far from perfect, but it seems to sort-itself out fairly rationally by season's end.

Sometimes, the numbers don't seem to pass the sniff-test, but Utica has been playing a league that has done very well OOC recently, and them faring well vs. an OOC team that wins a ton of games doesn't hurt, either. (Thanks for scheduling Utica twice per year, OSU.)

Having said that, and having reviewed the top Eastern teams' schedules from last season (very briefly, of course), it's my opinion that UC's was second to none in the region. (Champ likes to play three-card Monte with the numbers, but I haven't seen him advance an opinion as to who played a tougher one.)

My respectful suggestion is this: if Champ or any other UC-basher can make a cogent argument against Utica's relative SOS vis-a-vis Oswego, Platty, Norwich, etc., please do so, and don't neglect to mention a specific team/schedule.

(Not holding my breath on that one... There just isn't the data to support it.)
 
Last edited:
Fishman'81 said:
Nice post, Prof.

SOS is far from perfect, but it seems to sort-itself out fairly rationally by season's end.

Sometimes, the numbers don't seem to pass the sniff-test, but Utica has been playing a league that has done very well OOC recently, and them faring well vs. an OOC team that wins a ton of games doesn't hurt, either. (Thanks for scheduling Utica twice per year, OSU.)

Having said that, and having reviewed the top Eastern teams' schedules from last season (very briefly, of course), it's my opinion that UC's was second to none in the region. (Champ likes to play three-card Monte with the numbers, but I haven't seen him advance an opinion as to who played a tougher one.)

My respectful suggestion is this: if Champ or any other UC-basher can make a cogent argument against Utica's relative SOS vis-a-vis Oswego, Platty, Norwich, etc., please do so, and don't neglect to mention a specific team/schedule.

(Not holding my breath on that one... There just isn't the data to support it.)
Click to expand...

I just did dummy...Id be embarassed at the data too no wonder you keep dodging it...

And thanks proof.
 
NUProf said:
I've just been reading this for a while and not commenting because sometimes it's more fun to watch a train wreck than be run over by one.

However facts about SOS:

The only thing that your league contributes to your OWP is the results of non conference games. As long as your league does not play an unbalanced schedule the variation from 0.500 for in league play is exactly 0. For every win by one of your league opponents in a league game, there is a counterbalancing loss by a different opponent. This means that leagues that play more in league games than others will automatically have a SOS value that is closer to 0.500 than those who don't.

What determines your OWP based on your league play is the winning percentage of the teams in your league against non-league competition. Period. These games make up a substantial part of your OWP. If you happen to have a lot of teams in your league that win lots of NC games your OWP will go up - this doesn't matter whether your league plays a lot of games against the good teams or bad team.
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding

Leagues that play few conference games tend to play more non conference games against leagues that also play fewer non-confernce games - the reasons should be obvious. The effect of any differences in the strength of the leagues will be exaggerated by this effect, and tend to make teams in these leagues have OWP results that have much more variability from 0.500. The fact that the ECAC W plays only 15 league games, and the ECAC NE plays only 14 league games really comes into play here. It means that there is more up and down in the OWP from 0.500 for those two leagues, and if one league wins a lot of the games against the other, the effect should be obvious. OOWP puts something of a damper on this effect, but the NCAA only counts OOWP as 1/3 of the SOS metric. It should be more.
Click to expand...

Yes it should. The reason why beating creampuffs and play other creampuffs doesn't make you a great team/league.

Those are the facts. Keep them in mind. Both sides are cherry picking from these facts.
Click to expand...

Im not so sure its cherrypicking, its more like a Mark Spence or Goldman brothers going in one on one from the torpedo bkue line and sliding one into the net.
 
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

JHC, with all due respect, your brain must be very seriously pickled...

OK, I have read your arguments, and they are not completely without merit, but there remains the fact that you're the one dodging the actual question here. Apparently, you lack the nuggets to respond with any specifics.

Yet, I'll try once again: I have UC tops in '12/'13 Eastern SOS, with Hobart 2nd...

Who. Do. You. Have. Already?

(Hope I spoke slowly enough, cement-head...)

Without your applying your considerable intellect in such a way as to make an argument for another team's schedule, all your prattle is just so much hot (and beery-odored) air.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

Fishman'81 said:
JHC, with all due respect, your brain must be very seriously pickled...

OK, I have read your arguments, and they are not completely without merit, but there remains the fact that you're the one dodging the actual question here. Apparently, you lack the nuggets to respond with any specifics.

Yet, I'll try once again: I have UC tops in '12/'13 Eastern SOS, with Hobart 2nd...

Who. Do. You. Have. Already?

(Hope I spoke slowly enough, cement-head...)

Without your applying your considerable intellect in such a way as to make an argument for another team's schedule, all your prattle is just so much hot (and beery-odored) air.
Click to expand...
I beg to disagree

My spreadsheet, which is close to the NCAA computations had the following (end of RS, not including playoffs). It's not sorted.
SOS
Norwich .5319
Utica .5409
Oswego .4903
Hobart .5308
Bowdoin .4733
Neumann .5228
Babson .5446
...
Middlebury .5558
....
Elmira .5552

OWP
Norwich .5294
Utica .5488
Oswego .4822
Hobart .5341
Bowdoin .4455
Neumann .5156
Babson .5561
...
Middlebury .5768
...
Elmira .5695
 
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

yeah, now that i look at Middlebury's schedule i would say it was harder than Uticas.


Plattsburgh X2
Norwich X2
Bowdoin X2
Babson
Williams X2
 
Re: 2013-2014 Schedules

OSU2010 said:
yeah, now that i look at Middlebury's schedule i would say it was harder than Uticas.


Plattsburgh X2
Norwich X2
Bowdoin X2
Babson
Williams X2
Click to expand...

and Amherst X2

and they played Bowdoin 3 times.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top